Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Cat Fan]

I broadly agree here. Top of the list when I responded to the consultation to the filter design for upper tulse hill was "make sure motorbikes can't mount the pavement" but second was "don't build something that needs ongoing maintenance" because it's just not realistic to expect from Lambeth.

Pocket Parks are a terrible idea IMO. Unless there's clear ownership/maintenance then they're just destined to be litter bins.

Yes, spot on.

It's an area where there is an abandoned broken car, graffiti on the commercial bins (which aren't properly stored or secured) graffiti on every street sign. Large graffiti on the side of the terrace because of the adjoining flat roof which people can climb on. Even the private flat building ground floor area is full of junk.

The shop fronts look run down and neglected.

There's so much Lambeth could spend money on usefully, rather than a kerbside vanity project which will instantly be a litter magnet.

 

[thebackrow]

Yes, spot on.

It's an area where there is an abandoned broken car, graffiti on the commercial bins (which aren't properly stored or secured) graffiti on every street sign. Large graffiti on the side of the terrace because of the adjoining flat roof which people can climb on. Even the private flat building ground floor area is full of junk.

The shop fronts look run down and neglected.

There's so much Lambeth could spend money on usefully, rather than a kerbside vanity project which will instantly be a litter magnet.

Perhaps people would take better care of the area if it was a more attractive place to be?

 

[Crispy]

Perhaps people would take better care of the area if it was a more attractive place to be?

I await the fate of the Atlantic Road parklets with interest. I predict the planting will not last a year. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong.

 

[teuchter]

There are parklets and parklets... I agree realistic ambitions about maintenance have to be had, but it doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Low maintenance options for example include a largely paved area but with seating and trees. This approach works quite well at the end of Shakespeare Rd - and the seating is often well used.



And there are some locations where they survive surprisingly well, eg this one at the junction of Milkwood Rd and Lowden Rd. I don't know if that's because local residents keep it tidy, or whether it's because it's a good planting scheme.

 

[Crispy]

There are parklets and parklets... I agree realistic ambitions about maintenance have to be had, but it doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Low maintenance options for example include a largely paved area but with seating and trees. This approach works quite well at the end of Shakespeare Rd - and the seating is often well used.



And there are some locations where they survive surprisingly well, eg this one at the junction of Milkwood Rd and Lowden Rd. I don't know if that's because local residents keep it tidy, or whether it's because it's a good planting scheme.

Yes those work well. There's some geurilla gardening been done round my way that also seems to have worked well. They chose hardy plants that have fully colonised the space and have made it to maturity without being trampled. But I think it mostly depends on how heavily used the area is. Those two examples have relatively low foot traffic. Atlantic Road gets crowded, and especially at night when people might not be taking the greatest care about where they tread...

So the Hillside Road area could go either way I suppose.

 

[Rushy]

View attachment 361479

Two shrubberies with one placed slightly higher, so we get the two-level effect with a little path running down the middle. Ni!

 

[Cat Fan]

Perhaps people would take better care of the area if it was a more attractive place to be?

Yeah, it's a bit of chicken and egg. I just hope they do a bit of a revamp on the whole street not just redoing a few parking bays.

 

[Cat Fan]

There are parklets and parklets... I agree realistic ambitions about maintenance have to be had, but it doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Low maintenance options for example include a largely paved area but with seating and trees. This approach works quite well at the end of Shakespeare Rd - and the seating is often well used.

View attachment 361478

And there are some locations where they survive surprisingly well, eg this one at the junction of Milkwood Rd and Lowden Rd. I don't know if that's because local residents keep it tidy, or whether it's because it's a good planting scheme.

View attachment 361479

The Shakespeare road one looks good, but that's more of a larger, square shaped space, I was thinking of the reclaimed kerbside ones.

The milkwood one looks a bit overgrown but at least the plants are alive. Key factor being they're not adjacent to a footway so no people/dogs stepping on them.

I'm more going on the existing planters where the plants are all dead and replaced by weeds. Possibly they died in last summer's heatwave.

 

[Rushy]

These kinds of plants are robust and need very little maintenance and care once they read this size. Hedgerow plants provide amazing habitat but are perhaps faster growing and need more cutting. Problems are a) caring for them whilst they establish and b) in some areas, particularly central Brixton, they get used for cover for antisocial or nefarious activity and police / safer neighbourhood team / etc.. call for them to be chopped back. St Matthews Peace Gardens and Rush Common for example. Brockwell Park too, in the past.

 

[Crispy]

The Shakespeare road one looks good, but that's more of a larger, square shaped space, I was thinking of the reclaimed kerbside ones.

The milkwood one looks a bit overgrown but at least the plants are alive. Key factor being they're not adjacent to a footway so no people/dogs stepping on them.

I'm more going on the existing planters where the plants are all dead and replaced by weeds. Possibly they died in last summer's heatwave.

Planters can't access deep groundwater (and leaking mains!) so always get murdered by heatwaves. Anything but planters!

 

[Cat Fan]

I'm glad the police didn't get their way and chop down all the greenery in Brockwell Park. I'm sure if the police had their way we would all have an 8pm curfew.

 

[teuchter]

This on Landor Rd has been there for about 10 years now and also seems to be a "survivor".



I agree with "anything but planters". Waiting to see how long it takes for the giant ones along a stretch of Coldharbour Lane in Loughborough Junction to collapse.

And using timber for edging never works either - inevitably goes rotten.

 

[Jimbeau]

This on Landor Rd has been there for about 10 years now and also seems to be a "survivor".

View attachment 361491

I agree with "anything but planters". Waiting to see how long it takes for the giant ones along a stretch of Coldharbour Lane in Loughborough Junction to collapse.

And using timber for edging never works either - inevitably goes rotten.

That’s the original Edible Bus Stop site, isn’t it? They’re a community trust these days and presumably set their projects up to be cared for properly.

There’s also the Doodlebug Garden on the Daysbrook/Wavertree corner in Streatham hill which looks to be managed in a similar way. Don’t know much about but it’s a nice spot to sit and has a street library that we used a few times during lockdown.

 

[Cat Fan]

That’s the original Edible Bus Stop site, isn’t it? They’re a community trust these days and presumably set their projects up to be cared for properly.

There’s also the Doodlebug Garden on the Daysbrook/Wavertree corner in Streatham hill which looks to be managed in a similar way. Don’t know much about but it’s a nice spot to sit and has a street library that we used a few times during lockdown.

I think Doodlebug garden was built and maintained by the adjacent school. Great idea and some nice kids books as well.

 

[DaphneM]

Parks only work if they're big enough to kick a ball. Literally no one uses parklets.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264275122002438

 

[Cat Fan]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264275122002438

I think that study is on pocket parks, not parklets (which are pocket parks built on former parking spaces)

My experience is that no one uses parklets unless they are built as a seating area outside an existing popular cafe or restaurant. Then they do get used, for obvious reasons

 

[thebackrow]

This on Landor Rd has been there for about 10 years now and also seems to be a "survivor".

View attachment 361491

I agree with "anything but planters". Waiting to see how long it takes for the giant ones along a stretch of Coldharbour Lane in Loughborough Junction to collapse.

And using timber for edging never works either - inevitably goes rotten.

The above ground wooden planters are being used for the trials - the summer heat this year meant that even if people helped water them they were unlikely to survive (but that was, hopefully, unusual weather). The edible bus stop was previously a patch of littered, fly tipped waste ground but now enhances the area.

Vauxhall Walk show what can be done with onstreet planting that looks both impressive, varied, and trample proof.


I'm puzzled by the disconnect of 'theres a strong community here', 'the streets look shit and uncared for', 'we shouldn't have nice things because they'll just get vandalised', 'look at all the litter'

Pick up litter and put it in a bin rather than walking past and moaning about it. Water the plants on your street rather than relying on someone else to do it. thats 'community spirit' isn't it?

 

[Jimbeau]

Anyone who has spent any length of time in Hong Kong will have come across the rather prosaically-named 'Sitting-Out Areas' - which old folk often call 'three-cornered shit pits'. They're tiny spaces that occupy the sites of old public privies or plots where old tong lau row houses have been taken down. There are hundreds of them, on Hong Kong Island especially. Often they're the only outdoor space people can easily access, and while a bit grey and municipal, they're incredibly well cared-for. HK is a city where people rise early and where the sun sets by 7pm even in midsummer, but I was always struck how these places seemed to be used well into the small hours of the morning.

In the past few years, the Hong Kong Design Trust has been doing some really interesting studies into how these places are used, and how they can be improved. Design Trust

How the densely populated city of Hong Kong is turning social spaces into magnificent micro parks

Space is hard to come by in Hong Kong, but a new initiative is seeing the radical transformation of tiny public spaces into bright, welcoming hangouts.

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk

 

[Cat Fan]

The above ground wooden planters are being used for the trials - the summer heat this year meant that even if people helped water them they were unlikely to survive (but that was, hopefully, unusual weather). The edible bus stop was previously a patch of littered, fly tipped waste ground but now enhances the area.

Vauxhall Walk show what can be done with onstreet planting that looks both impressive, varied, and trample proof.
View attachment 361544

I'm puzzled by the disconnect of 'theres a strong community here', 'the streets look shit and uncared for', 'we shouldn't have nice things because they'll just get vandalised', 'look at all the litter'

Pick up litter and put it in a bin rather than walking past and moaning about it. Water the plants on your street rather than relying on someone else to do it. thats 'community spirit' isn't it?

I'm not climbing up on walls to scrub graffiti, I have two small kids to care for, thank you very much!

It's more the fly tipping, graffiti, junk and abandoned car that are bringing the area down it's not the odd crisp packet.

The nearby park is well cared for by the council and the community. But it's a bit much asking people to go around watering all the planters scattered around, e.g. on road junctions. Much better to install something that can survive on its own.

 

[liquidindian]

Supreme Court refuses Lambeth LTN appeal

Work on a ‘bus gate’ on Atlantic Road, part of the Railton LTN The Supreme Court has refused to hear an appeal by campaigners against low traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) in Lambeth. The decision was made on 8 December last year, but only announced more recently. The OneLambeth campaign group

brixtonblog.com

Supreme Court judges Lord Reed, Lady Rose and Lord Richards said: permission to appeal was refused “because the appeal does not raise an arguable point of law of general public importance which the court should determine at this time”.

From the crowdfunding page:

The QC leading our case has suggested

• there is a 35% chance that a Supreme Court hearing will be granted
• the Supreme Court case stands a 55% chance of success
• the judges were wrong on the point of law and its cases like this that the Supreme Court look at

 

[Rushy]

Ultra low emissions zone expansion cut London pollutants by up to 26% – study

Findings of lower diesel and PM2.5 emissions may fortify mayor as he extends scheme across whole city

www.theguardian.com

26% seems pretty good.

 

[edcraw]

Vocal Onesie praising a historic LTN here. Also bizarre that he’s only just discovered Roupell St despite working round the corner.

 

[liquidindian]

Also bizarre that he’s only just discovered Roupell St despite working round the corner.

That'll happen when you've never really cycled before but then suddenly do it all the time to prove some unclear point.

 

[Jesterburger]

Vocal Onesie praising a historic LTN here. Also bizarre that he’s only just discovered Roupell St despite working round the corner.

It was only ever a partial historic LTN - it's fully calm now thanks to the 2020 Cornwall Road LTN that was instituted with zero fuss around the same time as Railton 7 oval

 

[nick]

Radio 4 "antisocial" Friday 17/2 12.45.
discussing the quality of the data in respect of LTNs, FWIW

ETA some interesting stuff on quality of the data ("its variable, and Lambeth's isn't great"), but then they let a pro and an anti have their say. Quickly descended into the usual, resulting in accusations of "I've been threatened by your side more than you have bene threatened by mine". This was not edifying

 

[BusLanes]

Just was walking down a street with a LTN exit and saw for the first time in a long time someone gunning through on a car, then through past the cameras with not a care in the world.

Given how many signs this exit had I can't see how they missed it so I guess they don't care.

 

[Crispy]

Just was walking down a street with a LTN exit and saw for the first time in a long time someone gunning through on a car, then through past the cameras with not a care in the world.

Given how many signs this exit had I can't see how they missed it so I guess they don't care.

Probably on cloned plates.

 

[edcraw]

Radio 4 "antisocial" Friday 17/2 12.45.
discussing the quality of the data in respect of LTNs, FWIW

ETA some interesting stuff on quality of the data ("its variable, and Lambeth's isn't great"), but then they let a pro and an anti have their say. Quickly descended into the usual, resulting in accusations of "I've been threatened by your side more than you have bene threatened by mine". This was not edifying

Interesting that the anti-LTN guy they chose is an anti-vaxxer… seems to be pretty much all of them these days though.

Still can’t see what’s wrong with not wanting all our roads to be over run with cars which is all this boils down to.

 

[Cat Fan]

Just was walking down a street with a LTN exit and saw for the first time in a long time someone gunning through on a car, then through past the cameras with not a care in the world.

Given how many signs this exit had I can't see how they missed it so I guess they don't care.

We recently saw a van driving through with the passenger making a rude gesture at the camera as they went

 

[BusLanes]

Well I guess if they're not worried about being caught