Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I really can't believe you mean this. This thread is over 30 pages. And you posted up on it enough times.
Brixton Ritzy staff in pay dispute for London Living Wage with Picturehouse Cinemas
- Thread starter editor
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I really can't believe you mean this. This thread is over 30 pages. And you posted up on it enough times.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Noticed this as well:
I wonder what a Living Wage Zone in Brixton BID will be like? Leaving aside small business I can't see some of big business in Brixton area like Ritzy being happy about a Brixton BID Living Wage Zone.
I wonder if Brixton BID know about this commitment from Lambeth? Brixton BID are in theory independent of the Council.
Still. Good to see the Labour Council take Living Wage idea seriously. Rather then pick holes in it. Shows it is idea that is becoming mainstream.
snowy_again
Slush
I’m not sure anyone here is against LLW, more that they’re exploring the realities of its implementation. Employment law is overly complicated and some long term decisions get reversed.
Do you think Mencap are having the same thoughts at the moment about sleep in pay?
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Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
What Snowy said. If you like we can all just agree that we support the LLW and leave it at that. It would be a pretty short thread. Or we can take it a step further and discuss the meatier issues - what are the details? What are the potential challenges e.g. for small businesses? How can they be overcome?
My business pays well above LLW to all staff. I’m about to try to persuade them to switch cleaning company to one that pays LLW (I’ve been meaning to do it for ages
). I’m expecting kickback from some colleagues. This is not U75. I’m going to need to marshall my arguments to persuade them. Threads like this are useful - more useful than a ‘motherhood and apple pie’ thread where everyone agrees and there’s no sand in the oyster.
editor
hiraethified
You mean your friends don't focus on the vital and incredibly relevant issue of what local DJs get paid when discussing the ongoing dispute between striking cinema workers and a multi national cinema chain?
editor
hiraethified
Good for you - and good luck.My business pays well above LLW to all staff. I’m about to try to persuade them to switch cleaning company to one that pays LLW (I’ve been meaning to do it for ages
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Wow. I had a look and you are right G. I did post a few times on this thread. Mind you, most of my posts are back in 2014 so I guess I must have forgotten.
Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that I became wearied and disinterested by the incessant posturing and sneering. Full marks for keeping the thread on it toes!
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
What Snowy said. If you like we can all just agree that we support the LLW and leave it at that. It would be a pretty short thread. Or we can take it a step further and discuss the meatier issues - what are the details? What are the potential challenges e.g. for small businesses? How can they be overcome?
My business pays well above LLW to all staff. I’m about to try to persuade them to switch cleaning company to one that pays LLW (I’ve been meaning to do it for ages
If people don't support LLW they are entitled to say that here. What winds me up is this. Saying one supports LLW then posting up why it won't work.
Reminds me of someone who I used to work for who sincerely wanted to pay us more. But this never happened. Yet they sincerely believed this.
If you say that you sincerely support something then give reasons why it can't happen you don't really support it.
And I post up link to CEO of Curzon saying why paying LLW was good idea. To get this thread back to the subject. Also a link that I thought everyone could agree with.
Apart from likes and one poster the usual suspects posted up to undermine my post. To my surprise. Here I am posting up a link by a boss. Who is saying paying LLW is good for business. Yet the usual suspects have a go.
What am I supposed to do?
The recent posts show how right wing posting has got here.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Doesn't take much for liberals to descend into all manner of whataboutery and concern trolling when it comes to worker pay and rights, does it?! Same old arguments over minimum wage, as well as parental leave rights, capping of weekly working hours, etc. over the years.
Won't someone think of the businesses.
Won't someone think of the businesses.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
You know what, you’re right.
snowy_again
Slush
The questions are pretty much the same ones every policy officer covering employment has and will be asking - it's not 'liberal' or 'right wing' to work out how to set and then apply a recommended pay policy into practice in conjunction with a series of other inter relating laws.
Do you honestly think Resolution Foundation just came up with an idea and a £ figure and then didn't go and test those assumptions?
FWIW where I work we do LLW as a minimum, for internships too.
Do you honestly think Resolution Foundation just came up with an idea and a £ figure and then didn't go and test those assumptions?
FWIW where I work we do LLW as a minimum, for internships too.
editor
hiraethified
Spot on. The company is raking in tens of millions, the boss is earning millions every year and all these self-proclaimed 'supporters' of the LLW here can do is try to come up with excuses why businesses should avoid signing up to on entirely invented grounds.
...or going on about DJs wages in an attempt to divert attention from a losing argument
snowy_again
Slush
Who here is saying that PH shouldn't adopt the LLW?
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Nobody as far as I can see. Obviously this disappoints some posters on here which is very strange.
editor
hiraethified
What's disappointing is how people like you are so desperate to continue your personal vendetta that you'll bring up the matter of how much I pay my DJs because I 'liked' someone else's posts about the LLW.
Have you any idea of how ridiculous that makes you look? What on earth has the private matter of how much a DJ gets paid at a small gig got to do with workers fighting a multinational corporate?
And as I said at the time - to your obvious disappointment - I pay over double the Living Wage, not that it's any of your fucking business.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You moved the discussion away from being specifically about Ritzy dispute in past pages.
You stated you agreed with LLW then had a series of posts why LLW was a bad idea.
So no I don't think you support the LLW in a meaningful sense.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This post is an example. I post up link where CEO of Curzon says being a LLW accredited employer (of the Living Wage Foundation) is good idea and this is what you come up with.
snowy_again
Slush
“I know there’s a certain other chain that has a lot of problems at the moment, but they’re misunderstood in many ways as well. Employers do want to pay employees properly, of course they do, but the pressures, such as business rates, rents, regulation… I’m trying to present a balanced picture here. It isn’t easy making these decisions about work practices,” he said.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
I did not have a series of posts saying the LLW is a bad idea and your example of my post is not me expressing such a view.
I am reasoning why an employer might not think being LLW accredited is good for them. I am giving examples why they might not. How does that demonstrate I personally don’t support the LLW? You are purposefully misinterpreting my view and it’s makng you look foolish.
I think you don’t grasp that the LLW is complex and nuanced. All parties views and concerns must be considered and given equal gravitas, regardless of how distasteful one might find this. It’s what real negotiations that actually achieve things do. Oversimplification and dismissivness will achieve nothing.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm not purposefully misinterpreting. I've posted up one example. Not the only one.
I can see you are reasoning as an employer. That's been evident in your posts.
You said a few pages ago that not only did you support the LLW you thought it should be higher. A strong statement. Now you are saying something different in your last sentence.
I said after reading your posts I don't think you support the LLW in a meaningful sense. You say you believe in it then your last sentence in above post makes me think you don't.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It needs to be remembered that the Curzon workers rang a successful campaign to get LLW
Victory for Curzon Cinema workers as bosses agree to pay London Living Wage after year-long campaign - South West Londoner
They didn't get LLW just because Curzon ltd thought it would be good idea.
It took pressure from Curzon workers and public to get LLW. I used to use Curzon a lot. It's high profile arthouse cinema chain. The bad publicity wasn't doing the company image any good.
Mark Thomas stunts made a difference for example. Even if they could be portrayed as simplifying a complex issue. Not seeing it as "nuanced".
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I give up
Jesus wept
This issue isn't some kind of joke for me.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Why should the views of multinational multimillion pound businesses be given the same time of day as people struggling to pay bills, eat food and keep a roof over their heads. This is absolute nonsense.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Because if you want them to pay a LLW you must listen to them. As I say regardless of how distasteful that might be.
Unless you legislate to force them to pay it which I would support but I don’t think is going to happen.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Nor for me. You on the other hand...
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Wtf is this?!
You 'support' LLW but you must listen to the businesses if its to happen, except in the situation where legislation is forced onto those businesses anyway which you also contend to 'support'. No wonder Gramsci, Ed & co. get so very frustrated!
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
You’re not arguing any point here.Wtf is this?!
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Tbf though, it's a fairly standard New Labour position which tries to balance - 'we believe in the sanctity of the private market, until we decide that the state intervenes'. Which has rather led to all kinds of the mess we see in services and housing now, and politicians of all stripes but especially New Labour ones in London councils tie themselves up in knots trying to constantly align the contradiction.
