Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
I like how the Tory says they'll need to work out how to earn another £20m a year if they remove them but has no idea how!!
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Which is better than the Dulwich Village Tories who plan to fund public transport using the fine income from the cameras they say they will remove.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
Meanwhile in Soho....
A lot of replies to this seem basically to be saying that motor traffic is needed to displace outdoor tables which caused noise problems.
There's obviously an argument to be had about whether the noise that comes from outdoors eating/drinking is inappropriate for somewhere like Soho. But even if you agree it's a problem - is there a worse way to solve it, than by using motor vehicles to keep people off the street?
A lot of replies to this seem basically to be saying that motor traffic is needed to displace outdoor tables which caused noise problems.
There's obviously an argument to be had about whether the noise that comes from outdoors eating/drinking is inappropriate for somewhere like Soho. But even if you agree it's a problem - is there a worse way to solve it, than by using motor vehicles to keep people off the street?
Indeed - there was an issue with noise but could be easily solved by stopping outside music & limiting outside tables. There’s never been a problem where the solution is more cars!
liquidindian
Hello
If I understand correctly then the case may go to the Supreme Court, but if this application to stay fails it may be fighting against a traffic order that's no longer in place. So I guess that means there's a small chance that the appeal wins but it won't matter because it would be asking the council to retake a decision it has no interest in taking again.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
On local elections and LTNs:
www.theguardian.com
Will local elections put the brakes on low-traffic neighbourhood schemes?
Wider rollout of LTNs has prompted anguished debate, with one former party member standing against Labour over the issue
I think in legal speak it means to wait for something else before it is decided upon. In this case its probably because the permanent traffic orders have to be challenged within a specific timeframe so One Lambeth want to lodge their challenge but then stay it until they find out about Supreme Court bid. I might be wrong though but looking at their FB group it looks that way.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
“From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary Englishstay an order/ruling/execution etclaw if a judge stays an order, ruling etc, they stop a particular decision from being used or a particular action from happening”
so I guess they want to stop the traffic orders taking permanent effect (so that they can try to block them). which is odd, because I thought the point of law they’d appealed on was about process/decisions when the temp orders were made - whether psed could be considered on a rolling basis.
Now the perm orders were made with the benefit of evidence from the trial so surely that appeal would not affect them
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Are any of the onesies standing for election to get rid of ltns by democratic means rather than spurious lawsuits?.
They’re all Tories now! Assume they’ll spin even the slightest uptick in their votes as a huge vote against LTNs.
Here’s their ‘analysis’ of Streatham Hill East. Not sure why they think the Lib Dems are opposed to them though.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
So the new Streatham East ward seems to be old Streatham Hill east of the A23 plus a bit of what was Wells.
Assembly member vote from May (which is probably the most 'neutral' indication of politics) was 48% Labour, 22% Green, 15% Tory, 12% Libdem. Greens were up vs 2016 council elections, every one else down (labour by c1%, tory down by 2%)
teuchter
je suis teuchter
At various points the Lambeth Greens seem to have been a bit quiet about the LTN issue - as if hedging their bets on what way opinion was going.
But having just looked at their current "pledges" they seem to be fairy unambiguous -
lambeth.greenparty.org.uk
But having just looked at their current "pledges" they seem to be fairy unambiguous -
Our Pledges - Lambeth Green Party
Our Green Councillors are the official opposition on Labour-led Lambeth Council. They work tirelessly all year round for a safer, fairer, greener community for us all. We achieve results and hold the Labour administration to account, speaking up on scrutiny committees and at Full Council...
lambeth.greenparty.org.uk
I suppose it is easier now the issue is settling down. Different when the chips are down.At various points the Lambeth Greens seem to have been a bit quiet about the LTN issue - as if hedging their bets on what way opinion was going.
But having just looked at their current "pledges" they seem to be fairy unambiguous -
Our Pledges - Lambeth Green Party
Our Green Councillors are the official opposition on Labour-led Lambeth Council. They work tirelessly all year round for a safer, fairer, greener community for us all. We achieve results and hold the Labour administration to account, speaking up on scrutiny committees and at Full Council...
Torpid Scorpion
Basket case
I would love to vote green in this election because of the climate crisis and because of the undemocratic nature of progress and the cabinet system, but fuck me if I am going to play into the car nuts / tory cunts’ plans to spin this so I will be holding my nose and voting labour.
This is where, again I think the one campaign show either naivety or bad judgment. If they’d used the money raised to date to fund several single issue candidates in some of these wards, it would have forced the issue to be talked about on the doorsteps and might have persuaded voters who have previously voted Labour to vote for them. It’s a hell of a step for a traditional Labour voter to vote conservative, they are more likely to not vote. I think Tim Briggs has tried to spin it to vote Tory, wrong move.
editor
hiraethified
I can't vote for Lambeth Labour any more.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
I think the vast majority of residents in Streatham Hill East will be pro LTN, so I will be surprised if Tories can increase their vote share significantly. They will certainly be far short of Labour and probably short of Greens as well.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Also let's face it, Boris Johnson's party is not exactly basking in popularity right now, so I would say it's safe to vote for who you want to win rather than voting tactically.
I'd personally love to see more Green councillors to help hold the Labour administration to account on their climate pledges.
As a measure of how low the Tories are in the polls right now there's an article in the Guardian suggesting they might lose Wandsworth.
I'd personally love to see more Green councillors to help hold the Labour administration to account on their climate pledges.
As a measure of how low the Tories are in the polls right now there's an article in the Guardian suggesting they might lose Wandsworth.
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BigTom
Well-Known Member
On local elections and LTNs:
Will local elections put the brakes on low-traffic neighbourhood schemes?
Wider rollout of LTNs has prompted anguished debate, with one former party member standing against Labour over the issue
My local election (Kings Heath in Birmingham) is the funniest I've seen in local politics, with the anti-LTN vote being split between the tories, lib dems, Worker's Revolutionary Party (Galloway's party) and a local loon who is standing as an independent and seems to have thought that because he was the admin of an anti-LTN facebook group with 2000 members (of which at least two were him, probably more) he would get a lot of votes. Then he opens his mouth on facebook, it's almost amazing how bad he is at communication. This is today's post for St George's day...
Various people have been pointing out that he's got the wrong flag.
A vote for Lambeth Labour is a vote for social cleansing through estate 'regeneration'.
Of course Lambeth have lost my initial support on LTNs too. Their one filter policy for people with blue badges is the most mean spirited reasonable adjustment I've ever come across. They've been forced to concede that they've not been fair to people with disabilities so have given the smallest, most insignificant and tokenistic access they could think of.
Finding it difficult to choose a party to vote for based on LTNs or anything, easier to choose a party not to vote for.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I initially thought, why not just give blue badge holders an exemption for all filters, because it wouldn't amount to a large number of extra vehicles.
However, the policy they have gone with allows a blue badge holder to nominate two cars - which can be their own, plus one owned by a carer. That looks to me like a reasonably sensible attempt to address the criticisms that thought should be given to carers and the journeys they need to make.
That significantly increases the number of exempted cars and also the number of those cars which would be taking advantage of a blanket exemption while on business that isn't related to the caring role.
Remembering (as sometimes seems to get forgotten) that the restrictions don't remove anyone's access to anywhere, but just make some journeys a bit longer, granting a single filter exemption ought really to address a large proportion of journeys to and from a particular location. That is, whenever someone complains legitimately that a journey that used to take 5 minutes now takes 15, the vast majority of those scenarios could be dealt with by removing a single filter close to the start/finish point.
But really it should be Lambeth defending the details of their chosen approach not me. I think they could do with providing a bit more explanation of why they have chosen what they have chosen.
However, the policy they have gone with allows a blue badge holder to nominate two cars - which can be their own, plus one owned by a carer. That looks to me like a reasonably sensible attempt to address the criticisms that thought should be given to carers and the journeys they need to make.
That significantly increases the number of exempted cars and also the number of those cars which would be taking advantage of a blanket exemption while on business that isn't related to the caring role.
Remembering (as sometimes seems to get forgotten) that the restrictions don't remove anyone's access to anywhere, but just make some journeys a bit longer, granting a single filter exemption ought really to address a large proportion of journeys to and from a particular location. That is, whenever someone complains legitimately that a journey that used to take 5 minutes now takes 15, the vast majority of those scenarios could be dealt with by removing a single filter close to the start/finish point.
But really it should be Lambeth defending the details of their chosen approach not me. I think they could do with providing a bit more explanation of why they have chosen what they have chosen.
There are 2.3 million blue badges in the U.K. vs 32.5m cars - so a general exemption would mean approx 7% of cars would be exempt from all LTNs.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Saw someone had done the sums on this today. TfL fares income was £4.9bn pre-pandemic which, with 3.4m London households, means you'd need to find £1500 per household per year. And of course making it free would create a load more demand and with it cost (or just overcrowding), so probably more than that.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Not sure that the number of London households is the right number to look at here. I would look at the number of regular commuters who use TFL services, plus the number of regular tourists.
Both numbers went way down during the worst of the pandemic but are presumably going to recover over time. Crossrail opening soon will also be a good fare earner.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
You’ve missed the point. Was suggested public transport should be free. £1500 is what it would add to council tax bills each year to cover the cost.
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