Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Brixton news, rumours and general chat - March 2013

Status
Not open for further replies.
editor said:
Eh? What 'signs' were these? Did you go the previous nights? Which ones are you referring to?
Click to expand...

I din't mention previous nights. You said:
By all accounts, most of the people there on that night were totally disrespectful from the start, really taking the piss and treating the staff badly.
Click to expand...
 
Kanda said:
I'd say that's a bit paranoid.

The licensing act:

The Act sets out four licensing objectives which must be taken into account when a local authority carries out its functions. They are:
  1. the prevention of crime and disorder,
  2. public safety,
  3. prevention of public nuisance, and
  4. the protection of children from harm
Now, if licencee's are not doing enough to fit in with the above objectives, what do you propose the police do???
It's not an unreasonable act to fit in with, if you don't comply with it you'll get shit like ID machines etc. If you do comply, you'll have no such issues.
Click to expand...


Id say ur complacent and do not understand what civil liberties are about.

The police can insist on a new security firm and other measures to ensure this does not happen again.

None of the 4 points needs ID scanning.
 
Kanda said:
Gun shouldn't have got in the club. Nor should the knife they found.

That's 2 breaches right there. I'm not anti 414, I hope it doesn't close but if you have lapses to your licence like that I don't think there is much argument against a more stringent license requirement. especially considering the severity of what happened.
Click to expand...

I know what. How about banning Reggae events? As these are the ones that attract trouble from what is said here. I do not see why the other events at 414 should suffer.
 
BJM2012 said:
Bear in mind that Lambeth is going apeshit over the so-called "nighttime economy" at the moment. They see the decisions made in the past as mistakes, when licenses were dished out to anyone who applied and new bars inherited old ones. Hence why they want to curb Clapham High Street and make sure clubs in Brixton fall in line.

I get the sense that if you give them any indication that you're not running the premise tightly, you could have your licence suspended. There'll be more of this, I guarantee it.
Click to expand...

Thats the noise issue.

What irritates me is that the Cllrs get all up themselves about supporting the police.

The real issue is one of noise. The Cllrs do nothing about it.

I live in central Brixton. The shooting was a criminal action that the police can pursue.

The venues can be covered by CCTV, metal detectors, properly qualified security and all the rest of it.

I do not want venues in Brixton to have ID machines. I think its an infringement of law abiding citizens right to pursue there personal lives without being recorded and info handed over to police or other authorities.

Its not being paranoid to want to go about ones life incognito.

It might be hard for the likes of Kanda to understand this. But imo this country unlike others used to have a proud history of civil liberty. ie the state should leave one alone unless one is harming others.
 
Im being paranoid. Here is someone from House of Lords getting paranoid:

We also spoke at length to Cross-bench peer the Earl of Errol, who has played a significant part in raising issues of surveillance in the Lords. He praised El Reg for raising the issue and said: "It is perfectly legitimate for the Government to seek to regulate access to certain commodities – alcohol, tobacco and so on: however, that does not automatically mean that wholesale ID checking and creation of individual databases is the only way to police this.
"Privacy is being eroded bit by bit, not some single killing blow, but death by a thousand cuts. Something that might be justified on a one-off basis with suitable safeguards in place becomes increasingly dangerous as that same policy is implemented a hundred times – or becomes commonplace in every licensed establishment in the country.
"I do not think that what we get up to in private is anyone else’s business: yet if we keep adding small restrictions we will wake up to find we have no privacy left.
"It is also questionable as to whether policies of mass observation serve any useful purpose, apart from making us all feel less private. It is not possible to prevent everything: the police do not have the resources to do so; and it is questionable whether we want them ever to have such powers.
"This small scale ID scanning poses horrendous risks for individual liberty and security. It is not unthinkable that a future government would wish access to all the systems it creates, thereby adding another increase to government control and intrusion into our daily lives."
Describing the Home Office’s approach to this issue as disingenuous, he finished by saying that the entire age-checking industry was a Trojan Horse for ID – and that he will now be taking the matter further with Government and Ministers. ®
Click to expand...
 
Gramsci said:
Thats the noise issue.

What irritates me is that the Cllrs get all up themselves about supporting the police.

The real issue is one of noise. The Cllrs do nothing about it.

I live in central Brixton. The shooting was a criminal action that the police can pursue.

The venues can be covered by CCTV, metal detectors, properly qualified security and all the rest of it.

I do not want venues in Brixton to have ID machines. I think its an infringement of law abiding citizens right to pursue there personal lives without being recorded and info handed over to police or other authorities.

Its not being paranoid to want to go about ones life incognito.

It might be hard for the likes of Kanda to understand this. But imo this country unlike others used to have a proud history of civil liberty. ie the state should leave one alone unless one is harming others.
Click to expand...
fucking yes^^^
 
Surveillance generally annoys me only when it is an inconvenience - or is used by police at protests etc. ANPR and CCTV I can live with.
 
Unless you use cash everywhere and turn your mobile phone off then surely people can tell where you were and when you were there anyway, so this whole "anonymousness" of not having to show ID is rather a pointless protest?
 
ajdown said:
Unless you use cash everywhere and turn your mobile phone off then surely people can tell where you were and when you were there anyway, so this whole "anonymousness" of not having to show ID is rather a pointless protest?
Click to expand...

The issue is lack of choice.

I do use cash in pubs/ bars.

my mobile is unregistered payg.
 
Gramsci said:
I know what. How about banning Reggae events? As these are the ones that attract trouble from what is said here. I do not see why the other events at 414 should suffer.
Click to expand...
Problem is, not all reggae events attract problems. A reggae ban would be accused of being racist / discriminatory policy since the genre is obviously so closely associated with Caribbean culture. That said, the police allowed Mass to have certain nights organised by outside promoters only if they met additional security arrangements. This from the licence:

Additional conditions in the event of outside promoters organising events such as R&B, garage, hip hop and the like

1) Metal detecting arch to be employed to search all persons entering the premises.

2) Promoters to supply details of address and provide photo ID for himself and performers.

3) Promoters of events to have permanent, verifiable office premises.

4) Promoters to have permanent, verifiable landline phone.

5) Promoters to have a company chequebook.

6) Promoters/licensees to give police at least 3 weeks notice of band booked for an event at the premises.

7) Three references from band stating where they have performed before in similar type/sized premises.

8) No booking of bands before police agreement.

9) Licensees to take police advice as to bands allowed to play at the venue.

10) Extra security personnel to patrol grounds surrounding premises to maintain order.​
Click to expand...
​
 
Gramsci said:
The issue is lack of choice.

I do use cash in pubs/ bars.

my mobile is unregistered payg.
Click to expand...
For some strange reason of principle, my Oyster is cash only PAYG. But if I was particularly naughty it would not be hard to associate it with me. Like a phone, its whereabouts is still known even if anyone accessing the information can't immediately put a name to it.
 
Gramsci said:
Thats the noise issue.

What irritates me is that the Cllrs get all up themselves about supporting the police.

The real issue is one of noise. The Cllrs do nothing about it.

I live in central Brixton. The shooting was a criminal action that the police can pursue.

The venues can be covered by CCTV, metal detectors, properly qualified security and all the rest of it.

I do not want venues in Brixton to have ID machines. I think its an infringement of law abiding citizens right to pursue there personal lives without being recorded and info handed over to police or other authorities.

Its not being paranoid to want to go about ones life incognito.

It might be hard for the likes of Kanda to understand this. But imo this country unlike others used to have a proud history of civil liberty. ie the state should leave one alone unless one is harming others.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you say above although it seems a bit rough / patronising to suggest "the likes of Kanda" would find it difficult to understand.

If ID machines allowed people to go to particular events which otherwise might be banned or unusually dangerous then there might be an argument that it actually upholds personal freedoms. For instance, how many people would choose to fly if there were no ID checks on planes? How the data is used and stored is obviously an issue though.

I also think this is a separate issue from whether the 414 has been punished or victimised in reaction to the shooting incident. They are only being victimised if they are being treated differently / disproportionately to other local venues which have had security issues, which does not appear to be the case (Dogstar, Hootenanny, PlanB,etc..). Whether those generally applied measures are fair / proportionate / against civil liberties is not a specifically 414 issue.

The Cllrs do appear to defer to police opinion most of the time although it is possible that they challenge them more often than I realise. I guess few have the inclination to take responsibility for something which happens as a result of police advice being blatantly ignored. Which is understandable given that few Cllrs are security experts and the police supposedly are.
 
Rushy said:
Problem is, not all reggae events attract problems. A reggae ban would be accused of being racist / discriminatory policy since the genre is obviously so closely associated with Caribbean culture. That said, the police allowed Mass to have certain nights organised by outside promoters only if they met additional security arrangements. This from the licence:

​
Click to expand...


I thought that would be the reason. From what has been said here 414 took a risk having a Reggae night. Im sure the police know that its not the other events at 414 that could be a problem. Its an aspect of a certain type of Caribbean culture that violence is associated with it. Better imo to say it and deal with it on that basis.
 
Frumious B. said:
And the data is bound to be abused, misused, lost, left on a laptop on a bus, hacked, sold to newspapers etc.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine was telling me the other day that she had worked as a contractor at MI5. She had partial security clearance which allowed her access to the building and data but she had to accompanied everywhere and couldn't leave the building with info. She was offered the chance to go through the process for full security clearance so that she would be able to take info back to her office / continue working without a shadow but she turned it down because a) the interview was apparently very very personal and in depth and b) she was always losing her phone an didn't trust herself with a PC full of data!
 
Rushy said:
414 has had its licence immediately restored. Looks like the police were very much on side and supported the club.

http://www.brixtonblog.com/club-414-license-restored-after-it-is-praised-by-police/10813

The club say they are very happy with the outcome, including the new conditions.

Good luck to them.
Click to expand...

Good news. I think it also shows evidence that the licensing teams in both the police and council are actually there to help rather than hinder, which is encouraging.
 
Kanda said:
Good news. I think it also shows evidence that the licensing teams in both the police and council are actually there to help rather than hinder, which is encouraging.
Click to expand...

Not so sure it says much about licensing.They have a history of being pretty hands off and disinterested - almost purely administrative. They let problems drag on for ever and ever. They are just rubber stamping a police driven initiative. The police are pretty pro-active so it works with respect to safety. Environment is much less proactive, which is why it does not work for nuisance such as noise problems which Gramsci has pointed to. Cllrs pay lip service to helping but I have a list as long as my arm of Cllrs who have expressed deep concern about nuisance and asked me to put concerns and evidence to them in writing, which takes time, only to never hear from them again.

My neighbour was so fed up with the repeated promises and lack of response to noise complaints that she wrote to Chukka who replied that he does not interfere with the work of elected cllrs. She is elderly and is up all night listening to Electric Social, Fridge Bar and (not any more) Dex - none of which existed when she moved into her flat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

editor
Cyclist killed in Brixton
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
T & P
T & P
blameless77
After work pint in Brixton?
Replies
8
Views
519
story
story
editor
Homophobia in Brixton
2
Replies
38
Views
5K
Tulster218
T
editor
It's a grim Christmas around Brixton: no lights, no tree and no funfair
Replies
1
Views
723
skyscraper101
skyscraper101
editor
Where to watch England vs Spain Euro 2024 final in Brixton
Replies
6
Views
485
madolesance
M
Back
Top Bottom