Cat Fan
Cats and stats
That is a very fun thought experiment, I like it.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
I don't think the solution lies in tarmacking over gardens and making roads even wider!
*I'm aware you're not being serious here, btw
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Hmm can't find it now, but if you go on their feed most of the posts are anti pollution, including being pro road charging and complaining about the extra inequality, roads inside Dulwich LTN having high car ownership, lots of out of towners coming in for school run, etc. Etc.
Nothing about the fundamental rights of drivers, freedom and all the usual looney stuff
teuchter
je suis teuchter
That's strange isn't it. You'd think that they'd make such information readily accessible. I've never been able to find it either.
I wonder why?
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
I have no idea if their sources are accurate, but they do bandy about a few facts and figures in support of their stance. Make of these what you will.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
No I'm dead serious. These roads were designed "when it was all fields round here" and the houses were trying to look like compressed versions of big houses sitting in a plot of private land. But now many of them are subdivided into flats, and the road is a busy arterial route. In Amsterdam this is exactly how the busy arterial roads are laid out (although often the public transport runs in the center lanes when it's trams instead of buses).
The amount of hard landscaping is identical, it's just that all the useless bits in front of the buildings could be put to public use.
The earlier example of Coldharbour Lane is even more egregious. It's a major orbital route and over half the space between buildings is useless. So much of London was laid out this way, it's easy to think that it's normal and good. Return that useless private land to the public realm. Seize front gardens now.
editor
hiraethified
I'd rather see private gardens with trees'n'flowers'n'shit that a never ending sea of asphalt, thanks.
Burt if it's already been paved over for their shitty cars, then it should be turned into a public garden. By law.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
We started out with your statement that these groups had perfectly legitimate reasons to be unhappy with the effects of LTNs, for example that "illegal" levels of air pollution are being experienced at schools.
And on questioning we've arrived at "they do bandy about a few facts and figures in support of their stance".
Well, that's how these groups operate, they'll throw a few numbers about on twitter, with no link to the original source. We have no idea whether these figures are "facts" nor do we know if they are cherry-picked or presented with significant context omitted.
Their strategy seems to have worked on you - you clearly haven't checked out their claims, which you seem happy to accept at face value and to repeat on here.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Nonsense, I don't take any of this stuff at face value. You were asking for some examples of what they post, so I provided.
I believe things are more nuanced and messy than LTNs being universally good for everyone.
It's important to think about how they can be implemented in a way that leaves as few people behind and creates as little inequality as possible.
I can understand why you are being grumpy and I empathise. Twitter is a cesspool of stupid opinions. But you did ask.
liquidindian
Hello
Not as many as there was, and fewer all the time.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
These groups are disingenuous liars - they campaigned for the timed restrictions to be shortened, and then claim that the increased traffic as a result is a sign that the scheme is failing..
This looks like a fuller picture on traffic across roads in the area - note the antis claim EDG has increased - the section by the school hasn't, that's decreased. The bit thats busier is at the Lordship Lane end where there used to be a nasty rat run through a side street to cut off a corner.
Croxted Road has less traffic. There is congestion, but another thing I've not seen any evidence of is that more congested peak hour traffic has resulted in worse pollution that a larger volume moving through.
Both the Lambeth and Southwark schemes have been made permanent - yet they're still asking for them to be removed or weakened. They need to move on from that - they're now campaigning for traffic to be increased on every one of those roads thats shown a reduction. There might well be some people who genuinely want less motor traffic on all roads, but their unholy alliance includes so many petrolheads that they can't talk about any measures that would actually be effective.
Phrases like "It's important to think about how they can be implemented in a way that leaves as few people behind and creates as little inequality as possible." are meaningless unless you can say what you’d do differently and still achieve the same
- because normally when you dig it's "do nothing until I can have a unicorn".
This looks like a fuller picture on traffic across roads in the area - note the antis claim EDG has increased - the section by the school hasn't, that's decreased. The bit thats busier is at the Lordship Lane end where there used to be a nasty rat run through a side street to cut off a corner.
Croxted Road has less traffic. There is congestion, but another thing I've not seen any evidence of is that more congested peak hour traffic has resulted in worse pollution that a larger volume moving through.
Both the Lambeth and Southwark schemes have been made permanent - yet they're still asking for them to be removed or weakened. They need to move on from that - they're now campaigning for traffic to be increased on every one of those roads thats shown a reduction. There might well be some people who genuinely want less motor traffic on all roads, but their unholy alliance includes so many petrolheads that they can't talk about any measures that would actually be effective.
Phrases like "It's important to think about how they can be implemented in a way that leaves as few people behind and creates as little inequality as possible." are meaningless unless you can say what you’d do differently and still achieve the same
- because normally when you dig it's "do nothing until I can have a unicorn".
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thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Here you go. “A better way”. Try working out what the chair of the campaign for better transport would actually do. I can’t. He’s still talking about 20mph as if we’re not a 20mph borough.
Also. I can see the filter outside her shop - you can still drive there if you want. there’s a cost of living crisis. Might there be a far more likely reason a travel agency had falling income?
Also. I can see the filter outside her shop - you can still drive there if you want. there’s a cost of living crisis. Might there be a far more likely reason a travel agency had falling income?
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thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
which clearly didn’t work - as traffic is back up on those roads. Surely need to increase the timed hours?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
They’re still campaigning because they’re NIMBY arseholes.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
There are cabbies on twitter having a meltdown about this because they think every car parking space in London is going to be ripped out for cycle lanes and flowerbedsAwaits the comments section filling up with incandescent rage
New kerbside strategy will transform Lambeth’s streets say residents and campaigners
A new strategy to improve Lambeth’s streets will transform communities and help tackle London’s air quality crisis, according to residents and campaigners. The new “kerbside strategy” launched on 1…www.brixtonbuzz.com
There are cabbies on twitter having a meltdown about this because they think every car parking space in London is going to be ripped out for cycle lanes and flowerbeds
If it’s impossible to park a private car in London, which type of profession who typically lives in the outer boroughs would benefit?
Galaxy brain stuff
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I got this headline sent to me this morning from Sleepless Seatle. A very old fashioned solution we campaigned for in Manchester when I was a student in the 70s. Not a whiff of interest from anyone close to power in the UK
Mind you passing round the Moorlands Estate, as one does (not an LTN or ever likely to be) its conspicuous how parked up it all is. Not a piece of concrete driveway without a car on it! As my old Gran used to say - "Looks at them Jags on Lancaster Avenue! (our local council estate). I doubt most of our car owners would even use a free pass in preference to a drive to the shops.
Mind you passing round the Moorlands Estate, as one does (not an LTN or ever likely to be) its conspicuous how parked up it all is. Not a piece of concrete driveway without a car on it! As my old Gran used to say - "Looks at them Jags on Lancaster Avenue! (our local council estate). I doubt most of our car owners would even use a free pass in preference to a drive to the shops.
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liquidindian
Hello
Moorlands estate doesn’t need an LTN as it was designed pretty much as one no? No through traffic as only exits are to Coldharbour Lane. It also has low car ownership with about 60% of householders not having a car or van.I got this headline sent to me this morning from Sleepless Seatle. A very old fashioned solution we campaigned for in Manchester when I was a student in the 70s. Not a whiff of interest from anyone close to power in the UK
Mind you passing round the Moorlands Estate, as one does (not an LTN or ever likely to be) its conspicuous how parked up it all is. Not a piece of concrete driveway without a car on it! As my old Gran used to say - "Looks at them Jags on Lancaster Avenue! (our local council estate). I doubt most of our car owners would even use a free pass in preference to a drive to the shops.
Evening Brief
Tuesday, January 24, 2023
As we all know - pretty much all housing built after cars become popular has been built to stop through traffic hence the need to stop it on residential roads built before cars.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Responses so far are fully in accord with car industry requirements - don't get rid of cars - just restrict their use.
BTW love the way Raphael House on Coldharbour Lane (also Metropolitan like Moorlands) was rebuilt with car parking on the ground floor to replace a furniture store.
BTW love the way Raphael House on Coldharbour Lane (also Metropolitan like Moorlands) was rebuilt with car parking on the ground floor to replace a furniture store.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
It doesn’t work. You need to make owning and using a car more difficult (parking and road restrictions) and expensive as well as making alternatives better and cheaper. Carrots without sticks are not effective (it’s what we’ve done for the last 30 years - please cycle. Please don’t drive.)I got this headline sent to me this morning from Sleepless Seatle. A very old fashioned solution we campaigned for in Manchester when I was a student in the 70s. Not a whiff of interest from anyone close to power in the UK
Mind you passing round the Moorlands Estate, as one does (not an LTN or ever likely to be) its conspicuous how parked up it all is. Not a piece of concrete driveway without a car on it! As my old Gran used to say - "Looks at them Jags on Lancaster Avenue! (our local council estate). I doubt most of our car owners would even use a free pass in preference to a drive to the shops.
Evening Brief
Tuesday, January 24, 2023
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Reposted from another thread
Looks like Lib Dem Oxford is experimenting with traffic cameras to control traffic a la LTN but have run into trouble with the Tory Press and QAnon/Twitterati.
I am sorry not to have taken my camera when I went to a concert in Lib dem Surbiton on Saturday.
I used to work there in the 1980s - and was amazed to see how the station has now been restored to art deco standards - at least on the outside.
Not only that the five-way traffic junction outside the station grounds has NO TRAFFIC LIGHTS.
And there are "give away to pedestrians" marking on the roads at the junction - which actually work!
How Democratic - naturally free flowing traffic and pedestrians without having to wait a Stalinist Lambeth/Southwark style 10 minutes for the lights before you can cross the road at a busy junction.
Looks like Lib Dem Oxford is experimenting with traffic cameras to control traffic a la LTN but have run into trouble with the Tory Press and QAnon/Twitterati.
I am sorry not to have taken my camera when I went to a concert in Lib dem Surbiton on Saturday.
I used to work there in the 1980s - and was amazed to see how the station has now been restored to art deco standards - at least on the outside.
Not only that the five-way traffic junction outside the station grounds has NO TRAFFIC LIGHTS.
And there are "give away to pedestrians" marking on the roads at the junction - which actually work!
How Democratic - naturally free flowing traffic and pedestrians without having to wait a Stalinist Lambeth/Southwark style 10 minutes for the lights before you can cross the road at a busy junction.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
How would you suggest taking peoples cars away? Doesn’t it make sense to make it so difficult and expensive to own people decide it’s not worth it? Note that the more recent blocks on the road were built without parking and no permits for residents- bemoaning old crap policy is a bit pointlessResponses so far are fully in accord with car industry requirements - don't get rid of cars - just restrict their use.
BTW love the way Raphael House on Coldharbour Lane (also Metropolitan like Moorlands) was rebuilt with car parking on the ground floor to replace a furniture store.
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liquidindian
Hello
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
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