leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Textbook!
Canterbury Arms, Brixton to be turned into flats - planning application
- Thread starter colacubes
- Start date
Textbook!
Not my recollection at all in terms of his sense of inclusivity, but there ya go. Great pub though. Been going there for almost 15 years pretty much every week to watch United. I love Brian's unofficial 'commentary'And his hand crafted signs warning people not to use mobile phones and recommending how many pints per half they should consume.
Go in to watch United. You deserve banning.
Peanut Monkey
Flea-Bit of CHL.
So on the 'definitely going sometime' list we have the Canterbury and the Grosvenor, and then there's that question mark hanging over the Windmill. It really sucks.
What's the deal with the Windmill? Be gutted if that went, spent a lot of my younger years in there...
editor
hiraethified
All I've managed to extract from tip lipped folks involved is that it's been sold.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Good point.
Just checked there blog and there are not any proposals on it yet.
Looks to me that the developers are working with officers to produce a scheme. Makes sense from a developers point of view. This is pre application consultation. Which a sensible developer will agree to do. Looks like this development company know what they are doing. Does not mean I agree with scheme. Just that any objections need to be to the point.
So the application will be one where officers advise planning committee to approve.
As its a large scheme I will be interested to see what the "affordable" element will be in the planning application. That definitely will be worth commenting on.
The application for this site will give some indication of what the officers want to do with the rest of the site. Now that they cannot knock down the Rec and move it to the old car park/ ice rink site.
editor
hiraethified
I'll be along Thursday.
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/06/...s-into-40-apartments-exhibition-on-27th-june/
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/06/...s-into-40-apartments-exhibition-on-27th-june/
Landlord only has until August (unconfirmed). Some of my neighbours are saying demolition of the Canterbury Arms begins sometime in late August 2013. I think that is a bit quick and smells of bullshit but it does seem like a done deal.
I will also attend.
I will also attend.
my other half took a pic the last time we were in, dunno if it displays or not as my fascist workplace blocks such things..
my other half took a pic the last time we were in, dunno if it displays or not as my fascist workplace blocks such things..
I don't know if it's my browser but it doesn't display.
boy about town
Member
Can you explain your comment 'Fact is the whole step family are racist', so that I understand whom you are referring to.
Your reference that it's only the Police and passing trade from The Academy that keeps the pub afloat is ridiculous. The Police have not used the pub in numbers as in years gone by (and yes I will agree that for those reasons, some would feel uncomforable using the same establishment), the traditional Academy crowd (seasoned live music goers)have always used the pub because geographically it's the nearest, it has a forecourt, a large function room for more space etc. Speaking about the function room, christenings, Holy Communions, birthdays, anniversarys, funerals, club nights etc have had that facility over the years FREE of charge if you are known.
It is a community pub that has seen generations of families drink and party there, it is a proper boozer in every sense of the word and those families referred to as Canterbury Crescent alcoholics (well those that are still alive) will miss the pub enormously.
Perhaps i could have worded that post better. I withdraw the comments and apologise for the offence caused. I will leave the post unedited as a reminder of my own stupidity.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
What about a roof top bar? Brixton doesn't have one of those. Not properly high up anyway.
editor
hiraethified
I could request banging tunes by semaphore from the Barrier Block.
editor
hiraethified
FIrst floor?
Sorry, I went all American there. I meant ground floor.
editor
hiraethified
That was just about confirmed today although it may be some years before it happens.
Here's how the proposed development for the pub site looks:
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/06/...ans-unveiled-a-nine-storey-residential-block/
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Reasonably inoffensive and not too overbearing, IMO.
The "influence from surrounding buildings" is typically casual and fleeting. No developer today would splash on carved stone details when they didn't have to.
It's the nature of the "affordable" units that most concerns me.
Did you get photos of the floor plans?
The "influence from surrounding buildings" is typically casual and fleeting. No developer today would splash on carved stone details when they didn't have to.
It's the nature of the "affordable" units that most concerns me.
Did you get photos of the floor plans?
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Wasn't there talk of this being taller? I seem to remember a number of floors in the teens?
It does not bother me but it does not excite me either. Generally, the slick symmetry of the uppers is fine but in general (not just here) I'd like to see more intricate, human scale, detailing on buildings at ground level.
It does not bother me but it does not excite me either. Generally, the slick symmetry of the uppers is fine but in general (not just here) I'd like to see more intricate, human scale, detailing on buildings at ground level.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Since official figures released yesterday show London's population has risen by 100,000 in the past 12 months, I suggest they build as high as they can.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I think I'd rather see lots of tall skyscrapers spread out across London a fair distance apart from eachother rather than crowding them all into the centre.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
You are probably right but I am not sure we have the time for such niceties.
editor
hiraethified
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Just come back from the exhibition. Lots of swivel-action suits on show.
Before I list some points, it's worth saying that - barring some miracle - this development will definitely go ahead and there's nothing we can do to stop it. The pub is going. The developers already own the site and have access to millions of £pounds. All we can do is influence the planning process.
I talked to a guy who seemed to be the architect or scheme director or whatever.
- I was most interested in the 2000 square foot 'community use' space on the ground floor - how could they guarantee it would be used as community space and not retail or whatever? I was told a covenant could be put on it, but the guy didn't sound convincing. Would market rent be charged? He said it wouldn't be sensible to charge market rent as community groups couldnt afford it. I pressed him on how this would be achieved. It seems this is entirely up to the developer and wouldn't form part of the planning application. So it is what it is - a sop to the community for the loss of the pub, but with no guarantee on future community usage. I think we need to press on this point through the planning application.
- I asked about affordable housing. There will be some, but it's shared ownership only - so that's no use for the majority of us. The % of "affordable" housing will be set via the planning application. So we can influence this.
- I asked about section 106 money (cash the developer has to give to the council for local improvements for the right to build their huge development on our doorstep). This will be set via the planning application. Again, we need to influence this.
- They were interested in what we thought of the building itself. I said it seemed too tall and imposing and I suspected lots of others would think the same. The houses opposite will suffer loss of light and privacy. I think the brickwork and finish is unimaginative. But what can you do? There's a old red brick building opposite with gothic arches - it would be nice to reflect that to some extent. We won't get it though.
- The 'public realm' will benefit from a slightly wider bit of pavement where Popes Road meets Canterbury Crescent (see pic above). We could potentially ask for stuff like bike stands and benches to be put here (my suggestion.)
Stuart the Watch Man was there too, asking about the effect on the car park redevelopment and space for traders (no guarantees on any of that, other than the fact the there would be no windows on the back of the redeveloped Canterbury to enable Lambeth to put whatever scheme they want there.) We both ranted at them a bit about loss of local pubs. I asked whether soundproofing would be installed between the residential bit and the community use bit. He said yes (we need to make sure this is in the planning application) but said there was no way live music or any kind of bar/pub type venue could go in the ground floor. I said the development should be done in a way that doesn't preclude any type of community use.
The planning application will go in later this summer. The council will prob take 3-6 months to process the application (my estimate, not theirs), depending on the details. The pub will therefore probably survive until the end of the year. The build will take 18 months. Building completed some time towards the end of 2015.
Their blog with the designs etc on is here: http://www.maydevelopmentsbrixton.blogspot.co.uk
They asked for comments to be sent in. One of the questions is 'what would you like the proposed community space to be used for?' A pub perhaps?! Bit of a wierd question though, cos the developer can't know what community groups might want the space, and the planning application itself can't set the type of community use as far as I'm aware.
To be honest, I'm not sure I'll bother sending comments. I'm gonna save my comments for the planning application itself. I might be wrong, but if we send comments in now, the developers are likely to find some sort of dodgy answer to all of them, and persuade officers to wave the application through first time. The least we can hope for is to delay them for a bit and keep the pub open in the meantime.
Before I list some points, it's worth saying that - barring some miracle - this development will definitely go ahead and there's nothing we can do to stop it. The pub is going. The developers already own the site and have access to millions of £pounds. All we can do is influence the planning process.
I talked to a guy who seemed to be the architect or scheme director or whatever.
- I was most interested in the 2000 square foot 'community use' space on the ground floor - how could they guarantee it would be used as community space and not retail or whatever? I was told a covenant could be put on it, but the guy didn't sound convincing. Would market rent be charged? He said it wouldn't be sensible to charge market rent as community groups couldnt afford it. I pressed him on how this would be achieved. It seems this is entirely up to the developer and wouldn't form part of the planning application. So it is what it is - a sop to the community for the loss of the pub, but with no guarantee on future community usage. I think we need to press on this point through the planning application.
- I asked about affordable housing. There will be some, but it's shared ownership only - so that's no use for the majority of us. The % of "affordable" housing will be set via the planning application. So we can influence this.
- I asked about section 106 money (cash the developer has to give to the council for local improvements for the right to build their huge development on our doorstep). This will be set via the planning application. Again, we need to influence this.
- They were interested in what we thought of the building itself. I said it seemed too tall and imposing and I suspected lots of others would think the same. The houses opposite will suffer loss of light and privacy. I think the brickwork and finish is unimaginative. But what can you do? There's a old red brick building opposite with gothic arches - it would be nice to reflect that to some extent. We won't get it though.
- The 'public realm' will benefit from a slightly wider bit of pavement where Popes Road meets Canterbury Crescent (see pic above). We could potentially ask for stuff like bike stands and benches to be put here (my suggestion.)
Stuart the Watch Man was there too, asking about the effect on the car park redevelopment and space for traders (no guarantees on any of that, other than the fact the there would be no windows on the back of the redeveloped Canterbury to enable Lambeth to put whatever scheme they want there.) We both ranted at them a bit about loss of local pubs. I asked whether soundproofing would be installed between the residential bit and the community use bit. He said yes (we need to make sure this is in the planning application) but said there was no way live music or any kind of bar/pub type venue could go in the ground floor. I said the development should be done in a way that doesn't preclude any type of community use.
The planning application will go in later this summer. The council will prob take 3-6 months to process the application (my estimate, not theirs), depending on the details. The pub will therefore probably survive until the end of the year. The build will take 18 months. Building completed some time towards the end of 2015.
Their blog with the designs etc on is here: http://www.maydevelopmentsbrixton.blogspot.co.uk
They asked for comments to be sent in. One of the questions is 'what would you like the proposed community space to be used for?' A pub perhaps?! Bit of a wierd question though, cos the developer can't know what community groups might want the space, and the planning application itself can't set the type of community use as far as I'm aware.
To be honest, I'm not sure I'll bother sending comments. I'm gonna save my comments for the planning application itself. I might be wrong, but if we send comments in now, the developers are likely to find some sort of dodgy answer to all of them, and persuade officers to wave the application through first time. The least we can hope for is to delay them for a bit and keep the pub open in the meantime.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Try to get what you want without slowing it down.
High Definition
Active Member
Was also at the exhibition. Agree with what most of Brixton Hatter says - the building is too tall and will affect light and privacy of tenants in the council flats nearby, a development of this size should be providing affordable housing for rent and not just shared ownership. And agree that it's likely to go through anyway - as the Lambeth Local Plan and the Brixton SPD both state that this is a site suitable for tall buildings with resi above and retail or community space on the groundfloor.
I also spoke to them about the "community space". The person I spoke to was David McCormack, who was the only person there from the property company (May Developments Ltd) which will submit the application - all the other white shirts in the room were architects or development consultants.
I said I knew of developments in other boroughs where developers had agreed to provide community space but local groups hadn't been able to take this up because rents weren't affordable and the space had been left in shell condition (no floor or ceiling, no electrical wiring, no plumbing) and they couldn't afford fit out costs.
David McCormack told me that May would be prepared to offer to space to a local community group at an affordable rent - he suggested 20% of local rent levels for A1 units - and that they would agree to offer the space fully fitted out.
If, as seems likely, this scheme is approved by Lambeth's Planning Applications Committee, then I think is potential to secure a useful community benefit as part of the s106 agreement - 2,000 sq foot of community space at an affordable rent (or even a peppercorn rent).
Between now and early September when it seems the application is likely to be submitted, would be good to find out if there are local community groups who might be interested in this space. There's space for a shop front, back office and a meeting room. Could be suitable for a group needing to relocate from premises away from the town centre and interested in affordable space with a shop front just off the high street.
I also spoke to them about the "community space". The person I spoke to was David McCormack, who was the only person there from the property company (May Developments Ltd) which will submit the application - all the other white shirts in the room were architects or development consultants.
I said I knew of developments in other boroughs where developers had agreed to provide community space but local groups hadn't been able to take this up because rents weren't affordable and the space had been left in shell condition (no floor or ceiling, no electrical wiring, no plumbing) and they couldn't afford fit out costs.
David McCormack told me that May would be prepared to offer to space to a local community group at an affordable rent - he suggested 20% of local rent levels for A1 units - and that they would agree to offer the space fully fitted out.
If, as seems likely, this scheme is approved by Lambeth's Planning Applications Committee, then I think is potential to secure a useful community benefit as part of the s106 agreement - 2,000 sq foot of community space at an affordable rent (or even a peppercorn rent).
Between now and early September when it seems the application is likely to be submitted, would be good to find out if there are local community groups who might be interested in this space. There's space for a shop front, back office and a meeting room. Could be suitable for a group needing to relocate from premises away from the town centre and interested in affordable space with a shop front just off the high street.
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