Car Clamper / Was I Right To Leave Him..

[lighterthief]

<wanders into thread>

<wanders away from thread, a sadder and wiser man>

 

[oddworld]

I'm not sure how I feel about this , I really love Dirty Santa though , he can come across abit at times but he has really supported me when I've needed it, so I know his heart is always in the right place and he does have strong views on alot of topics and will always do what he believes is right - for that I respect him.

However I dont agree with violence and on this occassion I think I would have at least called the police and then maybe left him to it. He could possibly die from his injuries and he dosnt deserve that just for being a clamper.

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

 

[dirtysanta]

I'm not sure how I feel about this , I really love Dirty Santa though , he can come across abit at times but he has really supported me when I've needed it, so I know his heart is always in the right place and he does have strong views on alot of topics and will always do what he believes is right - for that I respect him.

However I dont agree with violence and on this occassion I think I would have at least called the police and then maybe left him to it. He could possibly die from his injuries and he dosnt deserve that just for being a clamper.

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

 

[Dubversion]

me dim

you want to start reading properly!

care to elucidate, perhaps with reference to your post i quoted...

 

[LostNotFound]

He's worse than a murderer in my mind. But slightly better than a paedophile. About 54% in between.

 

[Kameron]

i fear that as ever you've completely missed the point of my post.

Could well have done; some might say that helping a man up so he can hit you again is pure stupidity. This is certainly turning the other cheek, just not in the sense of your post.

helping an injured man is mere common decency

I think that my reaction while I'm sure it would involve dialling 999 I don't think my support would include the human kindness please bleed on my jacket sort of deal. Civic duty and that would be it and I don't think I could bring myself to touch him unless that was the only way to save his life. Help comes in different levels and I'm really not sure I could bring myself to do much more than the minimum to satisfy civic duty which I believe is a higher bar than common decency but one that does not require me to make an emotional commitment which I think that human decency implies.

I also note a number of people who will apparently be urinating on Thatcher's grave and partying at her death have what I regard as inconsistent views on the subject of decency.

 

[Kameron]

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

Indeed.

 

[snadge]

care to elucidate, perhaps with reference to your post i quoted...

Originally Posted by Dubversion

do you really think that's a valid comparison?

My reply

No I don't, maybe you should "broaden" out that statement then instead of having a go at everyone that seems to grasp that it doesn't make DS a bad person.

note I agree with you about the comparison

nowhere did I accuse you of not grasping something.

the words may be easier to read if you wipe your spit off the monitor.

you also personally insulted me previously.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Sorry I've not read all five pages but my feeling is (and sorry if it's been mentioned) that you are no better than he his by not helping him. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

The problem with 'two wrongs don't make a right' is that it doesn't really wash when there's disagreement over what what's actually right.

If I abducted a clamper for wrongfully clamping my car and extorting money from me, before locking him in my cellar for a week, most people would say that's wrong. But if he got a 1 week prison sentence handed down by the CPS, I doubt those same people would say the state is wrong. The legitimacy of the action is manufactured.

So if in the case of the clamper, the state is unwilling or unable to punish miscreants, what's wrong with a bit of vigilante justice? (again, I'm not condoning the violence, only the inaction). In fact, if you're performing the offices of the state, you might even say that your behaviour was worthy...

 

[dirtyfruit]

I also note a number of people who will apparently be urinating on Thatcher's grave and partying at her death have what I regard as inconsistent views on the subject of decency.

Valid but is Maggie even human?

 

[PacificOcean]

The problem with 'two wrongs don't make a right' is that it doesn't really wash when there's disagreement over what what's actually right.

If I abducted a clamper for wrongfully clamping my car and extorting money from me, before locking him in my cellar for a week, most people would say that's wrong. But if he got a 1 week prison sentence handed down by the CPS, I doubt those same people would say the state is wrong. The legitimacy of the action is manufactured.

So if in the case of the clamper, the state is unwilling or unable to punish miscreants, what's wrong with a bit of vigilante justice? (again, I'm not condoning the violence, only the inaction). In fact, if you're performing the offices of the state, you might even say that your behaviour was worthy...

But the issue is not whether he should have got the shit kicked out of him in the first place, but whether the OP was right in leaving someone clearly in need of help.

Regardless, I don't agree with "The Sun" style vigilantism.

 

[likesfish]

She's A Lizard :d

 

[veracity]

I can't see any justification for this - legal or ethical.

I didn't say 'legally' or 'ethically' I said 'in my eyes'. I think to leave someone lying on the ground after being beaten up and not to offer any assistance is a terrible thing to do.

 

[JWH]

Im saying its perfectly visible on the dash.

But ... but ... iirc (and I am not interested enough to look it up), it's always been the case that tax discs and stuff have to be in the window on the passenger side, hasn't it? If the guy is ticketing you because your disc holder is soggy when it gets wet and you can't see it, and because you put the permit on the dashboard, then he might be being a dick to a degree, but he's entitled to.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to spend £2 on a decent holder and leave it in the window than to keep getting expensive tickets and stressing yourself out?

 

[Dubversion]

Originally Posted by Dubversion

nowhere did I accuse you of not grasping something.

you say that some people have grasped that what DS did doesn't make him a bad person. the implication therefore is that i have failed to grasp that, since i fail to see how it doesn't. do you see?

you also personally insulted me previously.

what did i call you? gimp or something? are you cut to the quick?

 

[Dubversion]

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

what a ridiculous comment.

my view would remain exactly the same. your point isn't a clear one, but let's assume that there was a suspicion this guy was a rapist. i'd have called an ambulance and the cops, rather than leave the guy in the gutter. or should i have gone the whole hog and given him an extra kick myself, just in case he WAS a rapist?

jesus.

 

[dirtysanta]

But ... but ... iirc (and I am not interested enough to look it up), it's always been the case that tax discs and stuff have to be in the window on the passenger side, hasn't it? If the guy is ticketing you because your disc holder is soggy when it gets wet and you can't see it, and because you put the permit on the dashboard, then he might be being a dick to a degree, but he's entitled to.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to spend £2 on a decent holder and leave it in the window than to keep getting expensive tickets and stressing yourself out?

The terms are that it should be visible at all times. It is. End of.

 

[Poi E]

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

So if someone had been tried and convicted, you'd leave them to bleed? Or help them?

 

[snadge]

you say that some people have grasped that what DS did doesn't make him a bad person. the implication therefore is that i have failed to grasp that, since i fail to see how it doesn't. do you see?



what did i call you? gimp or something? are you cut to the quick?

the implication is in your head.

still thought I would point out the abuse seeing how some people are so quick to report it.

 

[Wolveryeti]

But the issue is not whether he should have got the shit kicked out of him in the first place, but whether the OP was right in leaving someone clearly in need of help.

Regardless, I don't agree with "The Sun" style vigilantism.

DS claimed that his injuries were not lifethreatening, but your point of view is fair enough. I think its a matter of opinion rather than a principle - as in I don't know anyone who would treat everyone equally regardless of what shady stuff they've done, but some people have limits beyond which they think assessments of personal integrity should be ignored. Still don't think that makes him wrong though.

 

[Dubversion]

the implication is in your head.

jesus.

you said:

No I don't, maybe you should "broaden" out that statement then instead of having a go at everyone that seems to grasp that it doesn't make DS a bad person.

therefore, you're clearly stating that some people are 'grasping' (ie understanding, implying correctness) that what DS did doesn't make him a bad person.

it therefore follows that i have failed to do so.

do you see?

 

[Dubversion]

DS claimed that his injuries were not lifethreatening, .

how could he know that? concussion isn't visible, nor is broken ribs, nor are many other threatening conditions.

 

[veracity]

Anyway how do we know what the guy had done , I wonder if peoples views would be different if say he was found to have raped or injured a child for instance.

Well if you're going to follow that line of thought, best not to ever help anyone in distress - after all who knows what they've done?

Best to turn a blind eye then eh?

 

[snadge]

jesus.

you said:



therefore, you're clearly stating that some people are 'grasping' (ie understanding, implying correctness) that what DS did doesn't make him a bad person.

it therefore follows that i have failed to do so.

do you see?

look you fool, I grasp one thing, you don't think I'm right, that's fair enough.

I accept what you think about it, you think DS is wrong, fair enough, get on with it.

 

[PacificOcean]

Good lord, I dodged my TV licence once. I hope I don't need any help from some of you on here one day.

 

[on_the_fly]

Guess we should all call him Dr from now on !

 

[snadge]

jesus.

you said:



therefore, you're clearly stating that some people are 'grasping' (ie understanding, implying correctness) that what DS did doesn't make him a bad person.

it therefore follows that i have failed to do so.

do you see?

grasping doesn't mean correctnes or understanding you thicket, it means a tenous hold on something it can be used in a lot of contexts..

 

[Dubversion]

to grasp means understand in this context, snadge, as well you know. you've fucked this right up haven't you?

 

[liberty]

No matter who they were if they were hurt I would have helped

 

[snadge]

to grasp means understand in this context, snadge, as well you know. you've fucked this right up haven't you?

fair enough but I said some people, I never mentioned you at all.

Do you really have to have the last word this much.

If I follow your argument you are implying that I and the others who think that it doesn't make DS a bad person are wrong, that's moralising.