Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Brian Taylor]

There is a crowdfunder running that has received donations from 36 people, half of whom are anonymous.

That doesn't mean they aren't also receiving support elsewhere - there are lots of rumours that they are receiving other support from certain companies, trade bodies or rich individuals but nothing that confirms it.

And those rumours have been flying around for some time about the groups of individuals arguing against these schemes.
I know one of the groups well, and they have had those rumours thrown at them. I don't know any of the other groups well enough to speak about, but as far as the group i know... the rumours are malicious and baseless, designed to smear people and damage any argument that they make.
It's hardly an original tactic, but it does seem to work.

 

[editor]

Only their words. I assume they're acting in good faith as i assume everyone here is acting in good faith. I have no reason to think otherwise.

Given the suspicions, you'd think it would be a trivial matter for them to provide information about their funding model.

 

[Jesterburger]

And those rumours have been flying around for some time about the groups of individuals arguing against these schemes.
I know one of the groups well, and they have had those rumours thrown at them. I don't know any of the other groups well enough to speak about, but as far as the group i know... the rumours are malicious and baseless, designed to smear people and damage any argument that they make.
It's hardly an original tactic, but it does seem to work.

I think there is suspicion as Canary Wharf group previously funded anti-cycle lane campaigns and the LTDA have previously contributed - both in reference to the Embankment one in particular, so you can see why people might think that.

 

[teuchter]

Here's One Lambeth's crodfunding page

OneLambeth

A resident-led campaign shining a light on 'low traffic neighbourhoods' (LTNs) in Lambeth.

www.crowdfunder.co.uk

 

[teuchter]

And here's what they are presenting as their "evidence" to Lambeth

Blocked-off roads – The evidence from Lambeth residents and traders: Incidents involving baseball bats…police having to chase suspects on foot…firms facing closure threatening group action against council…increased cab fares…vigilantes threatening dr

More than eight pages of evidence from residents and businesses about the effects Low Traffic Neighbourhoods have had, and are having, on their lives is documented in a planned emergency motion whi…

newsfromcrystalpalace.wordpress.com

One of the examples on there

The son visiting his severely disabled mother in Camberwell: “It used to take me around five mins to get to her house and now it can take anywhere up to 45 mins.”

Looking at the detail of that - the journey is from somewhere off Effra Road to Flaxman road. Seems plausible that might be 5 mins in a car with no traffic. Right now, with congestion showing on Brixton Hill and CHL, google says 10 or 12 minutes (several route options) by car. They say they don't want to take the bus because they don't feel safe because of Covid. Understandable... but the same's true for anyone who doesn't have a car. Even if everyone did have a car, and there were no LTNs, it just wouldn't work for everyone to do that kind of journey by car. It's a 25 minute walk or 10 minute bike ride.

Is anyone going to sit down and look at all this evidence and check out each claim? Ideally they would of course, and there'd be some which are nonsense and some where there might be a fair point that perhaps could be addressed by adjustments to the scheme. I doubt that'll happen...it's propaganda wars in the end.

 

[editor]

This is the attitude!

stop using the bloody car I bought, paid for, insured, serviced, MOTd actually pay ROAD tax for... yes I will drive my car on the ROAD as I've paid for the privilege thanks.

 

[Rushy]

... there might be a fair point that perhaps could be addressed by adjustments to the scheme. I doubt that'll happen...it's propaganda wars in the end.

This.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Given the suspicions, you'd think it would be a trivial matter for them to provide information about their funding model.

They have said that up till now they have funded it out of their own pockets and now are trying to raise funds through crowd funding. Sounds about right to me based on the sums involved in setting up a web site and printing a few flyers. I assume the Judicial Review is being funded by the crowd funding.

 

[editor]

They have said that up till now they have funded it out of their own pockets and now are trying to raise funds through crowd funding. Sounds about right to me based on the sums involved in setting up a web site and printing a few flyers. I assume the Judicial Review is being funded by the crowd funding.

But what better way to silence their critics than by being transparent about their finances?

 

[Jesterburger]

They are also running Facebook advertising for OneLambeth but because it's not registered as a political or social cause there is no transparency around that either - how much they are paying, who are they targeting (even people outside the borough?)

 

[editor]

They are also running Facebook advertising for OneLambeth but because it's not registered as a political or social cause there is no transparency around that either - how much they are paying, who are they targeting (even people outside the borough?)

Facebook advertising can be pretty pricey too.

 

[teuchter]

This.

But the first bit of my paragraph too.

 

[Brian Taylor]

But what better way to silence their critics than by being transparent about their finances?

They probably assume they have been by what they've already said. If people don't want to believe it then they won't believe anything more they say anyways.

 

[Rushy]

But the first bit of my paragraph too.

I'm just agreeing with the part I quoted.

 

[thebackrow]

And here's what they are presenting as their "evidence" to Lambeth

Blocked-off roads – The evidence from Lambeth residents and traders: Incidents involving baseball bats…police having to chase suspects on foot…firms facing closure threatening group action against council…increased cab fares…vigilantes threatening dr

More than eight pages of evidence from residents and businesses about the effects Low Traffic Neighbourhoods have had, and are having, on their lives is documented in a planned emergency motion whi…

newsfromcrystalpalace.wordpress.com

I know it's easy to mock some of this stuff but there is some really wonderful anecdote in there. When did KFC clones, hairdressers and waxing salons depend on customers arriving by car and why? Surely their customer bases are hyper-local?
the following businesses in the Ferndale ward are at danger of closing, partly or directly as a result of the LTN, ....Chicken World on Acre Lane, Love Hair Brixton, Naked Hare

If I want to do my bi-monthly family shop at Sainsbury’s in Vauxhall I now face an extra 20 min journey.
‘I have also seen my neighbour being chased by an angry driver who covered up his number plates after attempting to drive through the restrictions on Elm Park

On 8th October, as a result of the lack of cars and pedestrians, the daughter of one resident was walking home from Arodene Road into Helix Road, where she was approached aggressively and asked for her number, as there was no-one else on the streets. [Arodene and Helix Roads haven't been closed yet as far as I can see]

This one sums it up really.
‘… these streets were not intended as gardens or pleasure domes, and the age in which children played unsupervised in the street is long past;

 

[editor]

They probably assume they have been by what they've already said. If people don't want to believe it then they won't believe anything more they say anyways.

No, that doesn't make sense. All they've got to do is say: "here's how we're funded." They don't have to list every name. Why are you against such transparency?

 

[Jesterburger]

Several of the comments refer to angry drivers behaving badly because of the LTNs. That's not a reason to get rid of LTNs. It's a call for drivers to stop being dicks.

Other comments just aren't true 'Cars and vans are having a hard time turning around or reversing at Elm Park' - any car approaching the Elm Park filter from the South can turn right onto Craignair Rd; from the North they can turn right or left onto Craster. No need to reverse or to turn round unless they've ignored road signs.

and don't get me started on the 'intimidating vigilante groups'

 

[editor]

This will spice things up! As the debate over LTNs continue, one group of residents tellS Lambeth council: ‘Create lots more Low Traffic Neighbourhoods’

 

[Not a Vet]

The dates on that document are all off, they refer to incidents from September and before whereas the article claims they are all from the last week

 

[teuchter]

I'm not quite clear what this means procedurally but Lambeth seem to be rejecting the "emergency motion" this evening.

 

[Brassed off]

And here's what they are presenting as their "evidence" to Lambeth

Blocked-off roads – The evidence from Lambeth residents and traders: Incidents involving baseball bats…police having to chase suspects on foot…firms facing closure threatening group action against council…increased cab fares…vigilantes threatening dr

More than eight pages of evidence from residents and businesses about the effects Low Traffic Neighbourhoods have had, and are having, on their lives is documented in a planned emergency motion whi…

newsfromcrystalpalace.wordpress.com

One of the examples on there



Looking at the detail of that - the journey is from somewhere off Effra Road to Flaxman road. Seems plausible that might be 5 mins in a car with no traffic. Right now, with congestion showing on Brixton Hill and CHL, google says 10 or 12 minutes (several route options) by car. They say they don't want to take the bus because they don't feel safe because of Covid. Understandable... but the same's true for anyone who doesn't have a car. Even if everyone did have a car, and there were no LTNs, it just wouldn't work for everyone to do that kind of journey by car. It's a 25 minute walk or 10 minute bike ride.

Is anyone going to sit down and look at all this evidence and check out each claim? Ideally they would of course, and there'd be some which are nonsense and some where there might be a fair point that perhaps could be addressed by adjustments to the scheme. I doubt that'll happen...it's propaganda wars in the end.

None of them are nonsense! Why do you need to rubbish them? The experiences have been verified with the councillor who has had names and numbers these residents are also speaking with their MP and ward councillors, locals who might travel by car to support members of the community have been forgotten in this debate, how they travel after long shifts at work or juggling child care and how they support small local businesses shopping in small local stores. We all know the consultation didn’t take place, it’s understood why, but these voices speaking out tonight are exactly who didn’t get to have their voice heard. Why is it so objectionable to locals who want to promote the scheme that these residents should spk? They can’t be there in person tonight because of Covid 19 but those galleries would have been full otherwise. The pro argument has Brixton Buzz on side, Herne Hill forum, Ms Berry who works for living Streets has secured really grt media PR she’s very good at it.
But locals like the man you quote haven’t had a chance. Let them spk! Let ppl be heard! Why is everyone a liar?

 

[editor]

The pro argument has Brixton Buzz on side,

Eh? The site has covered both sides to the extent that both sides are pissed off with it.

 

[Brian Taylor]

No, that doesn't make sense. All they've got to do is say: "here's how we're funded." They don't have to list every name. Why are you against such transparency?

This is just going round in circles and now it's getting personal. This is what their site says, if it's not enough then so be it.

https://onelambeth.co.uk/donations

"We're setting up this funding page to cover the essentials of running the OneLambeth campaign, and to allow us to reach even more people with our messages. We are entirely volunteer-powered, and don't benefit from any financial support from external bodies. Setting up a Crowdfunder page is the most direct way to raising the modest funds needed to facilitate our work. We've seen steep growth in interest in our campaign as awareness of LTNs has grown since their roll-out in May, and we need to consolidate this growth by bolstering our operations and infrastructure.

All donations will go directly to frontline costs of the campaign - printing and reprographics, project management, web hosting fees and licenses, design and brand, and communications costs. Our campaign is entirely run by volunteers, none of whom receive compensation of any kind. To date, we have covered all core costs from our own pockets. But, as the campaign grows, we need to secure additional funding to make sure we can grow sustainably."

 

[editor]

This is just going round in circles and now it's getting personal.

It's not getting personal at all. I just would have thought that if your opponents were unfairly accusing a campaign of being nefariously funded, then why not just make those finances transparent?

Your quotes above do nothing to address that issue.

 

[teuchter]

The experiences have been verified with the councillor

Has each and every claim of an emergency vehicle being stuck been verified with the emergency services themselves?

 

[Brian Taylor]

It's not getting personal at all. I just would have thought that if your opponents were unfairly accusing a campaign of being nefariously funded, then why not just make those finances transparent?

Your quotes above do nothing to address that issue.

You said All they've got to do is say: "here's how we're funded." . They have.
Not a lot else i can add to this really. Maybe they could crowd fund a full and detailed audit of a FB group, you could chip in if you like.

Anyways, we disagree.

 

[Brassed off]

You said All they've got to do is say: "here's how we're funded." . They have.
Not a lot else i can add to this really. Maybe they could crowd fund a full and detailed audit of a FB group, you could chip in if you like.

Anyways, we disagree.

Has each and every claim of an emergency vehicle being stuck been verified with the emergency services themselves?

Many of the claims have been backed up with footage of the events themselves and set directly to Ms Holland. Including police abandoning their car to run toward a suspected stabbing incident on foot! ( Ferndale last weekend) why don’t you FOI the rest as you are so determined to rubbish everything. Hurry up.

 

[teuchter]

Many of the claims have been backed up with footage of the events themselves and set directly to Ms Holland. Including police abandoning their car to run toward a suspected stabbing incident on foot! ( Ferndale last weekend) why don’t you FOI the rest as you are so determined to rubbish everything. Hurry up.

Ok. So none of the claims about emergency vehicles being stuck due to LTNs have been verified with the emergency services themselves.

 

[thebackrow]

None of them are nonsense! Why do you need to rubbish them?

Because some of them are clearly nonsense and the most anyone can say accurately is that "person X has CLAIMED that...."

 

[Not a Vet]

Personally I’m upset that chicken world might be forced to close. Where will I get fried chicken from now? Literally every other takeaway