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Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn 2019

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That isn't true though. Their policy is a referendum - as it has been for several years - but to revoke if they get an absolute majority of seats. Which wasn't likely when they made the policy and isn't likely now. I've had about a million Lib Dem brexit leaflets through my door this last month but I guess you don't get them in Dulwich & West Norwood.

Jo’s Plan for the Future - this is what it says

The election of a Liberal Democrat majority government on a clear stop Brexit platform will provide a democratic mandate to stop this mess, revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU. In other circumstances, we will continue to fight for a people’s vote with the option to stay in the EU, and in that vote we would passionately campaign to keep the UK in the EU.
My reading is that they want to revoke article 50 if they get a majority. They have now realised :)facepalm:) that that isn't going to happen, so they are up for another collaboration with the tories IF it leads to another referendum.

They really don't want anyone who doesn't like tories to vote for them, do they?
 
The Greens election literature says the following:

"The Green party is the only Remain party standing in Dulwich and West Norwood, the Lib Dems have stood aside for Jonathan Bartley so a Remain MP can be elected here "

This is total bollox.
The Greens election literature says the following:

"The Green party is the only Remain party standing in Dulwich and West Norwood, the Lib Dems have stood aside for Jonathan Bartley so a Remain MP can be elected here "

This is total bollox.

Why? I mean I wouldn't be happy if I was a Lib Dem voter because they are the ones losing out, but why is it bollox?

Is it just the idea of parties making deals, or those parties making deals? End of the day people in Dulwich usually vote for Hayes and they will likely continue to do so. It is a harmless deal that doesn't really help either party.
 
My reading is that they want to revoke article 50 if they get a majority. They have now realised :)facepalm:) that that isn't going to happen, so they are up for another collaboration with the tories IF it leads to another referendum.

They really don't want anyone who doesn't like tories to vote for them, do they?

They have been clear they wouldn't go into any deal with Johnson?

What I heard their deputy, Davey, say was words to the effect of they would support a revival of the Kyle - Wilson Amendment (both Labour MPs). How likely that is though is anyone's guess.

The Kyle-Wilson compromise solution will solve the Brexit crisis
 
Why? I mean I wouldn't be happy if I was a Lib Dem voter because they are the ones losing out, but why is it bollox?

Is it just the idea of parties making deals, or those parties making deals? End of the day people in Dulwich usually vote for Hayes and they will likely continue to do so. It is a harmless deal that doesn't really help either party.

FFS Helen Hayes is a centrist Remain MP.

Its nauseating to see her targeted by unholy alliance of Green / LD parties.
 
FFS Helen Hayes is a centrist Remain MP.

Its nauseating to see her targeted by unholy alliance of Green / LD parties.

Helen Hayes will win your seat no matter who stands there. Everyone knows this, but especially Hayes. I think it is reasonable to assume that the Greens know that as well, as do the Lib Dems. I think it's pretty obvious that Dulwich is just there to make up numbers - the real deal will be elsewhere, like in Brighton where Caroline has a seat and in Wales where the Lib Dems won a seat off the Tories recently.

If Hayes was remotely at risk of losing to anyone except old age maybe I'd be annoyed. But she's safe as houses. Hell, she could have not campaigned at all if she wanted and still romped home.
 
If the Greens and LDs really wanted a Remain vote they would support Helen Hayes.

Why would the Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru endorse a MP from a party that refuses to do any sort of deal back? My friend I mentioned above is likely to lose his pro Remain MP, who is a Lib Dem because Labour is running a candidate there and the seat is so marginal that this may let the Tories back in.

If Labour wanted to do deals with either Greens or Lib Dems, Labour could. Labour doesn't want to do it. So why are the Greens/LDs the bad guys now?
 
Helen Hayes will win your seat no matter who stands there. Everyone knows this, but especially Hayes. I think it is reasonable to assume that the Greens know that as well, as do the Lib Dems. I think it's pretty obvious that Dulwich is just there to make up numbers - the real deal will be elsewhere, like in Brighton where Caroline has a seat and in Wales where the Lib Dems won a seat off the Tories recently.

If Hayes was remotely at risk of losing to anyone except old age maybe I'd be annoyed. But she's safe as houses. Hell, she could have not campaigned at all if she wanted and still romped home.

Your really not getting the point.

I find the LD / Green party alliance offensive.

It purports to be about getting Remain MPs.

Its in reality nothing of the sort.
 
Why would the Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru endorse a MP from a party that refuses to do any sort of deal back? My friend I mentioned above is likely to lose his pro Remain MP, who is a Lib Dem because Labour is running a candidate there and the seat is so marginal that this may let the Tories back in.

If Labour wanted to do deals with either Greens or Lib Dems, Labour could. Labour doesn't want to do it. So why are the Greens/LDs the bad guys now?

This is rubbish.
 
Your really not getting the point.

I find the LD / Green party alliance offensive.

It purports to be about getting Remain MPs.

Its in reality nothing of the sort.

In reality it's a long list of seats where either party isn't likely to win and there are only a couple of seats that it will maybe make a different. Dulwich isn't one of them, but both parties negotiated the list and that is what they came up with. I'm sure neither object to Hayes too much, but they were making a national deal and this is what they came up with.
 
Why would the Greens, Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru endorse a MP from a party that refuses to do any sort of deal back? My friend I mentioned above is likely to lose his pro Remain MP, who is a Lib Dem because Labour is running a candidate there and the seat is so marginal that this may let the Tories back in.

If Labour wanted to do deals with either Greens or Lib Dems, Labour could. Labour doesn't want to do it. So why are the Greens/LDs the bad guys now?

Swinson has refused to do any deals with Corbyn. As in her words "he isn't fit to run this country".

Swinson was quite happy working with Tories.
 
Ok I'm done for the night. I usually enjoy chatting with you but you seem determined to be pissed off here and I have better things to do (those dinner dishes won't scrub themselves).

I always enjoy chatting to you.

Here is morning reading for you

Unite to Remain could hurt the anti-Brexit cause. That’s why I’m no longer a Green candidate | Tom Meadowcroft


The decision to contest Labour seats echoes the Liberal Democrat playbook, which is to insist that Labour’s policy – to negotiate a Brexit deal that protects jobs, workers’ rights and the environment, and then put it back to the public – is somehow pro-Brexit or too complicated. In fact it is closest to the Greens’ policy but adds the step of renegotiating Johnson’s deal instead of pitting what he has already negotiated against remain in a referendum.

Across the country Greens like me now face the prospect of throwing our lot in with Jo Swinson, a leader whose green credentials include voting to sell off England’s forests, taking a donation from an energy company that owns fracking licences, and voting against slowing the rise of rail fares. The alternative is throwing our weight behind Labour’s green new deal, which in many ways is the culmination of decades of Green party policy, and putting pressure on them to keep up their environmental commitments.

In the days before I made my decision to stand down, I thought of the lines of police I faced down with my fellow students in the wake of the Liberal Democrats’ capitulation on tuition fees in 2010. Had it been nine years? I thought about the palpable sense of desolation in Stoke-on-Trent, my student home, brought about by austerity enabled by the Lib Dems in coalition with the Tories.
 
The Greens election literature says the following:
The Green party is the only Remain party standing in Dulwich and West Norwood, the Lib Dems have stood aside for Jonathan Bartley so a Remain MP can be elected here "
The LDs have endorsed the Green candidate.
This is total bollox.
Helen Hayes is Remain.
Its understandable to target Leave MPs. But Helen Hayes isn't.
They are talking about the party, not Helen Hayes personally, who we all know and love.
I can't understand the implication in your post - and from others on Lambeth for Europe Facebook group - that it is somehow a great betrayal if Jonathan Bartley stands as a Green candidate in Dulwich and West Norwood.

Clearly if we had a sensible voting system like Ireland do - STV - anyone could stand anywhere without being accused of treachery.
The current British voting system, like the American one, specialises in narrowing down electoral choice.

I think Jonathan Bartley and the Greens have every right to stand, and I wish them well. I am also realistic enough to say I will eat my hat if Helen Hayes percentage of the DAWN vote dips below 50 percent. The argument that standing against Helen Hayes will lead to Brexit, or somehow stop Helen Hayes preventing a Labour Brexit - should this be desired by a party conference on the matter, is in my view spurious.

Regarding the FT saying John McDonnell is a Trot - I have checked this. I was delighted to find young McDonnelk was brought up in Great Yarmouth and Ipswich, which is my old East Anglian stomping ground. Maybe accounts for his tennacious attitudes.

The article does quote Dame Margaret Hodge thus: He's a Jekyll and Hyde character.You never know if you're seeing a sensible bank manager or a revolutionary Trot.

The FT itself characterises John Mc Donnell like this: An avid reader, he is inspired by Gramsci, the Italian Marxist who believed socialism would triumph by infiltrating “schools, universities, churches and the media”

Long FT profile is at ft.com/mcdonnell
 
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They are talking about the party, not Helen Hayes personally, who we all know and love.
I can't understand the implication in your post - and from others on Lambeth for Europe Facebook group - that it is somehow a great betrayal if Jonathan Bartley stands as a Green candidate in Dulwich and West Norwood.

Clearly if we had a sensible voting system like Ireland do - STV - anyone could stand anywhere without being accused of treachery.
The current British voting system, like the American one, specialises in narrowing down electoral choice.

I think Jonathan Bartley and the Greens have every right to stand, and I wish them well. I am also realistic enough to say I will eat my hat if Helen Hayes percentage of the DAWN vote dips below 50 percent. The argument that standing against Helen Hayes will lead to Brexit, or somehow stop Helen Hayes preventing a Labour Brexit - should this be desired by a party conference on the matter, is in my view spurious.

Regarding the FT saying John McDonnell is a Trot - I have checked this. I was delighted to find young McDonnelk was brought up in Great Yarmouth and Ipswich, which is my old East Anglian stomping ground. Maybe accounts for his tennacious attitudes.

The article does quote Dame Margaret Hodge thus: He's a Jekyll and Hyde character.You never know if you're seeing a sensible bank manager or a revolutionary Trot.

The FT itself characterises John Mc Donnell like this: An avid reader, he is inspired by Gramsci, the Italian Marxist who believed socialism would triumph by infiltrating “schools, universities, churches and the media”

Long FT profile is at ft.com/mcdonnell

Helen. Hayes has promised::
Campaign group Remain Labour has drawn up a pledge, which states: “Labour is committed to a confirmatory referendum, to give you the final say on Brexit. If elected as your Labour MP, I pledge to campaign to Remain in the EU.”

The list of Labour candidates signed up to the Remain pledge -LLabourList

She is 76 on list.

Yet Bartley election literature is saying he is the Remain candidate.

I'm not talking about betrayal. I'm talking the facts.

Hayes is Remain. Labour party support a second referendum.

I object to my Labour party MP being targeted in this manner.

Its just not factually correct for Bartley to say he is the "Remain candidate".
 
They are talking about the party, not Helen Hayes personally, who we all know and love.
I can't understand the implication in your post - and from others on Lambeth for Europe Facebook group - that it is somehow a great betrayal if Jonathan Bartley stands as a Green candidate in Dulwich and West Norwood.

Clearly if we had a sensible voting system like Ireland do - STV - anyone could stand anywhere without being accused of treachery.
The current British voting system, like the American one, specialises in narrowing down electoral choice.

I think Jonathan Bartley and the Greens have every right to stand, and I wish them well. I am also realistic enough to say I will eat my hat if Helen Hayes percentage of the DAWN vote dips below 50 percent. The argument that standing against Helen Hayes will lead to Brexit, or somehow stop Helen Hayes preventing a Labour Brexit - should this be desired by a party conference on the matter, is in my view spurious.

Regarding the FT saying John McDonnell is a Trot - I have checked this. I was delighted to find young McDonnelk was brought up in Great Yarmouth and Ipswich, which is my old East Anglian stomping ground. Maybe accounts for his tennacious attitudes.

The article does quote Dame Margaret Hodge thus: He's a Jekyll and Hyde character.You never know if you're seeing a sensible bank manager or a revolutionary Trot.

The FT itself characterises John Mc Donnell like this: An avid reader, he is inspired by Gramsci, the Italian Marxist who believed socialism would triumph by infiltrating “schools, universities, churches and the media”

Long FT profile is at ft.com/mcdonnell

Yes voting system here is antiquated.

I actually would like to have Bartley as MP. The other two issues after Brexit are Green New Deal and opposing this New Council estate demolition in his election literature. Which I agree with.

Hayes personally I like. She has shown herself to be good constituency MP. She is however on the right of the party. She is hardworking. She has supported the adventure playground in Loughborough Junction.

The reason I definitely will vote Labour not Green is that today the Chief Rabbi has told us that:

He adds that it was "not my place to tell any person how they should vote" but he urged the public to "vote with their conscience".

Chief rabbi in election attack on Labour

After this from Chief Rabbi my vote is 100% for Corbyn led Labour party.

Voting Labour party is immoral. Fuck off . For the first time in decades might have a Labour party that at least starts to repair the damage done by Tories and the Chief Rabbi is telling me a Labour voter Im voting for a racist party. I'm livid with anger this evening.
 
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Like that was ever in doubt. Was it 99.99% before the rabbi's comments?

A Corbyn led government would be disastrous for business, the economy and jobs.
If Corbyn got in it would be with a coalition so I doubt much of the manifesto would be enacted. They'd be consumed by Brexit!
What's weird though is that with the fixed term parliament thing you do wonder when he would be kicked out if things turned sour ?
 
IMG_20191128_221809.jpg

I got this yesterday.

Shows Hayes the Labour candidate is the Remain candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood

I think its unfortunate that the local Green party has joined up with Swinson LDs in trying to undermine the Labour party.

The so called pact between Greens and LDs is all about Swinson trying to undermine the Labour party. Which is her primary objective.

Labour party official policy is for a second referendum.

LDs policy is to revoke article 50. Thus ignore those that voted leave.

Also Swinson has refused to work with Labour party as in her view Corbyn is unfit to be a leader of this country.

So remain by any way possible never was true for Swinson.
 
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