Loose meat
Well-Known Member
I refer the gentleman to the first sentence in the answer he quotes.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I quoted it because it doesn't answer the question.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
The policy come from Cummings and Downing St, is put in train by Dep't of Transport under Grant Schaps, money devolves regionally (inc. to the Mayor/Tfl), boroughs then compete for the money based on local-level proposals.
The usual consultation stages were abandoned/avoided on the basis of the Covid 19 emergency.
As we can see at Railton, peripheral improvements like cycling and walking are pushed to the centre while the issues of large property value increases and environmental injustice are ignored.
£2 billion package to create new era for cycling and walking
Alternative ways to travel, such as walking and cycling, could relieve the pressure on public transport.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
No it didn't.
editor
hiraethified
Seen yesterday...
Debate rages about Lambeth’s Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme on the Brixton forum – have your say!
Lambeth’s Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme (LTN) was the subject of a Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood consultation last year, and looks to reduce car traffic and make routes more attractive to…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
You're not getting the point I've made. A photo of some queuing traffic proves nothing at all. I can post you a photo of an empty Coldharbour Lane if its timed right. Needs traffic counts (and maybe bus reliablity figures to see if delays have increased). That needs to be compared not just to historic figures but to post-Covid figures for general change in traffic levels. And need to look at traffic across the area not just on one road.
This is a Lambeth Transport Strategy - it has been urgently accelerated because COVID reduced public transport capacity. You've been told this many times.
editor
hiraethified
Yes but I live here and I'm telling you that I've absolutely seen a fairly substantial increase in traffic numbers at certain times. Maybe overall the numbers are down - I doubt it - but I'm seeing long queues which weren't the norm in the past and I can't say I like it.
And om Twitter:
Personally I think it's a great idea to reduce car journeys. Public transport is excellent in the area and we should make greater allowances for cycling and to make walking as safe as possible. Sometimes people are stuck in their ways so why not give them a little push to stop using the car unless completely necessary? Sure there will be an adjustment period, but it will be a long term benefit for all residents and improve people's activity levels. Given the number of people living in the area compared to the number of parking spaces I find it hard to believe that the majority of residents are pro driving as much as possible and being able to make journeys in a car faster at the expense of everyone else's quality of life
organicpanda
cat herder extraodinaire
if Lambeth's Transport Strategy was to increase the traffic to levels I have not seen in my 25 years of living on Coldharbour Lane then they've succeeded. Every day (7 days a week) there are queues from the Atlantic Road/Coldharbour Lane traffic lights going to Gresham Road in one direction and Brixton Road in the other, the queues are also happening over more hours than before, the only time it has decreased is the early morning rush hour, shame there is no money to look at these problems here, according to the council when I enquired
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I don't think it was Lambeth's Transport Strategy to introduce a global pandemic that's caused a sudden change in travel patterns and made many people fearful of travelling on public transport.
If your experience is that traffic on that portion of Coldharbour Lane has increased noticeably in the past weeks/months, then I am not going to dispute that - what is now very difficult is to untangle the causes and we simply don't know to what extent the introduction of the Railton LTN is contributing to it.
My question would be: how plausible is it, that the introduction of the Railton LTN is a significant contributor? As I see it, it would depend on a substantial amount of traffic that previously used Shakespeare Rd to get between Loughborough Junction to points west of Brixton. Does that make sense? For example if you want to get from LJ to Acre Lane, was the route via Shakespeare Rd previously a popular/quicker one? I'm not actually sure - I don't drive very often, but in the past I'd always have gone along CHL. I might have used the Shakespeare Rd route to get to Herne Hill but I'd have thought my alternative route now would be along Milkwood Rd, not via central Brixton.
But there's a whole load of other things going on: there ought to be hardly any traffic now trying to join CHL from Railton Rd at the Dogstar Junction, which I'd have thought would decrease the number of vehicles trying to get along CHL. On the other hand of course Atlantic Rd is closed, limiting the capacity to the west of the dogstar bridge, but that's not part of the Railton LTN scheme, it's been enforced by the viaduct repairs. On top of this, there are various narrowings of lanes in the area resulting from pavement widening.
So there are a multitude of causes that could be contributing to any observed increase along CHL. It would be foolish for me to try and say the Railton LTN can't be involved, but at the same time, there's no way at this stage of showing that it is, in any significant way. So that's the objection to posting pictures of traffic queued up and accompanying them with comments about the Railton LTN - it implies there's an obvious connection when there isn't.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Yep, we can all get behind that. No matter how it's sold to the public, reconfiguring 500m of Railton Road doesn't do that, it just creates a lot of diversions as well as environmental injustices.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
What's "phase 2" bulid a wall across Brixton Road, give everyone Lycra shorts and declare the climate emergency sorted?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Yes it does, that's the whole point of LTNs.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Why are you responding to me and not poor organicpanda on CHL a few posts up. Are you denying that experience?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
teuchter already did a big reply to that. I haven't noticed CHL to be busy the times I've been down there, but you're missing the point - there isn't x number of cars that have to be catered for, traffic levels can go down - if you want them to go up lets just build a motorway through...
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
If you want traffic to go up keep supporting LTNs that force diversions as much as this Rialton area stupidity. LTNs can't even muster a single cycle lane. FFS.
I think a large part of the point of the ltn is that if you have to make a lot of diversions and it's a pain to drive somewhere that you could use other transportation to get to (e.g. walk, cycle or public transport) then you'll reconsider
teuchter
je suis teuchter
LTNs themselves aren't supposed to be about cycle lanes, which should be obvious to you if you've considered all this as much as you claim to have. Cycle lanes can certainly be provided in parallel. Where specifically would you like to see a cycle lane, or will you once again flake out of the discussion as soon as you asked to consider the details and practicalities of alternatives to the things you object to?
organicpanda
cat herder extraodinaire
I was being a tad sarky regarding the council's transport strategy. the amount and times of traffic is truly out of whack compared to pre-virus in theory the traffic should be able to move quicker, no right turns into Atlantic Road backing up for instance, on the other hand there are a lot more HGV's but wether that's from Shakespeare Road or the building of the new theatre I have no idea, I don't think any of the traffic that would have used Railton Road is now coming down here and can only guess where it does come from, all I know is there is definitely more of it and at times a lot more, would be interesting if there had been a pollution checker to see the difference between now, lockdown and pre lockdown
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Best if you concentrate on counting your property windfall.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
If all else fails just shout gentrification or property windfall. Glad to see the 'keep Brixton shit' campaign is still going strong. Power to the people Wolfie!
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
Aren't you the character with the MS Paint map who was telling us the Moorlands Estate was part of the scheme? Top value contributor.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
The whole point of an LTN is that it is Low Traffic therefore it's safer to cycle as there is less traffic and no need for those cycle lanes to try and protect cyclists from car drivers.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Im saying is that I hope Lambeth are doing a proper study of how the Railton road LTN may affect nearby roads like Coldharbour.
All you do is come back and say this is the "Strategy". And dont give me "the "You've been told this many times".
Ive told you many times this is temporary scheme. Lambeth say full consultation will happen later.
Given this is temporary scheme I expect Lambeth to do proper studies of how this nearby Railton LTN has affected local nearby streets like Coldharbour lane.
The road me and others posting here live on.
Do you have a problem with that?
Once the temporary scheme ends and full consultation begins again that was cut short I want evidence to make and opinion on.
Not be told by someone like you that this is just "Lambeth Transport Strategy".
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Loose meat
Well-Known Member
The whole effect of an LTN is that it is High Traffic eveywhere around it - pollution is more concentrated. The peole posting here live on CHL.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
It just shows how completely shameless the Sharp Elbows can be when there's decent money in it for them. Never buy a car off anyone who lives around Railton.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
As someone who has long experience of Lambeth "consultations" my view is that if local people who live on CHL report more traffic on CHL at the same time that the Railton LTN was introduced its up to the Council to produce a properly researched report for its residents to see whether the introduction of the Railton LTN has had any effect on those living on CHL.
If not what are the other factors that have? If that is the case,
Its not me as a resident who has the responsibility to disprove it was the introduction of Railton LTN has had effect.
The Council brought in this scheme under Covid powers its up to it to produce the evidence.
My view is that they might not. Citing expense of doing the work. I hope to be proved wrong.
If not what are the other factors that have? If that is the case,
Its not me as a resident who has the responsibility to disprove it was the introduction of Railton LTN has had effect.
The Council brought in this scheme under Covid powers its up to it to produce the evidence.
My view is that they might not. Citing expense of doing the work. I hope to be proved wrong.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
No-one claimed the Moorlands estate was inside the LTN. The diagram was quite clear: the blue line defined the edge of the LTN and the moorlands estate was drawn outside of that line. Look at the equivalent Oval Triangle diagram - there are also social housing estates, outside the LTN, shown on that one.
As I understand it, the social housing estates outside of the LTNs were there as an illustration that, contrary to some claims, the pattern is not that the main roads are lined with social housing while the streets interior to the LTNs are exclusively private housing.
The Moorlands Estate does border onto Colharbour Lane (and Coldharbour Lane is one of the roads that may see displaced traffic). But if you look at the diagram it shows that the majority of the Moorlands Estate does not face CHL at all. In fact it's shielded from CHL by the barrier block which as we all know was built in anticipation of a major ring road being built along the line of CHL.
The diagrams are being wilfully misread. I can see that a passing glance might conclude that there's a claim that Moorlands is somehow inside the zone. But look at them properly and you can see that there was no intention to suggest that.
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