Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Not a Vet]

Someone has invited me to join OneLambeth. This is what you're asked before you can join:

View attachment 232659

It almost feels like on question 2, there should only be one option as it’s such a leading question

 

[co-op]

Someone has invited me to join OneLambeth. This is what you're asked before you can join:

View attachment 232659

So the obvious answer is "Yes" they are wrong (not extensive enough) and Far too much consultation.

And you're in.

 

[snowy_again]

Apparently parents of kids at Holy Trinity in Tulse Hill spent an hour today asking drivers not to drive through the new ‘no cars’ barrier.

According to One Lambeth posters for doing this they’re a ‘bunch of cunts’ and they should be run over.

 

[Manter]

Apparently parents of kids at Holy Trinity in Tulse Hill spent an hour today asking drivers not to drive through the new ‘no cars’ barrier.

According to One Lambeth posters for doing this they’re a ‘bunch of cunts’ and they should be run over.

Well, they sound delightful and not unreasonable at all.

 

[Manter]

There's no way that things that work in Japan could simply be assumed to work here - but a couple of years ago I spent a bit of time in Tokyo and it was very interesting to see how transport stuff is done there.
Outside of the centre, the residential areas consist almost entirely of quite small streets. Cars aren't banned from these, but there is a very small amount of traffic on them, and there's certainly no speeding. In many cases there's no distinction between pavement and street. There's no on-street parking (if you have a car you have to somehow fit it onto the already small plot that your house is on). There are a lot of people walking and cycling and these streets are a wonder of calm with absolutely no feeling of stress from motor vehicles. There are enormous bike parking places at many metro stations (and often supermarkets). There are busy main roads that carry a fair bit of traffic but they are quite clearly defined, and often quite segregated by being on raised expressways and so on.
Anyway, what made me think of this is that as far as I can see virtually no-one drives their kids to school. As anyone who's been to Tokyo will know, it's not unusual to see primary school age kids travelling to school by themselves on the metro at rush hour. Or walking by themselves along the streets. The other thing that was notable was that if you go past a nursery at child collecting time there's no logjam of cars - there's pretty much no cars at all, just a crowd of parents waiting either on foot or with bicycles with child seats.
We could have a long discussion about why they manage all this in Tokyo, and there are obviously lots of cultural reasons and other stuff (which is why other European cities are more useful models for what might be possible in the UK), but it struck me that the way things are done there is to some extent generated by the acute lack of space - there simply isn't enough room for people to pick up kids from nursery by car. There's a capacity restriction forced on the system just by the fact that the streets are very small, and they've developed ways of dealing with this, and the result is a way of living in dense urban areas where motor vehicles don't dominate at all, and it's a million times better than the mess we have here, where we give over far too much space to motor vehicles and have to live with the constant traffic all the time.

What you describe is exactly what I’m seeing in Copenhagen. The streets with no separation between usage are particularly interesting (they do tend to have underground parking garages in contrast to Japan)- the assumption is that all traffic will respect other traffic, cars use those streets mostly to get away to an a road, and school runs, food shops etc etc are all done by bike. And it seems to work. Streets are for people to move around on, not for cars with grudging strips of pavement round the edges.

 

[Crispy]

Apparently parents of kids at Holy Trinity in Tulse Hill spent an hour today asking drivers not to drive through the new ‘no cars’ barrier.

According to One Lambeth posters for doing this they’re a ‘bunch of cunts’ and they should be run over.

Nearly came to blows today, according to local whatsapp

 

[nick]

So anyone know when, or indeed, if the cameras will be installed? (I'm not aware of cameras at any of the barriers yet)
A few fines would focus the mind and the "bunch of cunts" wouldn't need to open themselves up for abuse

 

[technical]

There’s no point without the cameras - everyone just sails through as far as I can see

 

[Not a Vet]

A couple of weeks I think for the cameras

 

[Rushy]

So anyone know when, or indeed, if the cameras will be installed? (I'm not aware of cameras at any of the barriers yet)
A few fines would focus the mind and the "bunch of cunts" wouldn't need to open themselves up for abuse

Someone from the Sustainable Growth and Opportunities Directorate told me this week that it will be "very soon" but that we will get a letter and advance notice. We got a letter and advance notice in June saying it would be fully enforced with APNR cameras issuing warnings from July 11 and fines from July 25. One of my councilors told me that there were issues getting cameras - that was two months ago.

 

[Rushy]

There’s no point without the cameras - everyone just sails through as far as I can see

The gates are pointless without APNR. In fact I find them quite dangerous because people expect cars to stop and then they fly through. It's not like they don't have experience with this. They had no access signs at the end of Lambert Road for years but no one (other than goodie goodie suckers like me) paid them any attention so they eventually physically closed the route to all traffic.

Imagine how much engagement they could have carried out in that three months (and counting).

 

[Not a Vet]

The gates are pointless without APNR. In fact I find them quite dangerous because people expect cars to stop and then they fly through. It's not like they don't have experience with this. They had no access signs at the end of Lambert Road for years but no one (other than goodie goodie suckers like me) paid them any attention so they eventually physically closed the route to all traffic.

Imagine how much engagement they could have carried out in that three months (and counting).

You know what it will be. Use the legislation to make the changes and then someone will have pointed out that the cameras all have a lead time so they’ve gone ahead but are now playing catch up. I think some drivers will get a shock when it’s all up and running

 

[co-op]

Well, they sound delightful and not unreasonable at all.

There's a certain percentage of people who just go completely mental at anything to do with regulations to do with cars. I used to work with a guy who was completely fucking enraged by speed bumps (they were new at the time, this was the 1980s) and who decided that he'd "punish" the residents - who he had decided were the guilty party for this outrage against his rights - by blasting his horn every time he went over one, for the whole period of the time he was driving over it. He did this every single time. For years. God knows what was happening to his blood pressure.

Cars are bad for you basically.

 

[Rushy]

You know what it will be. Use the legislation to make the changes and then someone will have pointed out that the cameras all have a lead time so they’ve gone ahead but are now playing catch up. I think some drivers will get a shock when it’s all up and running

Probably. They are frantically scribbling ideas on the back of a fag packet. That's why engagement would have been a good idea, even if having road controls at the end were a forgone conclusion. As their introduction to cooperative council says : Citizens are valuable sources of insight and expertise, and are often best placed to identify solutions to meet the needs of their local area.

 

[Manter]

There's a certain percentage of people who just go completely mental at anything to do with regulations to do with cars. I used to work with a guy who was completely fucking enraged by speed bumps (they were new at the time, this was the 1980s) and who decided that he'd "punish" the residents - who he had decided were the guilty party for this outrage against his rights - by blasting his horn every time he went over one, for the whole period of the time he was driving over it. He did this every single time. For years. God knows what was happening to his blood pressure.

Cars are bad for you basically.

Our local WhatsApp reckons speed bumps are the solution- to pretty much any question as far as I can tell. Interestingly the CPZ caused enormous vitriol, and now just seems to be accepted.
But yeah. Cars: make people crazy.

 

[Manter]

Probably. They are frantically scribbling ideas on the back of a fag packet. That's why engagement would have been a good idea, even if having road controls at the end were a forgone conclusion. As their introduction to cooperative council says : Citizens are valuable sources of insight and expertise, and are often best placed to identify solutions to meet the needs of their local area.

We tried that down this end and it hasn’t made much difference honestly

 

[Rushy]

We tried that down this end and it hasn’t made much difference honestly

I'm sorry you failed. The council should learn from its mistakes and do it better. If public engagement is too hard for them they should be clear about it and state that they no longer aspire to being cooperative.

 

[Rushy]

I'm sorry you failed. The council should learn from its mistakes and do it better. If public engagement is too hard for them they should be clear about it and state that they no longer aspire to being cooperative.

Manter Did you see that the outcome of the latest Event Strategy review which says that residents will only be consulted if felt appropriate.

 

[cuppa tee]

Don't take my word for it, please. Here are some examples. Its not the people arguing for clean air and quiet streets that are making the debate toxic. Hard to get more recent examples since their boards are closed and they've been booting nonbelievers out.







A few selected from Nextdoor:
View attachment 232642

View attachment 232635

oK, I am gonna eat my words here cos from recent posts it looks there is an element within the ranks of LTN sceptics who are very dodgy indeed......don’t think they are representative of the anti LTN sentiment as a whole tho’ !

 

[teuchter]

There's a certain percentage of people who just go completely mental at anything to do with regulations to do with cars. I used to work with a guy who was completely fucking enraged by speed bumps (they were new at the time, this was the 1980s) and who decided that he'd "punish" the residents - who he had decided were the guilty party for this outrage against his rights - by blasting his horn every time he went over one, for the whole period of the time he was driving over it. He did this every single time. For years. God knows what was happening to his blood pressure.

Cars are bad for you basically.

Maybe he wasn't really angry about the speed bumps. Maybe he was genuinely concerned about the problems associated with speeding. I think he just wasn't happy about the lack of consultation. That was probably the real problem.

 

[Manter]

I'm sorry you failed. The council should learn from its mistakes and do it better. If public engagement is too hard for them they should be clear about it and state that they no longer aspire to being cooperative.

I think we did quite well in many ways but people who hate the idea of any restrictions on their cars are intransigent. And some quite.... scary. What we did as a group of residents was Largely rejected because we weren't the council.

Manter Did you see that the outcome of the latest Event Strategy review which says that residents will only be consulted if felt appropriate.

Jesus That’s terribly messaging

 

[Rushy]

oK, I am gonna eat my words here cos from recent posts it looks there is an element within the ranks of LTN sceptics who are very dodgy indeed.

Pretty sure they exist on both sides.

That letter is obviously entirely unacceptable but using it to define opposition to LTNs is just smearing. I've received similar (repeated letters and threats in relation to a car damaged wall which some loon mistakenly believed was mine and demanded it be repaired before I killed everyone in the community) and the council were remarkably relaxed about it. "I wouldn't worry about it too much, there's always some disenfranchised weirdo lashing out, etc..." And I kind of agreed. They certainly didn't tweet it and wring their hands about the horror.

I was shocked to see long term formal consultees of the LTNs defending their own use of Nazi themed memes about objectors back in the summer. I find that far more worrying because these people are partners with the council. They are actually people with influence displaying astonishing lack of judgement and respect. It's hardly surprising the whole thing is so toxic.

 

[Rushy]

I think we did quite well in many ways but people who hate the idea of any restrictions on their cars are intransigent. And some quite.... scary. What we did as a group of residents was Largely rejected because we weren't the council.

Good on you for trying. But you were only having to do so because the council was not doing so. If cooperative council is at the heart of who they are they need to take the community as they find them. And develop expertise in how to deal with that. Not hide behind some silly pin chart.

 

[Manter]

nm

 

[Manter]

TB clear, I use a car when I need to: I’m not anti car per se. I’m anti excessive and inappropriate use of car that has totally taken over our cities

 

[Gramsci]

Just read on Nextdoor that Lambeth Councillor Tim Briggs is bringing a motion to the next council meeting for all road blockages to be removed, to consult, and to come up with schemes that do not presume an outcome.

I was off work today so looked at One Lambeth FB.

Looks like the more sensible people in One Lambeth are trying to use the local democratic channels.

Briggs as the sole opposition Tory Cllr is doing his job helping residents put their point of view to Council meeting. If it was not for him it would not happen. One Lambeth were asking for people to front up a deputation of residents for the meeting to speak at it. As that is the residents right to do so.

Also on the One Lambeth FB it was asked that people sign the Lambeth Council official petition.

ePetition - Immediate Removal and Cessation of Lambeth’s Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) Schemes | Lambeth Council

moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk

Lots of people have signed the various Change.org petitions but the Labour group on Council can ignore them.

The petition on the Council website needs ( according to FB posts) three thousand people to trigger full Council meeting on the LTNs. Its up to 2700 now.

So looks to me that the oppostion is not all right wing bigots trolling the internet. But people who want a say in the democratic process. Which is right. I dont agree with using pandemic as excuse to roll out schemes with no democratic oversight.

IMO there should be full debate at Council meeting with public allowed to put their case. With questioning of the Council. That is how local democracy should work.

There was also talk of standing anti LTN candidates at next local election. I think the Labour group reckon that is far away and by then the fuss would have died down.

It has worked before - Oxford street pedestrianisation was halted due to anti candidates winning local election seats. Put the shits up the ruling Cllrs. So scheme was scrapped. Well that is how local democracy works.

 

[cuppa tee]

Pretty sure they exist on both sides.

That letter is obviously entirely unacceptable but using it to define opposition to LTNs is just smearing. I've received similar (repeated letters and threats in relation to a car damaged wall which some loon mistakenly believed was mine and demanded it be repaired before I killed everyone in the community) and the council were remarkably relaxed about it. "I wouldn't worry about it too much, there's always some disenfranchised weirdo lashing out, etc..." And I kind of agreed. They certainly didn't tweet it and wring their hands about the horror.

I was shocked to see long term formal consultees of the LTNs defending their own use of Nazi themed memes about objectors back in the summer. I find that far more worrying because these people are partners with the council. They are actually people with influence displaying astonishing lack of judgement and respect. It's hardly surprising the whole thing is so toxic.

yeah I agree this is the case, so I have edited my post to clarify

 

[Jeanette Moo]

So looks to me that the oppostion is not all right wing bigots trolling the internet. But people who want a say in the democratic process. Which is right. I dont agree with using pandemic as excuse to roll out schemes with no democratic oversight.

....and many, many local businesses. Someone said on FB that Pimlico Plumbers, who are based in Lambeth, have been blogging about it. I don't know how many they employ but I can imagine they send a long time on the roads given the equipment they need with them.

London's Leading Service & Maintenance Company | 24/7/365

Pimlico. Emergency Plumbers London. 24 Hours a Day, 7 Days a Week, 365 Days a Year. Plumbers, Heating Engineers, Electricians, Roofers, Carpenters, and Builders all over London.

www.pimlicoplumbers.com

 

[Winot]

....and many, many local businesses. Someone said on FB that Pimlico Plumbers, who are based in Lambeth, have been blogging about it. I don't know how many they employ but I can imagine they send a long time on the roads given the equipment they need with them.

London's Leading Service & Maintenance Company | 24/7/365

Pimlico. Emergency Plumbers London. 24 Hours a Day, 7 Days a Week, 365 Days a Year. Plumbers, Heating Engineers, Electricians, Roofers, Carpenters, and Builders all over London.

www.pimlicoplumbers.com

From that article criticising Sadiq Khan: “It’s time he woke up, listened to the problems of real working people and stopped leading us a merry dance.”

Pretty rich for Pimlico Plumbers to claim to be the champion of “real working people”. This was the company that tried to avoid paying its workers holiday and sick pay by claiming they were self-employed when they weren’t. The case went to the Supreme Court and they lost:

Plumber wins workers' rights battle against Pimlico Plumbers

The Supreme Court ruling has significant implications for the rights of so called gig economy workers.

www.bbc.com

So when you say “I don't know how many they employ” you are more on point than you realise.

 

[sparkybird]

Interesting article about opportunities for businesses in relation to reduced car use....

Peak Car And The Hyper-Local Retail Opportunity

Across the UK, city streets are quietly undergoing radical transformation. Temporary cycle lanes have popped up, footways widened to enable social distancing and, perhaps most drastically, residential roads are being blocked to through traffic.

www.forbes.com