Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Not a Vet]

Brixton water lane is the same, really busy for a really short while to coincide with the school run, particularly if it’s raining because we all know, people melt when it rains

 

[cuppa tee]

As was the case pre-pandemic. There was a big drop in traffic at peak time the last time I was on the No 3, when the private schools were apparently off, but before the rest of the schools. Not so many videos from the Croxted Road accounts for the last wee while for some reason, and the fact that kids being driven to posh schools seems to be causing a lot of congestion hasn't been picked up by those who bang on about "social injustice", oddly.

...that is a great bit of anecdata there my friend, it would be interesting to know the reality because my personal experience living in north Brixton tells me that the people who’d be making that trip would often be the same ones who’d be gagging to live inside an ltn....

 

[Gramsci]

That youth council panel was really strong. Made Cllr Briggs look a little bit more out of date and irrelevant to his constituents.

The OL thing - one of them was a lawyer, but unlike the youth panel they couldn’t stick to time or hadn’t rehearsed what their key messages were. Massive missed opportunity for them.

On "Shakespeare was a racist".

I didn't really get what Cllrs Briggs was going on about. Perhaps to late at night for me.

Listening to the Youth Council I was reminded of film of the great Caribbean Marxist CLR James disagreeing with some younger Black radicals on the this exact issue years ago.

Looked this up and here is what I think is fair summary of why CLR James did think Shakespeare and other great European writers were relevant. Even if it is Unherd which appears to be offshoot of Furedi. The title of the article is unnessarily provacative. The article does try to give fair summary of his thought imo.

Channel Four did series of lecture by him one of which was about Shakespeare. Frustratingly they don't seem to be available.

V2_ Lab for the Unstable Media

V2_ is an interdisciplinary center for art and technology in Rotterdam (the Netherlands).

v2.nl

CLR James rejected the posturing of identity politics

He railed against the superficial nonsense that masquerades as 'anti-racism'

unherd.com

So imo there is a debate to be had about Shakespeare and the relevance of others in the European canon.

For him he did not reject the European Canon. I read his great work the Black Jacobins years ago. Think I should give it a re read. The slaves of Haiti saw that the ideals of the French Revolution should apply to them. For James the European Enlightenment was unfinished universal project.

 

[edcraw]

Lots of OneLambeth people seem to be claiming that their deputation wasn’t removed from council and that it was LTN supporters that were heckling, also claims that they were being censored!?

Quite Trumpian to try and claim something when there’s freely available evidence against it and would make you question other claims that they make.

 

[snowy_again]

On "Shakespeare was a racist".

I didn't really get what Cllrs Briggs was going on about. Perhaps to late at night for me.

Listening to the Youth Council I was reminded of film of the great Caribbean Marxist CLR James disagreeing with some younger Black radicals on the this exact issue years

I don’t think he did either, but he wasn’t going be spoken to by articulate young people so had to contradict one of them just as a point of principle - I suspect on racism as it fits his usual talking points and he would have been afraid to talk about period poverty.

Will take a read through those links, thanks.

 

[Brian Taylor]

On "Shakespeare was a racist".

I didn't really get what Cllrs Briggs was going on about. Perhaps to late at night for me.

Listening to the Youth Council I was reminded of film of the great Caribbean Marxist CLR James disagreeing with some younger Black radicals on the this exact issue years ago.

Looked this up and here is what I think is fair summary of why CLR James did think Shakespeare and other great European writers were relevant. Even if it is Unherd which appears to be offshoot of Furedi. The title of the article is unnessarily provacative. The article does try to give fair summary of his thought imo.

Channel Four did series of lecture by him one of which was about Shakespeare. Frustratingly they don't seem to be available.

V2_ Lab for the Unstable Media

V2_ is an interdisciplinary center for art and technology in Rotterdam (the Netherlands).

v2.nl

CLR James rejected the posturing of identity politics

He railed against the superficial nonsense that masquerades as 'anti-racism'

unherd.com

So imo there is a debate to be had about Shakespeare and the relevance of others in the European canon.

For him he did not reject the European Canon. I read his great work the Black Jacobins years ago. Think I should give it a re read. The slaves of Haiti saw that the ideals of the French Revolution should apply to them. For James the European Enlightenment was unfinished universal project.

Thanks for the links.

Here's one that someone sent me a while back

Every Cook Can Govern by C L R James

www.marxists.org

 

[snowy_again]

...that is a great bit of anecdata there my friend, it would be interesting to know the reality because my personal experience living in north Brixton tells me that the people who’d be making that trip would often be the same ones who’d be gagging to live inside an ltn....

Sorry for linking to twitter but x2 Southwark councillors* saying that TFL data shows a reduction in traffic numbers / volume on croxted road with jams caused by TfL tinkering with the traffic lights to manage the Herne Hill railway works;



*theyre pro LTN - so a caveat there.

 

[teuchter]

Impacts of 2020 Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in London on Road Traffic Injuries | Published in Findings

By Anna Goodman, Jamie Furlong & 3 more. Injuries inside Low Traffic Neighbourhoods halved relative to the rest of London.

findingspress.org

Abstract​

We assessed the impacts of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) implemented in 2020 on road traffic injuries. We used police data from October-December 2018/2019 (pre) compared with the same period in 2020 (post). We found absolute numbers of injuries inside LTNs halved relative to the rest of London (ratio 0.51, p<0.001). Considering changes in background travel patterns, our results indicate substantial reductions in pedestrian injury risk. Risks to other road users may also have fallen, but by a more modest amount. We found no evidence of changes in injury numbers or risk on LTN boundary roads.

 

[alex_]

This is going to make people cross

Low-traffic schemes halve number of road injuries, study shows

Research on police data for London neighbourhoods finds greatest reduction in injury rates among pedestrians and people in cars

www.theguardian.com

 

[liquidindian]

TFL data shows a reduction in traffic numbers / volume on croxted road with jams caused by TfL tinkering with the traffic lights to manage the Herne Hill railway works;

The problem now is that you have people who have been furious for months at the wrong thing, and good luck trying to change that.

 

[snowy_again]

The claimant in the court case is currently trying to justify OL’s Holocaust comments.

 

[edcraw]

The claimant in the court case is currently trying to justify OL’s Holocaust comments.

One of the people that regularly plugs the fundraiser on Nextdoor said “it wasn’t language he would use”…

 

[liquidindian]

...that is a great bit of anecdata there my friend, it would be interesting to know the reality because my personal experience living in north Brixton tells me that the people who’d be making that trip would often be the same ones who’d be gagging to live inside an ltn....

I've tried to parse this a few times. I don't really get it because I use one LTN for a cycle route and another as a walking route, as do lots of others. But even when I was school age I couldn't exactly turn up for class at Dollar Academy because it existed and had been paid for. You don't have to live in an LTN to benefit from one.

 

[chowce5382]

I've tried to parse this a few times. I don't really get it because I use one LTN for a cycle route and another as a walking route, as do lots of others. But even when I was school age I couldn't exactly turn up for class at Dollar Academy because it existed and had been paid for. You don't have to live in an LTN to benefit from one.

But it helps if you do according to recent research

 

[liquidindian]

But it helps if you do according to recent research

You mean fewer people are being killed and injured in LTNs? I'm not sure that giving cars fewer opportunities to maim people means that they maim fewer people is a compelling argument against LTNs, might want to workshop that one a bit.

 

[liquidindian]

"We looked into these new fangled NO ANKLE-HEIGHT SPINNING BLADE ZONES and it turned out more people have their feet attached in these areas than outside, so we're campaigning for their removal. Everyone should have an equal chance of having their feet ripped off by spinning blades, no exceptions."

 

[chowce5382]

You mean fewer people are being killed and injured in LTNs? I'm not sure that giving cars fewer opportunities to maim people means that they maim fewer people is a compelling argument against LTNs, might want to workshop that one a bit.

Just saying that the recent research was LTN focussed.

 

[chowce5382]

"We looked into these new fangled NO ANKLE-HEIGHT SPINNING BLADE ZONES and it turned out more people have their feet attached in these areas than outside, so we're campaigning for their removal. Everyone should have an equal chance of having their feet ripped off by spinning blades, no exceptions."

On the sauce?

 

[edcraw]

Just saying that the recent research was LTN focussed.

The research on LTNs was LTN focussed?

 

[chowce5382]

The research on LTNs was LTN focussed?

Yup. Focussed on what happens inside LTNs.

 

[liquidindian]

"The research, which examined police data on casualties for 72 low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) put in place in London between March and September last year, also showed no apparent increase in danger on roads at their outer boundaries."

 

[chowce5382]

"The research, which examined police data on casualties for 72 low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) put in place in London between March and September last year, also showed no apparent increase in danger on roads at their outer boundaries."

Yup, but not all boundary roads. Eg in Lee Green 3 of 4 boundary roads weren’t included in the data and that’s not the only strain London. I’m all for data and keen to get as much as we can but will never understand why we don’t just do a comprehensive study. It’s a bit like the car counters which were put next to the planter near where I am. Let’s just do this properly. Not much to ask. It’s a bit like the council saying they are consulting disabled groups but only asking cycling focused charities. This is probably my main beef with LTNs. If they are going to be permanent, let’s make sure it’s done on proper data

 

[chowce5382]

"The research, which examined police data on casualties for 72 low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) put in place in London between March and September last year, also showed no apparent increase in danger on roads at their outer boundaries."

Sobered up now?

 

[liquidindian]

The data and research is always just short of being convincing, isn't it? Oh, if only the researchers had looked into these other things, if only they'd gathered this extra data, then we might be convinced. Tomorrow we go back to comparing filtered roads to the Holocaust, but today we are reasonable people, chipping away at the edges of some research and declaring it Not Quite Enough, Sorry.

 

[chowce5382]

The data and research is always just short of being convincing, isn't it? Oh, if only the researchers had looked into these other things, if only they'd gathered this extra data, then we might be convinced. Tomorrow we go back to comparing filtered roads to the Holocaust, but today we are reasonable people, chipping away at the edges of some research and declaring it Not Quite Enough, Sorry.

No, just always surprised that they miss boundary roads from the data set.

 

[chowce5382]

The data and research is always just short of being convincing, isn't it? Oh, if only the researchers had looked into these other things, if only they'd gathered this extra data, then we might be convinced. Tomorrow we go back to comparing filtered roads to the Holocaust, but today we are reasonable people, chipping away at the edges of some research and declaring it Not Quite Enough, Sorry.

Obviously still pissed

 

[liquidindian]

Obviously still pissed

Absolutely hammered. I almost retweeted a ton of transphobes and claimed I was receiving threats by twitter DM. But I wasn't quite that far gone.

 

[chowce5382]

Absolutely hammered. I almost retweeted a ton of transphobes and claimed I was receiving threats by twitter DM. But I wasn't quite that far gone.

Nice reply. No answer to the question though. Classic from you

 

[liquidindian]

What's the question? Why didn't the research do everything you need it to be convinced? I'd say it's because they're not funded with infinite money and blessed with infinite time to produce the all-encompassing uber-research it would take for you to go "hmm, maybe".

 

[thebackrow]

Just saying that the recent research was LTN focussed.

We aggregated the point locations of all injuries into three mutually-exclusive groups:

1. Injuries inside the LTN, defined as injuries at least 25m inside the LTN boundary.
2. Injuries on LTN boundary roads, defined being located less than 25m from an LTN boundary road.
3. All other injuries elsewhere in London (our comparison group).

Is your complaint that you think they’ve somehow missed one or two specific boundary roads snd that the injury stats on those are so dire they’re going to change the London wide aggregates? That sounds…unlikely.