Brixton Rec - demolition proposed by council
- Thread starter indigolove
- Start date
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
hilarious! and even more absurd that councils 'welcome' and 'note' things.
My response from Ruth Ling. Doesn't exactly make me feel like saving the rec is her priority, full of a lot of council evasion speak while being quite aggressive. As usual I found the link to the consultation difficult to use, just seemed to go to Lambeth's shit website:
Dear
Thank you for writing to me about this.
First of all, I should say that no decisions have been made about the Brixton Rec and any changes that are made will be done so only after consultation with the community and the full involvement of local people.
The speculation in the local press arose from the discussions the Council has been having with local people about a new planning document for the area, which will set out clearly what residents and the council want to achieve together in Brixton.
I am also aware of a posting on a local website which includes such comments as “Lambeth Labour is again embroiled in controversy over plans to demolish Brixton's iconic Recreation Centre,” “Labour has now resurrected the idea as part of its wider Future Brixton redevelopment proposals”, “Despite pumping millions of pounds of public money … on further dubious improvements, Labour is now desperate that a new Recreation Centre will emerge as the prize from whatever megalomaniac high-rise project the developers in partnership with Lambeth decide on for the area” and Labour's leadership cabal sees new leisure centres around the borough as the single most important legacy they can offer the electorate in 2014 and there's clearly a huge political imperative for them to get cracking”. These remarks are so without any foundation that they are libellous.
The Council has worked with and spoken to hundreds of people through workshops, street stalls and individual conversations. People have told us they want better support for markets, for it to be easier to get around, more start-up business space, more affordable housing, more child-friendly spaces and, critically in the case of the Rec, improved leisure facilities that are more accessible and environmentally sustainable. Our job is to make sure that we use our planning powers to ensure this happens. The Council’s Supplementary Planning Document will be produced as a draft later this year and will then go to full public consultation.
We have put up a statement on the Council website www.lambeth.gov.uk/futurebrixton to clarify the situation. We’ve also posted this statement on local neighbourhood forums’ notice boards and have asked Brixton Rec staff to display it on notice boards there.
I do understand completely how integral the Rec is to the centre of Brixton and how many fantastic sporting activities it offers. We have no intention of leaving Brixton without a leisure centre – we are however keen to improve the facilities we have.
You can get involved in the consultation around Brixton generally by emailing Lambeth on futurebrixton@lambeth.gov.uk.
Best wishes,
Ruth
Dear
Thank you for writing to me about this.
First of all, I should say that no decisions have been made about the Brixton Rec and any changes that are made will be done so only after consultation with the community and the full involvement of local people.
The speculation in the local press arose from the discussions the Council has been having with local people about a new planning document for the area, which will set out clearly what residents and the council want to achieve together in Brixton.
I am also aware of a posting on a local website which includes such comments as “Lambeth Labour is again embroiled in controversy over plans to demolish Brixton's iconic Recreation Centre,” “Labour has now resurrected the idea as part of its wider Future Brixton redevelopment proposals”, “Despite pumping millions of pounds of public money … on further dubious improvements, Labour is now desperate that a new Recreation Centre will emerge as the prize from whatever megalomaniac high-rise project the developers in partnership with Lambeth decide on for the area” and Labour's leadership cabal sees new leisure centres around the borough as the single most important legacy they can offer the electorate in 2014 and there's clearly a huge political imperative for them to get cracking”. These remarks are so without any foundation that they are libellous.
The Council has worked with and spoken to hundreds of people through workshops, street stalls and individual conversations. People have told us they want better support for markets, for it to be easier to get around, more start-up business space, more affordable housing, more child-friendly spaces and, critically in the case of the Rec, improved leisure facilities that are more accessible and environmentally sustainable. Our job is to make sure that we use our planning powers to ensure this happens. The Council’s Supplementary Planning Document will be produced as a draft later this year and will then go to full public consultation.
We have put up a statement on the Council website www.lambeth.gov.uk/futurebrixton to clarify the situation. We’ve also posted this statement on local neighbourhood forums’ notice boards and have asked Brixton Rec staff to display it on notice boards there.
I do understand completely how integral the Rec is to the centre of Brixton and how many fantastic sporting activities it offers. We have no intention of leaving Brixton without a leisure centre – we are however keen to improve the facilities we have.
You can get involved in the consultation around Brixton generally by emailing Lambeth on futurebrixton@lambeth.gov.uk.
Best wishes,
Ruth
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
that is quite aggressive... 
very different response to what Jeremy Clyne said to me.... I don't think I'll post his reply up, but I have told him about Gramsci's post here so I guess if he does look on here he can comment for himself.
very different response to what Jeremy Clyne said to me.... I don't think I'll post his reply up, but I have told him about Gramsci's post here so I guess if he does look on here he can comment for himself.
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
So this is the council's statement:
There has been speculation in the local press that Brixton Recreation Centre could be replaced by a new leisure centre in the future.
The story came about because Lambeth Council is currently consulting with local people on a new document that sets out what Brixton could look like over the next 10 to 15 years, what sort of changes local people and the council would like to see in the area, and what opportunities there might be to improve the town.
One of the things the document (called a supplementary planning document or SPD) considers is whether it may be possible to improve Brixton Recreation Centre or even replace it with a brand new 21st century leisure centre providing state of the art sports facilities in the heart of Brixton.
It is very early days but the council is keen to gather as many views from local people about this, so to learn more visit www.lambeth.gov.uk/futurebrixton
so this statement tells us basically nothing whatsoever that we didn't already know...
There has been speculation in the local press that Brixton Recreation Centre could be replaced by a new leisure centre in the future.
The story came about because Lambeth Council is currently consulting with local people on a new document that sets out what Brixton could look like over the next 10 to 15 years, what sort of changes local people and the council would like to see in the area, and what opportunities there might be to improve the town.
One of the things the document (called a supplementary planning document or SPD) considers is whether it may be possible to improve Brixton Recreation Centre or even replace it with a brand new 21st century leisure centre providing state of the art sports facilities in the heart of Brixton.
It is very early days but the council is keen to gather as many views from local people about this, so to learn more visit www.lambeth.gov.uk/futurebrixton
so this statement tells us basically nothing whatsoever that we didn't already know...
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Sorry I do not.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Nor does it say the original Brixton Masterplan (agreed by Cabinet and also consulted on ) specifically says the Rec will be kept.
The SPD , as Cllr Lib Peck, said at a recent meeting is to give the Brixton Masterplan "teeth". The Masterplan is what the Council aspires to for Brixton. The SPD for Brixton is a planning document that developers and the Council will have to work within.
So the SPD is not a document for "considering" ideas.
Nor is it "early days". There was a lot of consultation on the Brixton Masterplan. Its not "early days". The formal draft for the SPD will be consulted on from beginning of next year. Only a few months away. This formal consultation will need a finished document that the Council want. It can still be altered after formal consultation period. But it will state the Councils aspirations for the area.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
In fact the Cabinet agreed the Brixton Masterplan which guarantees that the (Labour) Council would protect the Rec. So a decision was made by the Labour Council. It would be more accurate to say that the Labour Council is revisiting its decision to support , what it called, the much loved Rec.
I assume she is referring to Brixton Blog. This is not speculation.
I have looked at BB and this thread. Maybe I missed something but where does she get here quotes from? (edited to say found the referance see post below)
I got more measured reply from my local Labour Cllr. But saying the same. That the press had made to much of this, that no decisions had been made, link to Future Brixton and that he did not want Brixton to lose leisure facilities ( not the same as supporting Rec). But no reply that he would oppose the wording of SPD.
So looks like this will be the Labour groups position at the moment.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Found it. Its on the LD website. Her quotes are from the LD website. Why did she not just say so? Does she think people cannot use the internet ? Should have known.
More interested in hating each other than listening to what people say here and on Brixton Blog.Though sadly the LD article is not exactly supporting Rec either.
Found it. Its on the LD website. Her quotes are from the LD website. Why did she not just say so? Does she think people cannot use the internet ? Should have known.
Though sadly the LD article is not exactly supporting Rec either.
I replied to her about how I'd so far found all the consultations I'd tried to be a part of inaccessible and lacking in transparency, which I have. I told her I hoped this would not be the case again and also asked for an explanation as to why Streatham still did not have it's leisure facilities.
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
ahh.. Jeremy Clyne did reply about this and the pool is currently being built it seems but there are lots of unsatisfactory issues over it. For example apparently there have been no stakeholder meetings for the "non ice" users of the Recreation Centre, which means that Tesco and the Council have just designed it as they wish. It appears there was a meeting finally held a few weeks back where lots of users expressed concerns over the changing facilities and other areas but apparently it is now too late to change anything. Allegedly promisese were also made to make sure that there was reprovision of the pre-exisiting facitilies (such as the sauna and steam rooms) but (whilst some other additional facilities such as a sports hall have been provided) they have been left out.
This is EXACTLY what I am concerned for with Brixton Rec. that.. they will tear it down, rebuild somewhere else (eventually) with a fraction of the services currently being provided, or the services they feel are needed rather than those users actually wish to have. I simply cannot believe that we will get "as good" or "better". It is bound to be smaller, more cramped, more expensive... the kind of "changing village" that we see in Clapham, E. Dulwich etc etc. Will ALL the money raised by selling the land the Rec is currently built on be ploughed back into the new Recreation Centre? Will there be guarantees that the cost of entry will remain the same for a reasonable period after the opening of a new centre (not just for a few months and then suddenly a huge increase?).
I think the dark ramp thing.. it's an excuse to sell that land for more flats, shops etc. So much money was spent on the refurb - if they are still worried about the ramp etc, why not think creatively? Open up a competition to create a "tunnel of light" amongst lighting companies/artists etc... make it somewhere that people will come from just to see. Get some large paint companies to sponsor/work with students at local art colleges to "brighten up" the Rec etc. Maybe those ideas are just fanciful - I'm not a businesswoman but I really do think it must be possible to find other ways of making the Rec more profitable. Work with the community, not just with property developers and more chain stores.
Ms Ordinary
randompointlesschemistry
Emailing councillors - is it better to email them individually or just cc in everyone?
(i.e. your own ward councillors plus the cabinet member ones)
Someone I spoke to (about a different matter) reckoned a big cc list had a kind of snowball effect but I couldn't quite work out what she was getting at.
(i.e. your own ward councillors plus the cabinet member ones)
Someone I spoke to (about a different matter) reckoned a big cc list had a kind of snowball effect but I couldn't quite work out what she was getting at.
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
I emailed all three of mine at once and got a response from one which suggested that the 3 of them had discussed it together and indeed are bringing it up at a meeting soon. My response copied in the other 2 councillors.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On an issue like this I email all three. Unless you have cllrs from different political parties. I have emailed all three Coldharbour ward cllrs starting "Dear Ward Cllrs" to start with. Giving them a chance to respond first.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The email I sent
Dear Ward Cllrs,
I attend the Brixton Rec User Group meeting on Monday 29th October. This was well attended meeting with a representative cross section of Brixton. It was agreed that the feeling of those attending the meeting was that the Brixton Rec should be kept. That this should be written into the SPDs for the Brixton area.
It was also agreed that people should email there local Cllrs about this.
Recently in the consultation on the Supplementary Planning Documents (SPDs) ,for the Brixton Masterplan area, officers suggested as an idea that the Rec could be demolished, the land sold to developer and a new Rec built nearby with a Section 106 agreement. This is in the recent draft consultation SPD
I have used the Rec for swimming for a long time. It is a large friendly pool. With space for all. Parents with infants, children and lane swimmers. All in one space without feeling crowded. It is a nice place to swim. It is a place where all ages and races mix. So is representative of the what is best in Brixton.
I would also like to point out that the last time the Rec was under threat was in a Tory/ LD Council. The Labour Group at the time did a lot to oppose the plans of the Tory/ LD administration to demolish it.
See here minutes from 2008 where it is clearly stated what the Labour group did in opposition to the Tory/LD plans.
background information:
I have looked up the old Masterplan. In that the Rec is to be kept. This was agreed by Cabinet but does not have planning weight. That is what SPDs are for. So this is change from Masterplan. Page 108 section called "Brixton Section Road" 5.1.10 of the Brixton Masterplan says under heading "Brixton Rec":
"The Rec will be refurbished and opened up as a major community resource, incorporating retail, leisure facilities and social infrastructure. The potential to open up the frontage of the Rec is being reviewed, including the implementation of ground level access and new signage along Brixton Station Road. The Masterplan recognises further potential to review the blind eastern frontage of the building. The potential to better and more appropriately enclose the service yards, currently contained by palisaded gates and open gates and open security fencing to the northern end of the street, will also be reviewed."
FYI this is what it says in the draft SPD doc that was used for recent consultation
from page 27
Dear Ward Cllrs,
I attend the Brixton Rec User Group meeting on Monday 29th October. This was well attended meeting with a representative cross section of Brixton. It was agreed that the feeling of those attending the meeting was that the Brixton Rec should be kept. That this should be written into the SPDs for the Brixton area.
It was also agreed that people should email there local Cllrs about this.
Recently in the consultation on the Supplementary Planning Documents (SPDs) ,for the Brixton Masterplan area, officers suggested as an idea that the Rec could be demolished, the land sold to developer and a new Rec built nearby with a Section 106 agreement. This is in the recent draft consultation SPD
I have used the Rec for swimming for a long time. It is a large friendly pool. With space for all. Parents with infants, children and lane swimmers. All in one space without feeling crowded. It is a nice place to swim. It is a place where all ages and races mix. So is representative of the what is best in Brixton.
I would also like to point out that the last time the Rec was under threat was in a Tory/ LD Council. The Labour Group at the time did a lot to oppose the plans of the Tory/ LD administration to demolish it.
See here minutes from 2008 where it is clearly stated what the Labour group did in opposition to the Tory/LD plans.
background information:
I have looked up the old Masterplan. In that the Rec is to be kept. This was agreed by Cabinet but does not have planning weight. That is what SPDs are for. So this is change from Masterplan. Page 108 section called "Brixton Section Road" 5.1.10 of the Brixton Masterplan says under heading "Brixton Rec":
"The Rec will be refurbished and opened up as a major community resource, incorporating retail, leisure facilities and social infrastructure. The potential to open up the frontage of the Rec is being reviewed, including the implementation of ground level access and new signage along Brixton Station Road. The Masterplan recognises further potential to review the blind eastern frontage of the building. The potential to better and more appropriately enclose the service yards, currently contained by palisaded gates and open gates and open security fencing to the northern end of the street, will also be reviewed."
FYI this is what it says in the draft SPD doc that was used for recent consultation
from page 27
• Brixton Recreation Centre: The current facility is much loved,
enormously popular and serves the entire Borough and beyond. However,
many residents think it is inaccessible because current access arrangements
require the use of an exterior flight of stairs or a long ramp which is dark
and not particularly welcoming. The building is large although much of the
interior space is not efficiently used.
The building is in need of significant levels of ongoing investment and
running costs are forecast to continue to rise significantly. If a decision is
taken to work towards securing a new replacement facility, the temporary
ice rink site may be an appropriate location. If this was the case, the
release of the existing site would present an opportunity to attract new retail-
led investment to this prominent town centre location. The ground floor
provides flexibility for a range of retail uses, with the most appropriate mix
likely to involve a limited amount of new food retail floorspace together with
comparison floorspace to complement the existing pattern of high street and
independent trading in the town. The site presents a major opportunity for
high density mixed residential development on upper floors which takes
account of the exceptional public transport accessibility of the site. Should
a suitable user come forward, the site would also be appropriate for other
town centre/community/education uses. If the site is redeveloped,
advantage should be taken of the existing basement accommodation as this
provides potential for the incorporation of basement parking.
article from Brixton Blog here.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
I emailed all three councillors and got a reply from one saying that the boss (Lib Peck) would reply more fully in due course. She basically echoed the same arguments that are in the planning doc - i.e. that centre is well used and loved but is too expensive to run:
Although they say no decision has yet been made, it sounds very much like they have a strong preference for replacement of the Rec.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
You may be right. It's madness. You grow to love that place.
boohoo
No.
Did you see the Lip Peck tweet the other week about how please they were that the new pools/leisure centre were done under Labour in Lambeth.
That email response sounds like a civil service cut and paste job... which I'm beginning to think it is. I'd like to know what the accessibility issue is. So far, it's fine for parents with buggies.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
I know BRUG members and others are trying to find this out. I know at least one FOI request has been put in too, maybe more.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It this according to officers
FYI this is what it says in the draft SPD doc that was used for recent consultation
from page 27
It was already dealt with in the original Brixton Masterplan by altering the front of building.
My reply also looks like the Labour Cllrs are all singing of the same hymn-sheet on the issue of the Rec. Some of the wording is similar. I wonder if Labour Cllrs got briefed on it? Make sense politically.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree. But its frustrating that they will not come clean and say that there preference is to replace it. Then we can have a real debate.
What I think could happen is that the next months will be spent by Council discussing and "consulting" but saying no "decision" has been made.
Then the SPD will be worded in a vague fashion. That officers will "explore" options.
Two years later they assume people all will be so tired of it all that they will accept a replacement. The Rec will also not get any major maintenance and so later on officers will say its has to be replaced as its unfeasible to upgrade.
Call me cynical but thats the long term strategy. Above all officers and Cllrs will be careful never say definitively that the Council wants the Rec to move off that piece of real estate.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Is it possible to get a Freedom of Information thing about costs of running, income, user numbers etc? Or is that out there anyway, somewhere?
How much would it cost to build something that would provide the same amount of activity/capacity? I suppose the idea would be to fund it from selling that land and moving it somewhere less central and cheaper and, in the end, smaller with fewer functions. Or some PPI thing like Streatham Hub...
Is it possible to get FOI on emails between ward councillors which mention 'Brixton Rec' or whatever?
How much would it cost to build something that would provide the same amount of activity/capacity? I suppose the idea would be to fund it from selling that land and moving it somewhere less central and cheaper and, in the end, smaller with fewer functions. Or some PPI thing like Streatham Hub...
Is it possible to get FOI on emails between ward councillors which mention 'Brixton Rec' or whatever?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I found on Lambeth website the following comment on the new lighting.( Here is website of the company that made the new lighting on outside of Rec.)
So somehow this got forgotten when the draft consultation SPD was written. Or is this lighting now regarded as a failure?
this is what it says in the draft SPD doc that was used for recent consultation
from page 27
So somehow this got forgotten when the draft consultation SPD was written. Or is this lighting now regarded as a failure?
this is what it says in the draft SPD doc that was used for recent consultation
from page 27
