Canterbury Arms, Brixton to be turned into flats - planning application

[trabuquera]

WTF?

I don't understand these documents at all. One seems to say that because of the size of the site (too small?) it doesn't even need an Environmental Impact Assessment. Although going from a proposed 9 storeys to "approximately" (got to love that vagueness) 20 seems like a pretty large environmental impact to me.

Also, does "finally disposed of" mean "no, Council says you cannot do this", or "Council folds its hands and says do what the hell you like it's none of our business"?

 

[editor]

It's seems ironic that this development seems to be following the template of Pop Brixton. Tell people you're doing one thing and then turn it into something completely different. I wasted my time going along to the consultations for the original proposals and now they're trying to build something that has no relation to the original designs.

 

[editor]

Sad scenes

The last ever St Patrick’s Day dance at the Canterbury Arms, Brixton

 

[Rexer60]

Used to drink there for 6 years or so. I remember one of the barman (Kevin?) being imprisoned for a rape/murder in Streatham. His dad also worked there.

 

[editor]

The last party at Brixton’s Canterbury Arms was exactly two years ago.

The pub now lies under the rarely used trendy Pop Fields with the proposed flats still unbuilt. So there was no need to flatten the fucking place at all.

The last party at Brixton’s Canterbury Arms as gentrification claims another much-loved community asset

 

[ricbake]

This looks like it could be part of the consolidation of the site of Pop Brixton, International House and perhaps the Recreation Centre for an undocumented Future Brixton Plan for the whole site.... Can we expect a development akin to the Streatham Tesco's hub?

Decision - Former Canterbury Arms Public House, Canterbury Crescent, Brixton | Lambeth Council
Decision:
Recommendations

1. To approve the allocation for an amount greater than £500,000 as set out in the Part II report to acquire the former Canterbury Arms Public House site and to delegate the terms of acquisition to the Strategic Director of Neighbourhoods & Growth in consultation with the Cabinet Member for Planning, Regeneration and Jobs.

2. To approve the allocation of £50,000 for additional commercial property and legal services required to support the potential acquisition of the former Canterbury Arms Public House.

3. To approve the allocation of £50,000 for additional commercial property and legal services required to support the future letting of International House.

4. To approve the allocation of £100,000 to prepare a Supplementary Planning Document for the Brixton Central sites.

Publication date: 02/02/2018
Date of decision: 12/02/2018

 

[editor]

Makes my blood boil. There was no fucking need to demolish that building but those spineless shits in the council all nodded their heads.

 

[CH1]

3. To approve the allocation of £50,000 for additional commercial property and legal services required to support the future letting of International House.

What is that supposed to mean? Are they proposing to rent out International House rather than redevelop it?
Just asking!

 

[ricbake]

They just want to be able to spend up to a hundred thousand pounds on estate agents, consultants and surveyors to help them decide how best to circumvent anything that would offer any social benefit to the local population in buying the Canterbury Arms site and deciding International House was so badly built it has to be knocked down...

 

[Gramsci]

What is that supposed to mean? Are they proposing to rent out International House rather than redevelop it?
Just asking!

Council are going to keep International house for next five years whilst they decide what to do with the site. It's going to be a "meanwhile" use.

 

[editor]

Council are going to keep International house for next five years whilst they decide what to do with the site. It's going to be a "meanwhile" use.

Sounds perfect for that loss-making machine Pop Brixton to take over!

 

[ricbake]

Can't imagine any use that International House could be put to for the meanwhile -
The layout is pants; the lifts are always breaking down; the heating isn't good; the plumbing is dire...

If there is a five year plan it will probably be left empty for most of it

 

[Gramsci]

Sounds perfect for that loss-making machine Pop Brixton to take over!

I did wonder if they would be in contention for this.

 

[editor]

I did wonder if they would be in contention for this.

Well, they were gifted the site of the Canterbury for that booze-fuelled 'Sports' Zone that the community has been crying out for and after their triumphant, locals-excluding half million loss at Pop, that prime piece of property at Peckham Levels was all theirs!

 

[Gramsci]

Can't imagine any use that International House could be put to for the meanwhile -
The layout is pants; the lifts are always breaking down; the heating isn't good; the plumbing is dire...

If there is a five year plan it will probably be left empty for most of it

Im for this use. Its step forward from the quick sale to a developer. Originally this was the idea once staff have moved to the Nu Town hall.

I get impression that Cllrs/ Regen officers now see central Brixton as a sensitive issue. From meetings I've attended.

International House is part of the Brixton Rec development. Some I know wanted it listed along with Rec. It's not. The Grade two listing cover the Rec only.

Heating and plumbing is also problem in the Rec. It's never been regularly maintained ( imo) and the plumbing and other services have reached the end of there life. So both International house and Rec need large scale replacement of ageing plumbing etc. With Rec Council have promised around Ten million to do this. Technically , according to officers, it is difficult to do whilst keeping Rec open. But officers have never been that keen on Rec.

This was , as officer reminded me recently, reason why Council Regen opinion was that these buildings had reached the end of there life. That better option was to demolish them and start again.

Structurally the Brixton Rec / International house are sound. The concrete structure is to a high standard.

 

[ricbake]

The original boilers for the whole building the Rec and the offices are buried in the bowels, they still heat the Rec, swimming pool etc and are over 40 years old. International House has a separate boiler plant in shipping containers in the side yard put in about 5 years ago. This leaves the 40 year old boilers operating even more inefficiently than just being too old and very difficult to maintain or find parts for...
If they don't knock the Rec down they will have to find somewhere else to put in new boilers and then find a way to connect them to the old pipe work.
The concrete probably is good but there are all sorts of difficulties with other parts of the structure and how different materials and parts of it fit together

 

[editor]

A total fucking disgrace. There was no reason to destroy this beautiful pub.

Lambeth Council set to spend half a million pounds on buying the site of the demolished Canterbury Arms boozer

 

[Twattor]

There is a lot of this that doesn't make sense - £500k wouldn't touch the value of the site let alone the costs May will have incurred to date.

May's initial consented scheme fitted within the land within their ownership, as does the revised consent (which is still live until 6th December 2019). Cleared land with that sort of consent is worth way more than that, particularly in this location.

The proposed land swap gives Lambeth a strip of Popes road in exchange for a strip from the car park, but the drawing also shows the rest of the car park being transferred under a 999 year lease to give a square site far better suited to a bigger development. Throw in May's EIA scoping application for a 20 story tower and this feels to me more like a joint venture in the making, and the £500k more a contribution towards costs to date and for the next planning application just dressed up as a payment for a bit of land.

 

[happyshopper]

According to Lambethtalk International House "... is being considered for re-use as much needed workspace to support enterprise and employment opportunities in the town centre. It is expected that the future use could support over 500 new jobs."

 

[editor]

According to Lambethtalk International House "... is being considered for re-use as much needed workspace to support enterprise and employment opportunities in the town centre. It is expected that the future use could support over 500 new jobs."

Sounds a bit entrepreneurial

Cue: Pop Brixton 2!

 

[Gramsci]

The original boilers for the whole building the Rec and the offices are buried in the bowels, they still heat the Rec, swimming pool etc and are over 40 years old. International House has a separate boiler plant in shipping containers in the side yard put in about 5 years ago. This leaves the 40 year old boilers operating even more inefficiently than just being too old and very difficult to maintain or find parts for...
If they don't knock the Rec down they will have to find somewhere else to put in new boilers and then find a way to connect them to the old pipe work.
The concrete probably is good but there are all sorts of difficulties with other parts of the structure and how different materials and parts of it fit together

Two of the Rec boilers have been replaced.

 

[editor]

Just what Brixton needs:

Behold Brixton Central – luxury living on top of the flattened Canterbury Arms, with more on the way

 

[CH1]

It's like the Doge's Palace - without the lagoon - or the Doge!

 

[Gramsci]

Just what Brixton needs:

Behold Brixton Central – luxury living on top of the flattened Canterbury Arms, with more on the way

Council have been starting to consult on Brixton Central area. BTW the developer has stolen the name from the Brixton Masterplan. Rather annoying.

This is a problem with "regeneration". The Council consult us local residents/ community group on improving area.

The people who cash in are property developers.

Their developer’s website gushes with talk of “future plans for large scale regeneration of the land surrounding the scheme” with the promise of “a new urban quarter and significant improvement to the public realm.”

Above quote is property developer piggy backing on Council led ( with local community input) improvement. A developer using this to make more profit. Ive said before that property developers are all scum. And been criticized for it. This reinforce my opinion.

 

[Twattor]

Odd. I though this had been shelved and there was some sort of Joint Venture on the cards between Lambeth and May to build out a much larger development. I wonder what's happened to that. Perhaps the involvement of Sports Direct bloke in the central masterplan area has thrown a spanner in the works.

 

[trabuquera]

Not making any snide accusations about the developers' politics (and I guess overpriced "luxury" stacked flats for 2018 London aren't easy to design to look good) but it reminds me irresistibly of this Fascist era behemoth in EUR, Rome:

 

[Gramsci]

Odd. I though this had been shelved and there was some sort of Joint Venture on the cards between Lambeth and May to build out a much larger development. I wonder what's happened to that. Perhaps the involvement of Sports Direct bloke in the central masterplan area has thrown a spanner in the works.

One problem for Lambeth property developer Regeneration officers is the Grade two listing of the Brixton Rec.

Officers response to the listing of this piece of socialist post war architecture ( Heritage England view) was that they had "other plans" that were now thwarted. For time being.

I've heard elements in Council were looking at redeveloping all of Brixton Station road including knocking down Rec. A prime large site.

Other problem is the New Labour obsession with working with thrusting business men. Why should they? Mike Ashley and the developer behind "Brixton Central" follow planning regulations as they stand. Why should they work with Council more than what is statutorily required of them.

The New Labour consultation on the Brixton Central site was on basis of Co Production of a planning Masterplan for this site. ( Covering land on Brixton station road and Pope's road). This fell apart with NR unilateral decision to redevelop arches its way and ignore community.

Unfortunately there is a Brixton Masterplan. A good document. But with weak provision to make sure regeneration works in interest of local community

So my pessimistic view is that improvement to public realm and new housing will further gentrification of area. A perverse outcome of all that local input in writing the Brixton Masterplan.

I also think some officers in Regen are quite happy with that.

 

[Twattor]

One problem for Lambeth property developer Regeneration officers is the Grade two listing of the Brixton Rec.

Officers response to the listing of this piece of socialist post war architecture ( Heritage England view) was that they had "other plans" that were now thwarted. For time being.

I've heard elements in Council were looking at redeveloping all of Brixton Station road including knocking down Rec. A prime large site.

Other problem is the New Labour obsession with working with thrusting business men. Why should they? Mike Ashley and the developer behind "Brixton Central" follow planning regulations as they stand. Why should they work with Council more than what is statutorily required of them.

The New Labour consultation on the Brixton Central site was on basis of Co Production of a planning Masterplan for this site. ( Covering land on Brixton station road and Pope's road). This fell apart with NR unilateral decision to redevelop arches its way and ignore community.

Unfortunately there is a Brixton Masterplan. A good document. But with weak provision to make sure regeneration works in interest of local community

So my pessimistic view is that improvement to public realm and new housing will further gentrification of area. A perverse outcome of all that local input in writing the Brixton Masterplan.

I also think some officers in Regen are quite happy with that.

My understanding was that the land swap agreed between May and Lambeth was to facilitate a much larger development that would fit into the masterplan, as having the May structure on its own might compromise the next phase. I was expecting to see a new planning submission for a revised scheme.

Perhaps May are getting cagey about their current permission lapsing and the risk of not getting a new consent, or maybe their funders want to see some action. I'll have to have a look through the docs on Lambeth's website and see what's changed since last time.

 

[Rushy]

Did I read somewhere that one of the Antic group of companies are proposing to build flats on top of the Effra Social pub?

I can't find mention of it anywhere so may have been imagining it.

 

[CH1]

Did I read somewhere that one of the Antic group of companies are proposing to build flats on top of the Effra Social pub? I can't find mention of it anywhere so may have been imagining it.

Brixton news, rumours and general chat - summer 2018