Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[thebackrow]

Yes Ive seen this.
The actual Traffic orders I havent found there.
When I found the Oval LTN ETO it had no mention of the pandemic as reason.
There are also separate traffic orders which are temporary for the pandemic.

FFS - really none so blind as those that won't see. You're probably going to accuse me of being a 'really nasty poster' again or something now.

from the Oval website I posted above -
"This is a project that the council had been considering before the pandemic but we have had to adapt to the changing circumstances. The low traffic neighbourhood will now be delivered in two stages:

• Immediately creating a low traffic neighbourhood with a temporary scheme
• Developing a permanent scheme, which will be informed by engaging with stakeholders and learning lessons from the temporary scheme"

and from the traffic order - (which I've now Googled)
The Orders are being (1) introduced in accordance with the Council’s Transport Strategy Plan and the (2) Mayor of London’s Street Space Plan, across the borough to create low traffic neighbourhoods so as to reduce road danger and encourage active travel. The Order is being introduced as an experiment in the first instance so the effect can be assessed before a decision is made about whether to continue the scheme permanently.

So:
(1) matches to "it being a project that the council had been considering before the pandemic"
(2) Mayor of London’s Street Space Plan, is your link to Covid (from lambeth plan "Transport in a time of COVID.... The Mayor of London has produced a plan called Streetspace for London"

You also asked about Wandsworth - well, in my opinion what has happened is that Wandsworth has now caved in completely to the motorist. My opinion is that its a farce. All suggestions to reduce road traffic have been ruled out of the discussion. So its now motorist first, pedestrians and cyclists second.

 

[sleaterkinney]

From the times:



3 minutes.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

From the times:

View attachment 233791

3 minutes.

Perhaps they are going onwards? When I visit my mum I take her out places.

People need to look beyong minutes and distance and look at needs.

 

[co-op]

From the times:

View attachment 233791

3 minutes.

Bingo. It's amazing what car heads can't see, we keep getting these contrived sob stories about "poor people" and people on main roads, the disabled, van drivers etc etc but when it comes to the actual people who are actually gunning for a JR on LTNs, it's someone who's upset because she can't make a 3-minute car trip. Just about the only answer to that is "good".

 

[Gramsci]

FFS - really none so blind as those that won't see. You're probably going to accuse me of being a 'really nasty poster' again or something now.

from the Oval website I posted above -
"This is a project that the council had been considering before the pandemic but we have had to adapt to the changing circumstances. The low traffic neighbourhood will now be delivered in two stages:

• Immediately creating a low traffic neighbourhood with a temporary scheme
• Developing a permanent scheme, which will be informed by engaging with stakeholders and learning lessons from the temporary scheme"

and from the traffic order - (which I've now Googled)
The Orders are being (1) introduced in accordance with the Council’s Transport Strategy Plan and the (2) Mayor of London’s Street Space Plan, across the borough to create low traffic neighbourhoods so as to reduce road danger and encourage active travel. The Order is being introduced as an experiment in the first instance so the effect can be assessed before a decision is made about whether to continue the scheme permanently.

So:
(1) matches to "it being a project that the council had been considering before the pandemic"
(2) Mayor of London’s Street Space Plan, is your link to Covid (from lambeth plan "Transport in a time of COVID.... The Mayor of London has produced a plan called Streetspace for London"

You also asked about Wandsworth - well, in my opinion what has happened is that Wandsworth has now caved in completely to the motorist. My opinion is that its a farce. All suggestions to reduce road traffic have been ruled out of the discussion. So its now motorist first, pedestrians and cyclists second.

There is being blind.

There is also Council not informing residents fully of how it is going about this.

There are various traffic orders. So not sure which one you are quoting.

There is an ETO for Oval LTN on top of the other two.

The ETO does not mention the pandemic as reason to implement this scheme.

If one reads it it is specific on how to object, who to and the time limits on objections.

I cannot see any of this on the Council Oval website. So residents are not getting the full information they need to put in objections in the time limited period.

 

[Gramsci]

Residents in Ealing and Islington are starting process of asking for judicial review.

Ealing's Local Web site

Online resource for Ealing, the site for property , restaurants , shops and information on the Ealing Community

www.ealingtoday.co.uk

New Islington cycleway faces threat of legal action

Solicitors are threatening Islington Council with court action over a new cycleway brought in as part of a package of traffic measures...

www.islingtongazette.co.uk

Both say use of ETO is undemocratic.

Erik said: “[ETROs] should only be used when the works are genuinely experimental and not just novel and certainly should not be used as a convenient mechanism to circumvent the normal consultation process.

Ealing:

The application claims that Ealing Council has failed to meet its obligations under Section 122 of the Road Traffic Act 1984 and its public sector Equality Duty under the Equality Act 2010.

As local government has decided to use pandemic to push through what it wants I think judicial review is understandable.

Whether this happens in Lambeth remains to be seen. Given way Lambeth has acted I think judicial review of its decision making process over the LTNs is legitimate.

 

[teuchter]

The government guidelines specifically say councils can use experimental traffic orders to do the covid stuff.

[Withdrawn] Traffic regulation orders: guidance on the traffic orders procedure (Coronavirus)

www.gov.uk

 

[teuchter]

Anyway - do these people launching JRs really care about consultation? I don't think so - they just want the schemes ended.

I've spent 2 or 3 weeks watching the One Lambeth facebook page now, and haven't seen any discussion at all, along the lines of how things could be adjusted, or how to do better consultation. None. It's all people who want the the LTNs just to go away.

 

[thebackrow]

f

There are various traffic orders. So not sure which one you are quoting.

Obviously I’m quoting from the Eto because that’s the one you were saying didn’t make reference to COVId and I’ve explained how it does.

do you actually bother reading any of this stuff or do you just have an opinion about it?

 

[TopCat]

An interesting article from The Guardian earlier this year How London got rid of private cars – and grew more congested than ever
The title is self explanatory, may be food for thought for the "Traffic Evaporation" theorists.

Its utter shite. The delivery van that came to me yesterday (saving me a trip to the shops) did 145 local stops. This one vehicle on the road saved countless car journeys.
Uber only works because the cars and drivers are constantly busy in a way private owned cars never are.

 

[Gramsci]

f

Obviously I’m quoting from the Eto because that’s the one you were saying didn’t make reference to COVId and I’ve explained how it does.

do you actually bother reading any of this stuff or do you just have an opinion about it?

I put the ETO up on previous post and it does not mention Covid.

 

[alex_]

Its utter shite. The delivery van that came to me yesterday (saving me a trip to the shops) did 145 local stops. This one vehicle on the road saved countless car journeys.
Uber only works because the cars and drivers are constantly busy in a way private owned cars never are.

plus cos it does high mileage it won’t be that old, so it will be euro6 and therefore less worse for particulates etc

 

[thebackrow]

I put the ETO up on previous post and it does not mention Covid.

By golly, I think you've got them here Gramsci. Simply referring to the Mayor of London’s COVID Street Space Plan, streetspace-for-london rather than putting COVID-19 in big flashing multicoloured text means the whole thing must be invalid. As someone who's critically supportive you probably want to keep quiet about that as you wouldn't want to see something you support fail on a technicality would you?

 

[Gramsci]

By golly, I think you've got them here Gramsci. Simply referring to the Mayor of London’s COVID Street Space Plan, streetspace-for-london rather than putting COVID-19 in big flashing multicoloured text means the whole thing must be invalid. As someone who's critically supportive you probably want to keep quiet about that as you wouldn't want to see something you support fail on a technicality would you?

Can't see reference to Khans street space for London on the ETO for Oval Ive posted up.

 

[Gramsci]

By golly, I think you've got them here Gramsci. Simply referring to the Mayor of London’s COVID Street Space Plan, streetspace-for-london rather than putting COVID-19 in big flashing multicoloured text means the whole thing must be invalid. As someone who's critically supportive you probably want to keep quiet about that as you wouldn't want to see something you support fail on a technicality would you?

As you have brought up Khan's streetspace a few comments.

As we are going through a health emergency I support temporary measures that are implemented in proportionate way to help stop people getting ill.

From what Ive seen of the street space in central London it was initially done quickly with the best intentions but is now no longer needed.

The end of lockdown has not seen people going back to work in large numbers to the City or West End.

An initial surge of shoppers to West End has reduced to much less people in West End.

My Black Cab/ Van driver friends see streetspace as using Pandemic to push through what he wants without the usual consultation. Some of this is directly down to Khan and some to local inner London Councils.

Regent Street / Piccadilly , for example, are narrowed due to temporary pavement widening that is not needed.

As a cyclist Im finding it difficult to get around Regent street and Piccadilly due to this. For no reason that I can see. Same with Oxford Street.

Only place on Regent street pavement widening is needed is outside the Apple store. For whatever reason this is one shop that people flock to.

There is not the volume of people around West End now to justify sticking "temporary" barriers in the road.

Park Lane- I can use Hyde Park as a cyclist. No need for road narrowing on Park Lane to make a cycle lane. Most people still use Hyde Park.

Bishopgate I don't understand. City is empty of people yet pavements have been widened and through traffic stopped near Liverpool street station. Even though the amount of people using it has reduced dramatically.

Most large companies in City are keeping working from home. This may possibly be permanent change in some cases.

I could go on.

Don't think referring to Khan's streetspace is great argument.

The one place Ive seen it does work is pavement widening for bus stops on Brixton road.

My issue is what is temporary for Covid and what is doing this to put in place schemes that are permanent using Covid as excuse.Sidestepping full consultation.

Given that Khan and local Councils share control of roads the picture is somewhat confused over who is doing what.

Which does not help.

 

[thebackrow]

Lambeth traffic-management-orders

 

[CH1]

I expect someone posted this before. But it's worth repeating.
How a road safety scheme led my neighbours to mistake me for a Brexiter | Zoe Williams
No doubt if Zoe Williams was posting on here she would get the same sarky narky treatment.

Personally I'm wondering if the blocked off north-bound carriageway of Barrington Road junction with Coldharbour Lane is negligence by those installing fibre optic cable, now long gone. Or is it part of the plot to gas innocent Coldharbour Lane residents with vehicle particulates - preparatory to putting us down when we get Covid?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Here's councillor Timothy Briggs collecting his anecdata:

View attachment 233455

It's now up on the Lambeth website, Motion 3: https://t.co/N2gS8ehREq?amp=1 (pdf)

I love point 2:

For the Council to go back to the drawing board and consult residents in an unbiased way that does not presume an outcome, to see where low-traffic neighbourhoods or restrictions are actually wanted, or required to solve a problem (for example in the streets off Clapham Common Southside in Clapham Common ward SW4 to avoid cut-throughs to the South Circular Road: Lessar Avenue, Lynette Avenue, Cautley Avenue and others);

 

[editor]

The addition of wooden seating onto the Atlantic Road planters by the Dogstar seems to have tipped some people over the edge.

 

[ash]

The addition of wooden seating onto the Atlantic Road planters by the Dogstar seems to have tipped some people over the edge.

it doesn't take much

 

[Jesterburger]

It's now up on the Lambeth website, Motion 3: https://t.co/N2gS8ehREq?amp=1 (pdf)

Has he forgotten the terrible Tory / LibDem coalition running the council? It was only 14 years ago

 

[editor]

Buzzed: Lambeth Tory councillor proposes motion to reverse the ‘failed Low Traffic Neighbourhoods scheme’

 

[thebackrow]

 

[Jesterburger]

View attachment 234037

...plus as well as that red bit, much of the rest of his ward already benefits from the Crescent Lane & Park Hill filters that stops the area being used as a rat run between Clapham Common South Side & Kings Ave, and I don't hear him calling for that to be taken out

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wasnt saying that only the rich drive. Of course thats nonsense. I was saying that rich drivers are who is retaining solicitors to try for a judicial review.

100% we should as a nation move to subsidise transport more. Its absurd how much a commuter ticket costs in London. Making ticket payers bear the cost of the system, as opposed to the companies that benefit from the labour of the commuters, and doing it in a deceitful way to make it look like its TFLs fault is typical of the current government and their ideological predecessors.

Fewer cars. More and cheaper public transport. Quieter and Safer roads. Simple technical solutions to give those with a legitimate need to drive that right. thats the way forward.

The ANTI groups have no way forward, and from what I have read on this very thread seem to spend their time saying unkind things about children on closed facebook groups that have tory councillors on them.

Shame.

TBF, you don't need to be rich to take something to JR. I did so, even though I'm potless. If Legal Aid believe you have a case, you got funded.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Has he forgotten the terrible Tory / LibDem coalition running the council? It was only 14 years ago

View attachment 234032

That IS 2 decades, so technically, he's right.

 

[Brian Taylor]

TBF, you don't need to be rich to take something to JR. I did so, even though I'm potless. If Legal Aid believe you have a case, you got funded.

I understand that OneLambeth is being backed by crowd funding from small donations from individual members, not some shadowy cabal of rich people in the background.

 

[editor]

I understand that OneLambeth is being backed by crowd funding from small donations from individual members, not some shadowy cabal of rich people in the background.

Is there any transparency regarding their funding?

 

[Brian Taylor]

Is there any transparency regarding their funding?

Only their words. I assume they're acting in good faith as i assume everyone here is acting in good faith. I have no reason to think otherwise.

 

[Jesterburger]

There is a crowdfunder running that has received donations from 36 people, half of whom are anonymous.

That doesn't mean they aren't also receiving support elsewhere - there are lots of rumours that they are receiving other support from certain companies, trade bodies or rich individuals but nothing that confirms it.