Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Summer - Autumn 2018

[T & P]

T & P would you support a nationwide 20mph limit in built-up areas, strictly enforced? By strictly enforced I mean that if you're caught going at 25mph you get, say, a 6 month driving ban, next time a permanent ban.

A blanket limit that doesn’t take into consideration the nature of many main throroughfares in which the current limit is perfectly adequate? No, absolutely not. Happy for all secondary residential streets to get a 20moh but on many main roads that would be an absurd overkill and not fit for purpose.

As to the punishments you suggest, i can think of various reasons why that would be a monumental error. For starters, it is actually quite easy to to hit 25 mph from time to time even if one is consciously and strictly adhering to the 20 mph. Many cars are not optimised for easy cruising at very low speeds and a slightly harder than hoped push on the accelerator will propel most modern cars 5-8 moh faster even if momentary. With others, specially older ones, the speedometer is not so precise at very low speeds and I’ve seen many a speedometer needle fluctuate aimlessly before it hits the low 20s.

Within months of such measures being introduced, many thousands of safe and responsible drivers would most likely have been caught and put on a one-more-strike and you-are-banned-for-life status, which would be an indescribably harsh and unfair punishment. Life bans should be applied to the most serious of infractions, not to something that in most cases will have caused no hazard at all or a very small one.

Such over the top punishments would also make many drivers so fearful they would spend a great amount of time watching their speedometer instead of the road. Accidents would undoubtedly result from it, a type of which there are likely very few of with the current set up.

The pollution issue is also potentially significant. Far more people are killed by emissions than by collisions. I can’t see how vehicles constantly travelling at speeds of 15-18 mph won’t produce more pollutants than the same vehicles sometimes travelling at 27-30 mph, which has to be more efficient.

 

[rlw]

Bloody hell. Perhaps the bubble of endless new eateries has finally burst in Brixton.

Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton

 

[editor]

Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton

Thst stretch is going to be even more Kensington when this lot open.

 

[Gramsci]

Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton

When I think Italian cafe I think a cafe. Like longstanding Bruno's in Soho.

No more.

I really hate what I see happening to Brixton. And London in general.

 

[ricbake]

Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton

Isn't San Marino an Italian cafe?

 

[SpamMisery]

It's an independent republic

 

[Gramsci]

Isn't San Marino an Italian cafe?

San Marino lacks an underground cocktail bar. An integral part of Italian cafe culture.

 

[bimble]

Anyone with children looking for a fun & free place to go try Grove Adventure Playground up the road.. open now (finally !) its a lovely place, proper adventure playground and there's experienced playworkers staffing it so you can leave your children (aged 6 to 14) to have fun without you.
mysite

 

[ricbake]

It's an independent republic

Not in the context of
Brixton news, rumours and general chat

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Just seen this on the Our Brixton Facebook page:



URGENT

A black workman has just been physically assaulted by a police officer off coldharbour lane. EVERYONE TO BRIXTON POLICE STATION NOW.

Reports from people on the ground are that he was in a stationary vehicle not wearing a seatbelt. He was asked to provide his details. He did not comply immediately and was thrown to the floor and arrested. (Incident took place around 11:45am)

His brother and colleagues are requesting for people to gather outside Brixton police station ASAP to demand his immediate release. Please spread the word.

 

[SpamMisery]

Not in the context of
Brixton news, rumours and general chat

Sorry I don't see your point. San Marino is not part of Italy so I would expect they are a San Marinese cafe, not an Italian cafe.

 

[ricbake]

Brixton People: the Italians of Brixton
Guide to work-friendly Brixton cafes: San Marino, Brixton Road, SW9

 

[SpamMisery]

Whilst Buzz and Brixton Blog are undoubtedly infallible sources, San Marino's website doesn't describe themselves as Italian (or San Marinese for that matter). Fair enough if they want to describe themselves as Italian, but I would have thought it would be a bit like calling a Scot, English.

 

[ricbake]

Whilst Buzz and Brixton Blog are undoubtedly infallible sources, San Marino's website doesn't describe themselves as Italian (or San Marinese for that matter). Fair enough if they want to describe themselves as Italian, but I would have thought it would be a bit like calling a Scot, English.

And that it says "Italian Coffee Bar" above the door has no relevance to passing trolls

 

[editor]

And that it says "Italian Coffee Bar" above the door has no relevance to passing trolls

He's now banned from this thread.

 

[SpamMisery]

Fair enough. Not noticed that

 

[CH1]

Just seen this on the Our Brixton Facebook page:
A black workman has just been physically assaulted by a police officer off coldharbour lane. EVERYONE TO BRIXTON POLICE STATION NOW.
Reports from people on the ground are that he was in a stationary vehicle not wearing a seatbelt. He was asked to provide his details. He did not comply immediately and was thrown to the floor and arrested. (Incident took place around 11:45am)
His brother and colleagues are requesting for people to gather outside Brixton police station ASAP to demand his immediate release. Please spread the word.

Dunno about this - but I can confirm multiple police were doing "an operation" corner of Rushcroft Road and Coldharbour Lane this morning.

I saw it about 9.15 am when I went to a get paper, and then again at 11.50 am when I was going into town.
Not clear what the police were inspecting. 9.15 am was very dead/quiet and they seemed to be eyeing Connaught Mansions. I wondered if they were waing for rogue JP Morgan bankers who consort there.

At 11.50 I was walking just behind a couple of large fit white guys in white T shirts. I had thought these men were estate agents on a dress down Monday - but they gave the unformed officers on the other side of the road a cheery wave - so I guess they could well have been plain clothes police officers on a dress-down mission. The uniformed PCs/WPCs meanwhile were talking to an elderly Nigerian woman getting out of a taxi. Hopefully not wanting full certification for every year since the year dot.

 

[snowy_again]

There's a big fire somewhere east of here - Blackheath / Welling sort of way

 

[editor]

This lot went thumping down Coldharbour Lane on Saturday morning. I thought that they were scouts at first, but they were some variant of God Squad Adventism.

 

[editor]

And how come this tent is allowed to trade every day of the week on Windrush Square? Weren't we supposed to be getting a cafe of some sort?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I was sitting outside the Ritzy just now and it all nearly kicked off on the square.

Some kind of quarrel amongst the lot who sit about on the chairs developed into a running fight, and then a knife was pulled out. Bicycles were used as shields, people were charging about chasing each other for a good five minutes, and then it all settled down into fierce discussion and rough-housing, and then several of them belted off on their bikes and it was all over.

Hot town summer in the city.

 

[editor]

I was sitting outside the Ritzy just now and it all nearly kicked off on the square.

Some kind of quarrel amongst the lot who sit about on the chairs developed into a running fight, and then a knife was pulled out. Bicycles were used as shields, people were charging about chasing each other for a good five minutes, and then it all settled down into fierce discussion and rough-housing, and then several of them belted off on their bikes and it was all over.

Hot town summer in the city.

I hope the CCTV got a nice close up of the big hero with a knife.

 

[editor]

A little Brixton nocturne

In photos: late night jamming in Windrush Square, Brixton

 

[teuchter]

A blanket limit that doesn’t take into consideration the nature of many main throroughfares in which the current limit is perfectly adequate? No, absolutely not. Happy for all secondary residential streets to get a 20moh but on many main roads that would be an absurd overkill and not fit for purpose.

As to the punishments you suggest, i can think of various reasons why that would be a monumental error. For starters, it is actually quite easy to to hit 25 mph from time to time even if one is consciously and strictly adhering to the 20 mph. Many cars are not optimised for easy cruising at very low speeds and a slightly harder than hoped push on the accelerator will propel most modern cars 5-8 moh faster even if momentary. With others, specially older ones, the speedometer is not so precise at very low speeds and I’ve seen many a speedometer needle fluctuate aimlessly before it hits the low 20s.

Within months of such measures being introduced, many thousands of safe and responsible drivers would most likely have been caught and put on a one-more-strike and you-are-banned-for-life status, which would be an indescribably harsh and unfair punishment. Life bans should be applied to the most serious of infractions, not to something that in most cases will have caused no hazard at all or a very small one.

Such over the top punishments would also make many drivers so fearful they would spend a great amount of time watching their speedometer instead of the road. Accidents would undoubtedly result from it, a type of which there are likely very few of with the current set up.

The pollution issue is also potentially significant. Far more people are killed by emissions than by collisions. I can’t see how vehicles constantly travelling at speeds of 15-18 mph won’t produce more pollutants than the same vehicles sometimes travelling at 27-30 mph, which has to be more efficient.

We've been through most of this before on other threads. The idea that slower speeds produces worse air pollution is completely evidence-free (in fact I'm pretty sure the opposite is true). So is the nonsense about people being unable to keep their eye on a speedo and drive safely. "Accidents would undoubtedly result"? Where's the evidence for this? If stricter enforcement made people fearful about their ability to stick to speed limits perhaps that would be the impetus for the market to provide tecnological solutions such as speed limiters, which in my opinion should already exist.

All these reasons you give are just excuses, they are just excuses to give cover for what your real feeling is which is that 20mph limits are fundamentally unnecessary, I think. That's what a lot of motorists think - they don't even think they should apply on secondary residential routes. This 20mph business is something imposed on them that restricts their freedom and challenges their wish to make their own judgements about when it is and isn't safe to stick to the limit. The desired leeway and lax enforcement isn't really about making sure accidents do't result from 'fearful' drivers - it's because people want it to be them themselves who decides when they don't bother with the 20mph limit. And the funny thing is that you seem really bothered about pedestrians making their own decisions about where and when they cross the road. You want flexible, we-won't-really-enforce-them rules for drivers but don't like it when pedestrians cross the road in central Brixton outside of the controlled crossings - you are bothered by them not sacrificing however many seconds of their day to go and cross the road in 'proper' fashion but you don't want to drive at 20mph on what you call main thoroughfares, presumably because you don't want to sacrifice a similar number of seconds of your own life in getting to your destination marginally later.

As always, when looking at this comparison between pedestrians and drivers, both taking risks to get somewhere a bit quicker, what has to be borne in mind is: the risks pedestrians take are mainly to themselves, but the risks drivers take aren't.

 

[Gramsci]

All these reasons you give are just excuses, they are just excuses to give cover for what your real feeling is which is that 20mph limits are fundamentally unnecessary, I think. That's what a lot of motorists think - they don't even think they should apply on secondary residential routes. This 20mph business is something imposed on them that restricts their freedom and challenges their wish to make their own judgements about when it is and isn't safe to stick to the limit.

You want flexible, we-won't-really-enforce-them rules for drivers but don't like it when pedestrians cross the road in central Brixton outside of the controlled crossings - you are bothered by them not sacrificing however many seconds of their day to go and cross the road in 'proper' fashion but you don't want to drive at 20mph on what you call main thoroughfares, presumably because you don't want to sacrifice a similar number of seconds of your own life in getting to your destination marginally later.

t.

I agree with both of these.

And the lower speeds cause more pollution argument from car drivers is disingenuous.

The whole line of argument is based around "freedom". But imo a very Thatcherite way. Which is now seen as commonsense.

 

[teuchter]

Here's where the pollution thing was discussed before.

 

[T & P]

Actually teuchter i have never said nor am I bothered by pedestrians crossing at places other than ped crossings. I do it myself all the time if it is safe to do so. What I object to is people not having the common sense or decency to do something as simple yet crucial as looking at all for hazards before crossing the road, as the two helmet cam videos posted upthread show multiple examples of.

I want to reply to the rest of the comments In your latest post, but I hope you’ll agree this thread is not the best place to continue discussing this subject further at length, which i’m more than happy to do. I’ll probably start a thread on the transport forum, and hope you, Gramsci and anyone else here interested will join in when I do.

 

[teuchter]

Actually teuchter i have never said nor am I bothered by pedestrians crossing at places other than ped crossings.

I'm not sure that's entirely true.

Sure. But there should also be signs warning pedestrians against taking their chances against moving traffic when there are not one but two traffic light-regulated pedestrian crossings in that short stretch of road that offer extremely safe crossings to pedestrians if only they can spare 30 seconds until the lights change.

Not speculating what might have happened here of course, but every single time I have been present on that stretch of road I've witnessed dozens of people coming off buses and dodging moving traffic to get to the Tube all those few precious seconds earlier. If the government ever considered introducing a pilot jaywalking scheme, Brixton Road outside the Tube has to be the most obvious choice in the entire country.

I don't think the helmet cams give multiple examples of people not looking for hazards, by the way. They do show people running across even when vehicles are far enough away that they'd have plenty of time to slow down. I see people wanting to the cross the road who are aware of the speeding and aggressive driving that they are up against. And I see people cutting a bit of a corner, yes, from pavement to crossing in a hurry to get across the pedestrian crossing in the moments that they are allowed to.

 

[Gramsci]

And how come this tent is allowed to trade every day of the week on Windrush Square? Weren't we supposed to be getting a cafe of some sort?

View attachment 141984

From what I remember being told by someone from Friends of Windrush square is that this done with permission of Council. They get money for it.

Its in danger of being permanent feature not just every now and then. Its an eyesore. And its not on edge of square. Council in there wisdom decided to site it in middle.

Council view is that they need the cash.

 

[editor]

From what I remember being told by someone from Friends of Windrush square is that this done with permission of Council. They get money for it.

Its in danger of being permanent feature not just every now and then. Its an eyesore. And its not on edge of square. Council in there wisdom decided to site it in middle.

Council view is that they need the cash.

It does look shit. I wonder how much they're getting for it and why only this one business is allowed to be there permanently?