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Brixton violence and looting (7th Aug 2011)

stevebradley said:
Yes I own my own place - mortgaged to the hilt. The deposit for it was cobbled together from a) money I made on a flat I bought 11yrs ago when I lived in Newcastle (itself bought on a zero-deposit deal my employer at the time had with local bank Northern Rock) that rocketed in value, plus b) a substantial personal loan which I will still be paying off in years. Though in fairness, individual's personal finances are none of your business. I look forward to full disclosure of your finances in return. Not because I'm in any way interested, but just in the interests of equity :)

As for the notion that I'm a property developer - I bloody wish ! :D Have you seen my 9yr old car second-hand with dents and scratches all over it ? This is a smear that Labour tried to put out during the by-election when I was elected - though strangely they only mentioned it once in a single letter. I suspect they realised they were in very murky legal waters so had to stop. It's complete bollox, though I'd expect nothing less from Lambeth Labour. I do have a background - and a Masters degree - as a consultant in sustainable urban regeneration, and I have advised football clubs (which is my real passion) on how to sustainably develop their facilities. But that no more makes me a property developer than a Theology degree and a dog collar would make me Jesus Christ :cool:

As we're all into the spirit of disclosure now, I'd love to know where your 'information' on this came from ? Didn't you used to/still work for Labour, or have I got you mixed up with someone else on here...?
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There's more than one point here so in no particular order; I can't remember where I heard the property developer story, maybe second hand via Labour's leaflet- you certainly wouldn't have been the first person to jump into the housing bubble that has ruined so many people's lives and communities over the past 15 years - and finally ruined our whole sodding economy. Boasting about this shit was practically the national sport among those wealthy enough to join in. I'm guessing that it was your "regeneration" Masters that is the source of the story - and IMO of course - it's not that surprising that people are sceptical about it, or liable to jump to conclusions since "regeneration" is just the latest euphemism for dodgy spivvery. But I'm more than ready to accept that you aren't up to that and I apologise for retelling lies from Lambeth Labour Party.

I was certainly a member of the Labour Party for some years but I'm an utterly pissed off ex-member, I certainly don't grind their axes for them - they are mostly members of the super-rich local elite and several have played the property game themselves to great personal advantage.

My personal circs for what it's worth is that I'm a former flat-owner (ex-council) in Lambeth who - due to loss of partners job - could no longer hold down the mortgage and sold up last year. Now homeless with a 3 year-old child.

And lastly - to return to the main point I was making - how do you think that someone who is in full time employment at an age when he might (once) have been thinking about starting a family but is forced to live at home with his mum and will never, in his whole life, ever be able to own somewhere, even a modest little terrace with a small garden, how do you think someone like that should feel, if not demoralised? Isn't it worse than being on the dole? At least on the dole you have some hope - if I get a job I'll be able to start living. But when you are doing all the right things and you are still going to be a certain failure in our economy? Why wouldn't a 31 year-old behave like a teenager if he's living at home with his mum? Why would he give a shit about behaving like a grown up if he's never going to get a chance to buy into the game?

Lastly lastly, I appreciate your participation on the board under your own name although god knows I hate the Lib-dems for putting the tories in and I wonder why someone who represents Vassell ward can join in with that, I really do. That place is going to get shat on from a great height by this govt.
 
co-op said:
why wouldn't it be a bit demoralising to be 31 years old, in a steady job and having no option except to be living at home with your mum? There's no way someone on primary school teacher's wages is going to be able to afford even a crappy little bedsit in Battersea/Stockwell/Brixton let alone - God forbid - a house with a garden for a child to play in. Never.
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I have been reading these threads with interest - but I have to put my 5 cents in....

With regards to the comments about the 31 year old teacher....
Firstly: He does not have to live at home with his mother. I have been a teaching assistant, and am now a teacher, and I have never lived with my mother. A teaching assistant earns about £1000/month (after tax) and although it is not a lot of money, I was able to rent a DECENT flat, and be able to support myself, without help from the bank of Mum and Dad, as well as live a fairly good life, with all the mod cons (TV, sky, a social life etc). Buying property is not the most important goal in life. On the continent many many people choose to rent their whole lives, even though they can well afford to buy.

As far as primary teaching salaries go: "New entrants to the profession in England, Wales and Northern Ireland start on the main salary scale, which rises incrementally from £21,102 to £30,842. Enhanced pay scales apply for teachers working in or near London"
About the average wage for London????

I grew up in a country where there were no benefits, no EMA, no housing, no help from the government and no work=no money. Many people had nothing with no hope of ever changing their circumstances.....

Don't give the looters excuses.
 
We don't know his circumstances. His parents might be living with him. He might have moved back after his boyfriend chucked him out. He might have debt his ex wife lumbered him with. He might be an eccentric millionaire.
 
I'm a teaching assistant in a secondary school and I don't even earn £1000 a month before tax. Perhaps I should scuttle off to snap up the undoubted vacancy in Stockwell Primary created by the riots.
 
TruXta said:
Depends where you live tho. You wouldn't get a flat, but a studio in some crap location should be doable.
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Would it shock you if I said I lived in a NICE flat for 8 years in nice areas, never shared a room or lived in a bedsit/studio and never paid more than £550 (incl).

It can be done.
 
Ozone said:
Would it shock you if I said I lived in a NICE flat for 8 years in nice areas, never shared a room or lived in a bedsit/studio and never paid more than £550 (incl).

It can be done.
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Do you have a huge stock of compromising photos of the landlords of london?
 
Ozone said:
I have been reading these threads with interest - but I have to put my 5 cents in....

With regards to the comments about the 31 year old teacher....
Firstly: He does not have to live at home with his mother. I have been a teaching assistant, and am now a teacher, and I have never lived with my mother. A teaching assistant earns about £1000/month (after tax) and although it is not a lot of money, I was able to rent a DECENT flat, and be able to support myself, without help from the bank of Mum and Dad, as well as live a fairly good life, with all the mod cons (TV, sky, a social life etc). Buying property is not the most important goal in life. On the continent many many people choose to rent their whole lives, even though they can well afford to buy.

As far as primary teaching salaries go: "New entrants to the profession in England, Wales and Northern Ireland start on the main salary scale, which rises incrementally from £21,102 to £30,842. Enhanced pay scales apply for teachers working in or near London"
About the average wage for London????

I grew up in a country where there were no benefits, no EMA, no housing, no help from the government and no work=no money. Many people had nothing with no hope of ever changing their circumstances.....

Don't give the looters excuses.
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100% agree. Plenty of unemployed people out there who would never even think about doing what he did.
 
Ozone said:
Would it shock you if I said I lived in a NICE flat for 8 years in nice areas, never shared a room or lived in a bedsit/studio and never paid more than £550 (incl).

It can be done.
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When was this? And where? Crap was hyperbole, what I meant was not very central at all.
 
TruXta said:
When was this? And where? Crap was hyperbole, what I meant was not very central at all.
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Zone 2. Near the river. Last year...
No compromising pictures of landlords, just lucky I guess.

But the real point here, is it is easy to give reasons why things are happening/to blame it on circumstances/whatever, but people make choices. I watched some of the people coming down my road after looting Currys, and I can say they were people with nice cars, nice clothes....etc. Not all of them were victims of the current cuts/victims of dire poverty who have no hope.
 
Sounds a bit unbelievable, Ozone - nothing personal. It certainly doesn't tally with my impressions from looking at ads in the last few years.
 
TruXta said:
Sounds a bit unbelievable, Ozone - nothing personal. It certainly doesn't tally with my impressions from looking at ads in the last few years.
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Sorry....perhaps I was misleading. 2 bedrooms (£550 each). Had to share with a friend, obviously not ideal for a family...unless you could both put in the money....
Anyway, got to go out now, didn't want to start on debate on my renting credibility, just wanted to say I do think it is possible to have a good life in London without making the wrong choices....(and I accept that dependent on circumstances, it's not that simple for everyone).
 
even at £550 thats a whopping 55% of income on a £1k a month.

doesn't leave much when that gas bill drops on the mat does it.
 
Ozone said:
Sorry....perhaps I was misleading. 2 bedrooms (£550 each). Had to share with a friend, obviously not ideal for a family...unless you could both put in the money....
Anyway, got to go out now, didn't want to start on debate on my renting credibility, just wanted to say I do think it is possible to have a good life in London without making the wrong choices....(and I accept that dependent on circumstances, it's not that simple for everyone).
Click to expand...

That's a whole different thing you're talking about. I believe I speak for most of us in believing you were renting 1 bed flats on yer own for 550 pcm inc. Which is frankly unbelievable. 1100 shared is fairly normal around Brixton. I pay less myself, but then again our landlady is mental in the nicest possible way.
 


Ozone said:
Zone 2. Near the river. Last year...
No compromising pictures of landlords, just lucky I guess.

But the real point here, is it is easy to give reasons why things are happening/to blame it on circumstances/whatever, but people make choices. I watched some of the people coming down my road after looting Currys, and I can say they were people with nice cars, nice clothes....etc. Not all of them were victims of the current cuts/victims of dire poverty who have no hope.
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If there are 1000 flats for £550 or less and 10,000 similar flats at more than £550 and 11,000 people looking for flats then most of them are going to have to pay more than £550.

e2a: Ah, I see they were talking bollocks.

If I might speculate for a moment. I'm as qualified as the next person, I reckon. I'm not an expert but I have met people, and I am people. One of the many reasons they might do this - because they feel justified. Or because they can convince themselves it is justified. People rarely fuck over people just because they enjoy fucking over people. We always do it because of some insult or perceived insult to ourselves or because everyone else is doing it, I don't want to be the mug that pays and never gets paid. Tit for tat. Everyone thinks what they are doing the tit as a reaction to a tat. No one ever thinks they did the tatting. They feel they might as well as they feel that they have been fucked over. Same as putting down a bit extra on an insurance claim. They feel that insurance companies shaft them so this is their chance to get a bit back. The govt is fucking us, The super rich are fucking us, the banks are fucking us etc. This is for all the times I feel I've been shafted. Ha!

For instance I once bought a hand held vacuum cleaner. It was rubbish. I didn't take it back though, and it got more rubbish and I ignored it then threw it out. I went to Argos and bought another more expensive one. When I got home I realised they'd given me two. Normally I would return one and point out their error. This time I took one back and got my money back. I justified this to myself as I'd previously spent money on one which was rubbish and broke. They complain about the money the lose but not about the money they gain from when people don't return shoddy goods or when they won't let them return shoddy goods. That was my justification to myself.

 
It is so boring having to trot out this line again and again but - just for the benefit of those posters who didn't manage to read it in my first post - I'm not trying to "make excuses" for anybody, this guy could be a complete arsehole for all I know. I've spent time on the dole myself, I didn't go looting either etc etc. Blah blah blah.

What I was saying is that the mere fact that someone "has a job" doesn't automatically mean that they are given access to the important resources that allow a 'normal' life to be lived. Most of the housing in Stockwell is social housing even now (65% or so in Stockwell ward) - but you try and buy one and it'll cost you close to a quarter of a million for a couple of bedrooms. How is anyone normal going to do that? Theses were houses that were built for people who lived locally and worked in modest-income jobs - like our culprit. They are now just a fantasy for anyone like this man, an utter fantasy. And whoever it was that started going on about how home-ownership isn't the be-all and end-all is either sitting pretty or stupid; yes it's different "in Europe" - whatever that means - but tell me a bit more about exactly where and how. You think sitting in Assured Shorthold Tenancies - at a "market rent" of course - for the rest of your life without any rights whatsoever is a stable foundation for meaningful participation in society? Or raising a family? What a joke.

And what's this nonsense about teaching assistants being able to rent easily? I know someone who's a TA, she gets just over £10,000 gross. God knows what the take-home is.

Honestly some of the comments on here are just fucking ridiculous.
 
quimcunx said:
For instance I once bought a hand held vacuum cleaner. It was rubbish. I didn't take it back though, and it got more rubbish and I ignored it then threw it out. I went to Argos and bought another more expensive one. When I got home I realised they'd given me two. Normally I would return one and point out their error. This time I took one back and got my money back. I justified this to myself as I'd previously spent money on one which was rubbish and broke. They complain about the money the lose but not about the money they gain from when people don't return shoddy goods or when they won't let them return shoddy goods. That was my justification to myself.
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In other words you told Argos to suck it up.

(sorry)
 
TruXta said:
That's a whole different thing you're talking about. I believe I speak for most of us in believing you were renting 1 bed flats on yer own for 550 pcm inc. Which is frankly unbelievable. 1100 shared is fairly normal around Brixton. I pay less myself, but then again our landlady is mental in the nicest possible way.
Click to expand...

Sorry...
 
stevebradley said:
I've been a member of U75 for 7yrs now - and only a councillor for 3 of those. I don't come on the site too often these days, but I've been very open about the fact that I'm a councillor on here, and I've tried to be helpful with issues people raise (e.g. the unapproved advertising hoarding on CHL) and the odd bit of casework that people have contacted me about directly (even though they haven't been constituents of mine). But you know what - it's really not worth it when people literally just make up sh!t like this.

I now see why I'm the only person who posts on here openly as a councillor. But to be honest it's just not worth my time doing so any more when I have to put up with made-up sh!t like this and the stuff above from Co-op. People always say they want their public representatives to be more open, accessible, involved etc. And then when one tries to do so they have to spend time defendign themselves against complete and utter nonesense from anonymous people who haven't a clue. Really not worth it anymore.
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Ive scanned through the last posts and Im not happy at the personal nature of some of the posts directed at you either. Its derailing the thread and is uncalled for. Attack someones politics but not there personal life.

Im all for some robust political debate on a thread like this and Im glad that at someone from Council or other parties comes on here.
 
Runnymede Trust on Tottenham riots:

http://www.runnymedetrust.org/blog/153/359/Tottenham---a-tragedy-we-should-have-seen-coming.html

It appears that we have failed to learn from the past and are therefore doomed to repeat our mistakes. Mistrust of the police has once again been the spark in a tinderbox of exclusion and hopelessness that creates the conditions for riots of this type. Despite the efforts of many people in communities to advocate for change and to address the exclusion of young people, from the Peace Alliance to Haringey Young People Empowered, they are not helped by the overwhelming inequality faced by those they are working with.
As Tottenham picks itself up and its people seek to restore their lives, we look forward to hearing from government what they intend to do to help. This week in New York we have seen Mayor Bloomberg announce a $1 billion public/private partnership to address the economic exclusion of African American and Latino young men. In London, an initiative of this kind seems to be too much to ask. Instead we have a government that is yet to publish a strategy to address racial inequality, 75% cuts to youth services in Haringey, a policing strategy that is failing to address the serious youth violence on our streets, and the organisations that might make a difference scrabbling for resources rather than being able to address the problems.
Just as evidence tells us what conditions drive riots, it can also tell us what works in minimising them. Government and civil society both have roles in finding the solutions. If we know that racial inequality creates bad outcomes for us all, why is so little being done to address it? The people of Tottenham deserve answers.
 
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