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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

Does anyone know if Lambeth have an ongoing department devoted to LTNs who the public can speak to directly or if it’s just under transport? Another motorbike mounted the pavement at considerable speed to get round our local entrance yesterday and I’m sick of it. Not to the point of grassing up individuals but there needs to be a separate camera pointing at the pavement really, and bigger consequences to match the potential risks.
 
Cat Fan said:
"Clean air for Croxted too" for example or "Clean air for all Dulwich", it's not a fringe political group, it's almost everyone on the affected roads,
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Those are Twitter accounts run by (anonymous) individuals as far as I can see - whoever they might claim to speak for.

If a group want to make a claim to be representative it needs to be open about
Tony Benn’s five questions -

• What power have you got?
• Where did you get it from?
• In whose interests do you use it?
• To whom are you accountable?
• How do we get rid of you?
 
thebackrow said:
Does anyone know if Lambeth have an ongoing department devoted to LTNs who the public can speak to directly or if it’s just under transport?


lowtrafficneighbourhoods@lambeth.gov.uk is still on the commonplace sites for contact.

Which filter is the issue?
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Upper Tulse Hill

Thank you, I’ll email them later today. Tbf I wouldn’t care if they wheeled or even trundled them over the pavement, it’s just the speed they do it at :(
 
Cat Fan said:
It's clear to me that like any meaningful intervention it's going to make things worse for some roads. "Clean air for Croxted too" for example or "Clean air for all Dulwich", it's not a fringe political group, it's almost everyone on the affected roads, and they are generally people who are pro environmental action.

LTNs are not the best stick because they only cause at worst mild inconvenience for drivers. ULEZ is far more effective I think.
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Oh yeah, loads of houses on Croxted have one or two cars, maybe one an SUV - and they live on an A-road, what do they expect?.

The tories ran on an explicitly anti-ltn ticket and got nothing. They are a fringe group.
 
sleaterkinney said:
Oh yeah, loads of houses on Croxted have one or two cars, maybe one an SUV - and they live on an A-road, what do they expect?.

The tories ran on an explicitly anti-ltn ticket and got nothing. They are a fringe group.
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So do all the houses around there. What's your point? All I'm saying is there are a lot of people affected who are upset about it. LTNs benefit a majority but they don't benefit everyone.

The antis are of course a minority and they may not want to switch to voting Tory anyway, so I don't think local election results mean anything tbh. Democracy has a tendency to bulldoze minorities to benefit the majority.
 
Agent Sparrow said:
Does anyone know if Lambeth have an ongoing department devoted to LTNs who the public can speak to directly or if it’s just under transport? Another motorbike mounted the pavement at considerable speed to get round our local entrance yesterday and I’m sick of it. Not to the point of grassing up individuals but there needs to be a separate camera pointing at the pavement really, and bigger consequences to match the potential risks.
Click to expand...
Imo it’s absolutely fine to grass up individuals if they’re driving/riding vehicles on the pavement at speed. Get a photo/video and report it here within 7 days of the incident:

 
Cat Fan said:
So do all the houses around there. What's your point? All I'm saying is there are a lot of people affected who are upset about it. LTNs benefit a majority but they don't benefit everyone.

The antis are of course a minority and they may not want to switch to voting Tory anyway, so I don't think local election results mean anything tbh. Democracy has a tendency to bulldoze minorities to benefit the majority.
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It’s not that, it’s just that people get used to being able to drive around where and when they like and when it’s taken away they get all upset. It’s not being taken away of course, they just have to drive a longer way around, and most reasonable people aren’t bothered by this so you’re left with the rest and the cranks who will complain about anything.
 
sleaterkinney said:
It’s not that, it’s just that people get used to being able to drive around where and when they like and when it’s taken away they get all upset. It’s not being taken away of course, they just have to drive a longer way around, and most reasonable people aren’t bothered by this so you’re left with the rest and the cranks who will complain about anything.
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If you find them on Twitter, it's not journey times they're upset about, it's the increased traffic/pollution on the roads they live on. Hence the "clean air" in their name
 
sleaterkinney said:
It’s not that, it’s just that people get used to being able to drive around where and when they like and when it’s taken away they get all upset. It’s not being taken away of course, they just have to drive a longer way around, and most reasonable people aren’t bothered by this so you’re left with the rest and the cranks who will complain about anything.
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I still remember (guessing early 90's) when they put barriers / one way bits on Hayter Road and (possibly before that) stopped the drivable link between Branksome Road and Lyham Rd. Made it much more inconvenient to drive to/from my Sister's on Branksome to the top of the hill.
I was mildly vexed by having to go via Acre Lane or whatever.
Somehow, however, the world continued to turn and I survived. Now I find it better to cycle or bus into Brixton Central than drive.
So those measures, and now LTNs, are prompting better behaviours.
This is desirable
 
Winot said:
If they cared that much about clean air they would drive less.
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Again, from reading some recent posts on the Croxted one, it's mostly people upset about the pollution while they walk their kids to school every day. And about illegal air pollution limits being breached at schools (many of which are on the boundary roads).

But ok, sure, you go on believing that everyone who opposes LTNs drives a gas guzzling 4x4 up and down all day 🙄
 
Funnily enough, I barely remember any complaints about air pollution before LTNs arrived. Those of us who did complain got called cranks and lycra-clad hippies. I think it’s good many people are now concerned about air quality, even if some of this concern comes from people who aren’t willing to drive less.

Two problems with Croxted as i see it:

1) huge number of kids being driven to private schools in the area, which naturally have a wider catchment area;

2) Croxted is part of a massive “funnel” of traffic which includes Norwood Road, Dulwich Road & Half Moon Lane, all leading traffic to the massive bottleneck of the Herne Hill railway bridge.

I don’t think there’s any solution to this other than people driving less.
 
Brixton Hatter said:
Funnily enough, I barely remember any complaints about air pollution before LTNs arrived. Those of us who did complain got called cranks and lycra-clad hippies. I think it’s good many people are now concerned about air quality, even if some of this concern comes from people who aren’t willing to drive less.

Two problems with Croxted as i see it:

1) huge number of kids being driven to private schools in the area, which naturally have a wider catchment area;

2) Croxted is part of a massive “funnel” of traffic which includes Norwood Road, Dulwich Road & Half Moon Lane, all leading traffic to the massive bottleneck of the Herne Hill railway bridge.

I don’t think there’s any solution to this other than people driving less.
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I it does rather ring hollow when the loudest opponents of LTNs tend to also oppose ULEZ so I think some scepticism is natural.
 
Cat Fan said:
And about illegal air pollution limits being breached at schools (many of which are on the boundary roads).
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and presumably many of which are not. I keep seeing this vague claim made but I've never seen anyone produce evidence that shows a school where pollution on a road was previously below legal limits and where it has increased above after an LTN was put in place. The recent posts on here did start around whether an academic study was sufficiently rigorous or data was complete enough. Maybe before repeating these lies/myths you could do even the most basic checking of them?

List of schools where pollution exceeds legal limits

www.london.gov.uk www.london.gov.uk

Shows one school in Lambeth and one in Southwark where pollution is above legal limits but both those schools were above legal limits in 2019 so this isn't as a result of any LTNs.

In fact:

Schools with air pollution exceeding legal limits

www.london.gov.uk www.london.gov.uk
says "in 2016 (the latest available modelled year), over 450 state primary and secondary schools were located in areas that exceeded the legal limit for nitrogen dioxide. Modelling shows that with the Mayor’s policies this will reduce to zero in 2025".

Where were these concerned Croxted Road parents in 2016 when pollution levels really were illegal at a lot of London Schools? Where were they in 2019? Strangely they've only become concerned when the LTN was introduced at a time when all the measurements and trends show that pollution in London is improving. Are they cheering on Lambeth's kerbside strategy or are they strangely quiet on that? Are they calling for removal of parking and bus lanes on Croxted? Or is their only request for roads to be opened up for people to drive down?
 
Last edited:
Indeed, if the pavement ran right up to the building line, ignoring the vestigal front gardens that are remnants of Victorian town planning no longer fit for purpose, Croxted Road would be wide enough for a 2m pavement, 1.5m bike lane, 3.2m bus lane and 3m general lane in each direction, with space left over for separating kerbs, and regular wider spots for bus stops, parking bays etc.

Sieze Front Gardens For The People Now!

frontgardensbelongtothepeople.jpg
 
However, we do not live in a world where private property will be appropriated for the People's Bus Lane any time soon.
Even removing one lane of parking wouldn't be enough for a bus lane. You'd need to remove both sides (or steal 0.5m of pavement from both sides)
 
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