aka
Brixton Hill
Bad Blood is a cracking read. For the record Elizabeth Murdoch has nothing to do with it (apart from her Dad spaffs a few quid) - it's Liz Holmes.
Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn 2019
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Any biases of secondary sources are important in analysing their opinions.
it’s not rocket science
editor
hiraethified
Yet you seem reluctant to comment on - or even acknowledge - the clear and well documented Tory bias, misinformation and downright lies that were broadcasted on the front page of newspapers and via an expensive social media campaign, all of which were of a massively greater scale than this one, fairly inconsequential, website. Why is that?Any biases of secondary sources are important in analysing their opinions.
it’s not rocket science
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Blair brought us the Iraq war. A foreign policy which sent young people to their deaths. For what? Going to war is the single biggest decision the leader of this country can make.
This was not an aberration of New Labour thinking. Being seen to be supporter of US was intrinsic part of the Third Way.
Even Harold Wilson , to his credit, refused to sent a token force to Vietnam. Despite a lot of pressure from US.
Corbyn led Labour party was accused of not being "patriotic".
Its how far to the right this country has moved that Corbyn could be portrayed as a danger to this countries security if elected.
So what kind of leader do you want for this country?
Again you are extrapolating from minimal data to ascribe intentions that are erroneous.
It’s basically what Trump does, and it’s bollocks when he does it and it’s bollocks when you do it I’m afraid
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I was wondering today if you are a troll.
Why are you posting up about so called "liberal bias" when a few posts your saying the ideas in Labour party manifesto are great? Which in itself doesn't ring true as previous posts you said the economic plans were bonkers.
I've looked you up and you are new poster here. Seem very good at this for a new poster.
You tend to ignore my posts . Or change tack after them. Whilst trying to make out the editor posts are easily up for criticising.
Why are you here on Urban?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The gist of the article is that anyone who is the leader of the Labour party on a avowedly left wing manifesto ( In Labour party terms) is going to be hammered by media.
This I would have thought is obvious.
To all except some posters here (Big Bertha )and my Labour Clllrs
Had a chat with one of my New Labour Cllrs during election.
On Corbyn he was not enthusiastic. I said whoever is the leader on this platform will get stick. I pointed out Ed Miliband did for his mildly left programme. My Cllr agreed on that grudgingly.
Its fucking obvious that any Labour party leader will get a hard time if he / she tries to rein in big business and the City.
This of course would not apply to the Tories. Or the LDs
Its why New Labour strategy was not to upset the City to much. At least in public. Which worked up to a point. But didn't work when inevitably Brown "light touch regulation" of the vampire squids failed. And Labour party still get blamed for that. Heard it again today on Any Questions.
Brown saved the Bankers from the mess they made and the same scum and their hangers on blame Blair / Brown .
IMO anyone who works high up in the City is the enemy, Same goes for big business
Corbyn upfront criticism of Big business and the parasites in the City was always going to dealt with by personalised attacks on him as a person.
Its all credit to him that he took this with grace.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Recently moved back to Brixton, used to be a bit of a lurker. Thought I might join in a bit, but now having second thoughts I’m afraid...
Don’t mean to ignore your posts but there are a lot of them and I’m quite busy. Sorry
Did he achieve anything ?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Your argument is that its Corbyn fault as leader that Boris is now I power
My question was does the same apply to "Red" Ed?
Underlying why I raise this question is that imo any leader of the Labour party who tries to go to the left. However little ( as in Red Ed) will get undermined by establishment
This does not apply to someone like Boris
So its not just about Corbyn personally imo.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Its this for real?
So getting minimum wage is ok if I support a war that was clearly not justified?
I can't believe you mean this
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So what are you saying? That the Labour party needs a new Tony Blair?
blameless77
Well-Known Member
Me too!I'm looking forward to this muchley.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I see you point.
Not sure what kind of term to use.
Its like when I was talking to one of my (ex) Labour Cllrs recently ( he stopped being a Cllr voluntarily ) there is a difference between the New Labour lot and the Corbynites.
He was on the New Labour wing of the party.
New Labour have held power in Lambeth for years now so its all I know.
The rough difference between the two wings is that New Labour support what they would see as socially responsible capitalism. Capitalism that "gives back". Pop is example here.
Another example is from years back I the early days of New Labour in Lambeth. I remember a senior Labour Cllr telling me about his idea of a PFI scheme to run street lighting in Lambeth. He was very enthusiastic about this. Using the "market" to run services more efficiently and cost effectively than the state/ local state.
The Corbynites see capitalism a problem. Capitalism is not going to do away quickly so it should be reined in. Major socially necessary commodities and service should be brought under state/ local democratic control. Class is back. New Labour never like refering to class its "social exclusion " instead.
In Lambeth I see that as the difference between the how I see Lambeth operate and a possible different opposition.
When I say Socialist Cllrs I mean by this Cllrs who will involve themselves in community groups opposing the creeping loss of services. Rather than the hands off approach they take now. I often think my New Labour Cllrs see the point one is making but are terrified of anything that might involve them working with the community to vocally and actively campaign on issues.
The recent bad loss of the election by Labour has seen calls in Labour party to listen more to communities. I don't see that in Lambeth and its been run by the Blairite wing of the party. Community consultation in , for example, imo heavily managed by the Council
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It would be good to aspire to have a leader who can wins elections.
your point that labour leaders who aren’t on the left of the party are tories is patently rubbish.
Alex
editor
hiraethified
You think any Labour leader following any vaguely socialist agenda would stand much of a chance in the face of the billionaire-funded slur campaigns run by the Tories? Unless you're after a Blairite leader of course.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
That's not very welcoming
Stick it out BB you'll get used to it
Been here long enough to be circumspect.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I don't think I was saying they were Tories.
I heard Tony Blair on radio this morning.
He said New Labour was overcoming the historic split between Liberals and Labour that occured at beginning of twentieth century.
So Blair is not a Tory he is in his words a Liberal. Definitely not a socialist.
He prefers the word "progressive".
Patriotic on defence, tough on crime and immigration. Believing in public services but also "reforming" them. . That's what he said this morning
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I’d take a blairite leader who did stuff like
333k extra teachers and teaching assistants
Introduced Sure start
Introduced Minimum wage
Smoking ban - protecting the health of bar/pub workers exposed to second hand smoke
Independent Bank of England
Gift aid
Benefits increases
Over a socialist who gives the tories an 80 majority.
editor
hiraethified
So you're pro-Blair? Pro Iraq war? And, presumably, against Corbyn's policies of increasing the health budget, raising the minimum wage, stopping pension age rises, introducing community care, nationalising key industries, building 100k council homes a year and scrapping universal credit?
Did you even know what his policies were? The 12 key policies in the Labour manifesto?
So you are pro Johnson ?
editor
hiraethified
Where the fuckity flipjacking fuck are you getting that from?
I'm pro-socialism. I want an actual Labour government not a fucking Tony Blair Tory-lite version that you seem to think was so wonderful.
All I’m saying is that Blair improved millions of people’s in the uk’s lives, Corbyn has only improved life for the resident of 10 Downing Street
editor
hiraethified
He also made millions of peoples live significantly worse all across the globe.
Quite why you're comparing him to Corbyn - who never had a chance to implement his policies - is quite beyond me.
aka
Brixton Hill
we got both.
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