Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Winot]

I don't actually want to give each household space for two cars I just think as a first step we should stop any household having more than two cars. And maybe phase down to one over time unless they can prove it is 100% necessary for their occupation.

Local authorities don’t have this power.

You are making the perfect the enemy of the good.

 

[Winot]

I think Lambeth is grabbing money to fill budget holes because they are limited to only a 5% council tax increase.

Good

 

[Cat Fan]

Good

Unequal stealth taxation is hardly good

I would suggest they look for savings elsewhere e.g. stop spending millions on trying to be a property developer

 

[Winot]

Unequal stealth taxation is hardly good

I would suggest they look for savings elsewhere e.g. stop spending millions on trying to be a property developer

Again - you seem to want to redesign society from the ground up and take no action until you have a perfectly consistent model.

 

[alex_]

Not necessarily true, wealthier people often own these massive SUVs that are the most polluting.

we need to change behaviour over the medium/long term including making owning and running an EV more affordable to everyone. That's why the council wants to install more charging points as part of the kerbside strategy.

But they are likely to be newer which means they have lower emissions…….

Eg Land Rover, Range Rover Sport, ULEZ Compliant, Leather, Sat Nav, Parking Sensors, 21" Alloy Wheels, Bluetooth, Panoramic Roof, Heated Seats, Climate Control 50k Range Rover, 200g co2 per km.

Meanwhile I’m pretty sure only rich people drive teslas.

 

[BusLanes]

Good

They are only doing 3% it seems

 

[teuchter]

Your argument is basically that we should cross subsidise,

No that's not "basically" my argument.

You give the impression of skim reading what others are saying and then typing out a number of non sequiturs that aren't even consistent in themselves.

 

[nagapie]

Good

Let's not conflate issues, Lambeth's record on spending public funds is riddled with misuse.

 

[Cat Fan]

They are only doing 3% it seems

Ah sorry, I stand corrected

 

[Cat Fan]

Meanwhile I’m pretty sure only rich people drive teslas.

There are much more affordable EVs out there. Even Tesla is now reportedly working on a cheaper, smaller car that will be "half the cost" of their current cheapest model.

The government is currently planning to ban all new petrol/diesel cars from 2030 so by 2040 or 2050 we should see a lot more on the roads.

I'll believe it when I see it though.

 

[Winot]

Let's not conflate issues, Lambeth's record on spending public funds is riddled with misuse.

Right, but they have to raise money from somewhere.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Not necessarily true, wealthier people often own these massive SUVs that are the most polluting.

we need to change behaviour over the medium/long term including making owning and running an EV more affordable to everyone. That's why the council wants to install more charging points as part of the kerbside strategy.

I've mentioned that most electricity comes from fossil fuels anyway, but aside from that we don't have the space on the roads for everyone to get in their car and drive - ev or otherwise. It's not a solution.

 

[nagapie]

Right, but they have to raise money from somewhere.

It's not where they're raising it from, the issue being discussed here, but where it goes that concerns me; Lambeth services being awful across the board.
So I can't ever reward Lambeth taking money with a good even if I don't agree with some of the nonsense about parking spaces being comparable to paying for health or it being acceptable to expect two parking spaces per household.

 

[alex_]

There are much more affordable EVs out there. Even Tesla is now reportedly working on a cheaper, smaller car that will be "half the cost" of their current cheapest model.

The government is currently planning to ban all new petrol/diesel cars from 2030 so by 2040 or 2050 we should see a lot more on the roads.

I'll believe it when I see it though.

You’ve gone from less well off people drive lower emission cars, to anyone can afford an electric vehicle.

 

[alex_]

I've mentioned that most electricity comes from fossil fuels anyway, but aside from that we don't have the space on the roads for everyone to get in their car and drive - ev or otherwise. It's not a solution.

Increasingly this isn’t true, this is U.K. energy generation since 2009

Look at the increasing role wind plays, and the decreasing carbon intensity

 

[BigTom]

Increasingly this isn’t true, this is U.K. energy generation since 2009

Look at the increasing role wind plays, and the decreasing carbon intensity

I didn't realise we'd crossed the boundary but actually in the past 12 months, we've gone below 50%:

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network

grid.iamkate.com

 

[Cat Fan]

we don't have the space on the roads for everyone to get in their car and drive - ev or otherwise. It's not a solution.

Not everyone is driving all the time. The problem is mostly with peak time traffic (including school run). So maybe we should focus on ways to reduce reliance on cars for commuting and pick up/drop off.

The council is making owning a car more expensive for those without a driveway, fair enough but it's a blunt instrument it's not at all targeted and rich people will just pay it without thinking.

 

[alex_]

I didn't realise we'd crossed the boundary but actually in the past 12 months, we've gone below 50%:

View attachment 364001

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network

grid.iamkate.com

U.K. wind capacity is forecast to increase 4x between now and 2030, and most of the generation capacity to do this is in the process of being built.

This means that a lot of nights for a couple of hours, electricity will be very, very cheap as supply will be greater than demand.

Incidentally the renewables program which has led to this situation is probably the only thing the tories have done well in 13 years of government.

 

[Cat Fan]

You’ve gone from less well off people drive lower emission cars, to anyone can afford an electric vehicle.

Not exactly. I'm saying that EVs are becoming more affordable as the technology matures and eventually they will hopefully be cheaper to own and run than petrol.

We do desperately need more public charge points though because not everyone has off street parking.

Long term it would be nice for more people to use the Zipcar model, and have dedicated car share bays with built in charging. Then I think a lot of people would give up their private cars.

 

[Cat Fan]

U.K. wind capacity is forecast to increase 4x between now and 2030, and most of the generation capacity to do this is in the process of being built.

This means that a lot of nights for a couple of hours, electricity will be very, very cheap as supply will be greater than demand.

Incidentally the renewables program which has led to this situation is probably the only thing the tories have done well in 13 years of government.

Now if only we had a way to use all that surplus wind power efficiently at a time where cars are parked and need to be recharged...

 

[Winot]

.

Long term it would be nice for more people to use the Zipcar model, and have dedicated car share bays with built in charging. Then I think a lot of people would give up their private cars.

The neighbour I mentioned earlier is considering giving up her car and joining Zipcar. Higher parking charges and the impact of LTNs will encourage this.

 

[alex_]

U.K. wind capacity is forecast to increase 4x between now and 2030, and most of the generation capacity to do this is in the process of being built.

This means that a lot of nights for a couple of hours, electricity will be very, very cheap as supply will be greater than demand.

Incidentally the renewables program which has led to this situation is probably the only thing the tories have done well in 13 years of government.

I got this slightly wrong, offshore wind increases 4x, total wind capacity increases 2.5x ish

 

[alex_]

Now if only we had a way to use all that surplus wind power efficiently at a time where cars are parked and need to be recharged...

I don’t think it’s an accident the U.K. has a target for massive increases in wind capacity the same year you can only buy new ev cars.

They do need more street parking charging on the same timescale.

The issue with cheap energy overnight is that everyone with a car needs to be plugged in, which means a lot of plugs.

 

[Cat Fan]

Only if they drive a lot every day. Ideally they would walk/cycle/scoot for the school run, commute on public transport and then only need to charge once every X days.

But on the other hand wall plug charging is very slow, so some infrastructure for faster charging would make things a lot more efficient.

 

[sparkybird]

Yeah, we don't actually use the car daily or even weekly sometimes so you're preaching to the converted. But there are a lot of elderly/disabled folk around who would struggle with walking even a mile, and we're on a steepish hill.

I can't really see why anyone would need multiple cars but there is a house on our road that has at least three or four regularly coming and going, plus a trade van..

The other equality/fairness angle is houses which have been converted with a dropped kerb. They don't pay any parking charge but they're taking away valuable kerbside space.

Not sure it is fair for them to get away from paying anything while you guys think people who have to park on street should pay thousands.

It sounds like you might be better off switching to a zip car then if your car is used so infrequently? Would you consider it?
I think it's a bit of a misnomer that elderly and disabled people use cars as they can't get around otherwise. None of my elderly neighbours have cars and some live on a steep hill.
Of course I don't think it's fair that those with dropped kerbs don't pay, but it's pretty difficult for Lambeth to charge them for parking on their own property. Lambeth do make it very difficult and expensive now to get a dropped kerb, obviously can't do anything about historical ones unfortunately. But really dropped kerbs are still pretty unusual in most parts of Lambeth. The majority of private vehicles are still parked on the public street.

 

[Rushy]

The neighbour I mentioned earlier is considering giving up her car and joining Zipcar. Higher parking charges and the impact of LTNs will encourage this.

I was surprised to read in the kerbside strategy that less than 40% of regular car club users actually get rid of their car!

 

[Winot]

I was surprised to read in the kerbside strategy that less than 40% of regular car club users actually get rid of their car!

That is bizarre. Maybe it’s replaced the second car?

 

[Rushy]

That is bizarre. Maybe it’s replaced the second car?

Quite. I also assume given the way that Lambeth cherry picks their data that it's an even lower figure for less-than-regular car club users.

 

[Winot]

Meanwhile:

 

[Cat Fan]

It sounds like you might be better off switching to a zip car then if your car is used so infrequently? Would you consider it?
I think it's a bit of a misnomer that elderly and disabled people use cars as they can't get around otherwise. None of my elderly neighbours have cars and some live on a steep hill.
Of course I don't think it's fair that those with dropped kerbs don't pay, but it's pretty difficult for Lambeth to charge them for parking on their own property. Lambeth do make it very difficult and expensive now to get a dropped kerb, obviously can't do anything about historical ones unfortunately. But really dropped kerbs are still pretty unusual in most parts of Lambeth. The majority of private vehicles are still parked on the public street.

I used zip cars and the odd taxi before we got a car. Now that we have pre school children it's a bit more of a safety issue and it's hard to travel with 2x bulky car seats.

Also LTNs made it harder for us because we are "stranded" on the wrong side of the barriers to access our nearest Zipcar bay.

All that said I'd definitely consider switching back in future. There are no insurmountable obstacles to switching.