Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Agent Sparrow]

I think it’s pretty damn hard to get a blue badge, suggesting that misuse wouldn’t be an issue or would only involve a tiny number of drivers. I suspect there’s more people who would benefit from a blue badge but can’t get one than use them illicitly.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Unfortunately all the road issues would be resolved if people en mass were better at a) empathising with people with different needs and resources to them (including accepting that certain groups need accommodations), whilst b) being able to keep the needs of the many in mind, even if it means slightly inconveniencing themselves. I’m applying that to both “sides” of the LTN debate fwiw. IME people are good at a) when it’s on a small and personal level but lose the ability when the numbers get bigger and the degrees of separation increase. As for b), I think COVID showed that’s incredibly difficult.

What else can we do? It’s hard not sometimes to think we’re perpetually doomed as a species.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

And therefore ends Sparrow’s cheerful thoughts for the morning

 

[Bus Stopped]

Traffic has been awful for a while now. Both from Norbury in to Streatham in the morning and back through Streatham in the evening. Currently gridlocked. Greyhound Lane also massive jams in the morning.

Buses terrible and if I drive to do the school run I have to go back via a huge divert via Crownpoint.

Surely the benefits don’t outweigh the down sides?

 

[BusLanes]

Took a bus through just now and it was fine. Although obviously not rush hour

 

[Bus Stopped]

Took a bus through just now and it was fine. Although obviously not rush hour

There aren’t problems outside of commuting. No one has claimed there is. But that’s not when most people are using buses.

 

[Smick]

There aren’t problems outside of commuting. No one has claimed there is. But that’s not when most people are using buses.

The objective is to get everyone on to bicycles or to walk. That’s why there has been no improvement of bus services in parallel with the implementation of LTN.

 

[teuchter]

The objective is to get everyone on to bicycles or to walk.

No it's not.

That’s why there has been no improvement of bus services in parallel with the implementation of LTN.

The bus services through Streatham are constrained by the physical reality of the road and the amount of traffic trying to use it. It's hard to see how they could be improved, without getting rid of all the car traffic. As discussed earlier in the thread, perhaps something could be done to the design of the junction at the southern end of Streatham that would improve things, but there aren't any magic fixes.

 

[thebackrow]

No it's not.

The bus services through Streatham are constrained by the physical reality of the road and the amount of traffic trying to use it. It's hard to see how they could be improved, without getting rid of all the car traffic. As discussed earlier in the thread, perhaps something could be done to the design of the junction at the southern end of Streatham that would improve things, but there aren't any magic fixes.

The bus services are also run by TfL (who also manage the A23) and not by Lambeth. Bus priority on Streatham High Road has increased - the bus lanes changed to At All Times (from m-f peak hours) in 2020/21. There probably is scope for extending bus lanes further and using traffic light 'gates' to give buses priority where it's too narrow for bus and general traffic lanes.

Public transport services require subsidy and TfL's funding is effectively set by central government. COVID destroyed TfL's reserves and they have had to fight for every grant and to maintain existing bus services (which run at a loss).

New funding from the Mayor saves vast majority of London's buses

New funding from the Mayor saves vast majority of London's buse

tfl.gov.uk

In any case, I don't think better bus services would do anything to appease the majority of complainants about Streatham's LTNs

 

[Bus Stopped]

The bus services are also run by TfL (who also manage the A23) and not by Lambeth. Bus priority on Streatham High Road has increased - the bus lanes changed to At All Times (from m-f peak hours) in 2020/21. There probably is scope for extending bus lanes further and using traffic light 'gates' to give buses priority where it's too narrow for bus and general traffic lanes.

Public transport services require subsidy and TfL's funding is effectively set by central government. COVID destroyed TfL's reserves and they have had to fight for every grant and to maintain existing bus services (which run at a loss).

New funding from the Mayor saves vast majority of London's buses

New funding from the Mayor saves vast majority of London's buse

tfl.gov.uk

In any case, I don't think better bus services would do anything to appease the majority of complainants about Streatham's LTNs

Personally I’ve got no issue with Streatham LTNs, just the Streatham wells one. It’s still causing huge problems and seems to be doing more harm than good.

Granted it’s not as bad as when it started but it certainly hasn’t gone back to normal a few months down the line.

 

[sparkybird]

Personally I’ve got no issue with Streatham LTNs, just the Streatham wells one. It’s still causing huge problems and seems to be doing more harm than good.

Granted it’s not as bad as when it started but it certainly hasn’t gone back to normal a few months down the line.

I think the Streatham Wells one will require the biggest shift in driver behaviour change, which unfortunately is going to take longer than a few months.
At the end of the day we need less people to be driving if they can use alternative means. That will leave more space for public transport.
Found out today that someone who has been out at the no entry signs warning drivers about the fines, lives less than 10 mins walk away from the filter, but he drives there from home. This is what we are dealing with. How do you change that behaviour???

 

[RoyReed]

 

[edcraw]

Good example here of how opponents of LTNs are actually just against any traffic restrictions - and just look at the crazy replies these guys attract?!!

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Good example here of how opponents of LTNs are actually just against any traffic restrictions - and just look at the crazy replies these guys attract?!!

sounds interesting about the replies, can you threadreader it for those without twatter acounts?

 

[Bus Stopped]

Buses were being diverted down Leigham Court Road on my way home as the traffic was so bad. It’s getting bizarre now.

 

[sparkybird]

Buses were being diverted down Leigham Court Road on my way home as the traffic was so bad. It’s getting bizarre now.

Sadly there was a car crash on A23 by Aldi.
Mind you I walked along that section later on 7.30 pm and noticed 2 vans parked on the red route (one on northbound carriageway, other on southbound, almost opposite eachother) which was causing chaos. It doesn't take much....

 

[Bus Stopped]

Sadly there was a car crash on A23 by Aldi.
Mind you I walked along that section later on 7.30 pm and noticed 2 vans parked on the red route (one on northbound carriageway, other on southbound, almost opposite eachother) which was causing chaos. It doesn't take much....

Oh no hope they’re ok.

I’m fed up with it all in terms of the buses but if this is the new reality I’m trying to be reflective. I made the mistake of going on twitter (never use it), and the debate there is awful. On both sides but the anti LTN contributions to seem to be quite a lot worse. The thing is issues about the individual LTN get lost in a wider culture war with rants about Sadiq Khan, ULEZ, conspiracy theories etc

 

[edcraw]

Oh no hope they’re ok.

I’m fed up with it all in terms of the buses but if this is the new reality I’m trying to be reflective. I made the mistake of going on twitter (never use it), and the debate there is awful. On both sides but the anti LTN contributions to seem to be quite a lot worse. The thing is issues about the individual LTN get lost in a wider culture war with rants about Sadiq Khan, ULEZ, conspiracy theories etc

That’s because most that are against an LTN are actually against all measures to deal with traffic because the issues they claim to exist don’t. We’re not going to improve traffic on the A23 by having traffic everywhere.

 

[sparkybird]

Oh no hope they’re ok.

I’m fed up with it all in terms of the buses but if this is the new reality I’m trying to be reflective. I made the mistake of going on twitter (never use it), and the debate there is awful. On both sides but the anti LTN contributions to seem to be quite a lot worse. The thing is issues about the individual LTN get lost in a wider culture war with rants about Sadiq Khan, ULEZ, conspiracy theories etc

I've pretty much given up posting on SM - personal information about me has been shared among those who don't support LTN's, which quite scared me. They know where I live and have clearly been watching me. I honestly don't know how Cllrs and MP's manage to live normal lives. It's very sad

 

[Bus Stopped]

I've pretty much given up posting on SM - personal information about me has been shared among those who don't support LTN's, which quite scared me. They know where I live and have clearly been watching me. I honestly don't know how Cllrs and MP's manage to live normal lives. It's very sad

That’s so out of orders. Utter tossers.

I pulled down a couple of big St George’s flag anti ULEZ stickers today.

 

[editor]

Too many abbreviations there for my liking.

 

[edcraw]

Lambeth LTN Watch are apparently campaigning against parking controls in West Dulwich as well. Can’t help that these people probably drive absolutely everywhere so are just blind to the awful impact cars have on everyone.

 

[thebackrow]

I've pretty much given up posting on SM - personal information about me has been shared among those who don't support LTN's, which quite scared me. They know where I live and have clearly been watching me. I honestly don't know how Cllrs and MP's manage to live normal lives. It's very sad

Personal attacks have always been the antis standard operating procedure. Bully people until they stop speaking up in support - I remember it back at the public meetings for Loughborough Junction and for Quietway 7 almost a decade ago. And the same happened last year at the Streatham Wells meetings the local councillors attended. The police had to visit a 1Lambeth leader in Oval because they were putting up photos of peoples homes and they still repeatedly post carefully edited mis-representative videos from a private residents association zoom there. They can't argue against the policy aims, they've lost on data, lost in court so all they have is personal attacks on people.

Streatham is definitely causing some issues in the short term. But these are largely the same people who said the world was going to end because of each of the other LTNs and, as far as I can see when I'm travelling around the borough all of the others have bedded in. The neighbourhoods are significantly nicer places to be and the roads around them have adapted.

 

[PlasT]

Assume there are roadworks or something somewhere (or just the rain) but it has been a bit of a shitshow for anyone trying to use the bus at rush hour the last few days. Jammed up badly again this evening, Friday normally one of the quieter days as well

 

[PlasT]

Nice to see some acknowledgment that it’s causing problems!

 

[sparkybird]

Nice to see some acknowledgment that it’s causing problems!

Shrubbery Road closed, numerous car crashes on A23 during the week plus buses being held up by single occupancy car drivers.

 

[Bus Stopped]

Shrubbery Road closed, numerous car crashes on A23 during the week plus buses being held up by single occupancy car drivers.

The problem is that there have been huge issues with buses throughout the last four months. There will always be road works, car accidents etc on that route and clearly things have been significantly worse than it was before.

And yes single occupancy cars are a big problem but how does that help bus users massively inconvenienced by the latest LTN?

And we see from one of posts above yours how it’s not possible to have debates about how a particular LTN might not work. Who cares if previous LTNs have worked it this one isn’t working? Four months is quite a long time to bed in, are things really going to get any better from here?

Also there is the issue that it might make some areas nicer. But if you live on the main road or LCR it makes lives worse.

The problem is that each and every LTN becomes a culture war. And to be honest I get why people don’t want to back down to a right wing anti green agenda. But sadly it means discussions about whether the Streatham LTN is working are all but impossible.

 

[edcraw]

The problem is that there have been huge issues with buses throughout the last four months. There will always be road works, car accidents etc on that route and clearly things have been significantly worse than it was before.

And yes single occupancy cars are a big problem but how does that help bus users massively inconvenienced by the latest LTN?

And we see from one of posts above yours how it’s not possible to have debates about how a particular LTN might not work. Who cares if previous LTNs have worked it this one isn’t working? Four months is quite a long time to bed in, are things really going to get any better from here?

Also there is the issue that it might make some areas nicer. But if you live on the main road or LCR it makes lives worse.

The problem is that each and every LTN becomes a culture war. And to be honest I get why people don’t want to back down to a right wing anti green agenda. But sadly it means discussions about whether the Streatham LTN is working are all but impossible.

Decisions need to be based on data and the trial let happen with the council make changes accordingly.

As you allude, LTN opponents have used up any goodwill they may have had a long long time ago and most are explicitly campaigning for all LTNs to be removed.

Wandsworth removed their LTNs because of a vocal anti campaign (led by the same person leading the campaign against this one) and now are getting backlash against stopping some turns and installing zebra crossings by Chestnut Grove school.

 

[teuchter]

Has some TfL data just been published? There seems to be a spate of news articles about bus delays today.

 

[edcraw]

Think it stems from this from LBC - the author is an active member of Lambeth LTN Watch and has been campaigning against LTNs from the very start.

Three mile bus journeys take two hours in low-traffic neighbourhoods with TfL blaming 'serious' delays on scheme

A new low-traffic neighbourhood (LTN) is causing such bad congestion that buses running along its boundary are taking up to two hours to travel less than three miles.

www.lbc.co.uk