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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

“says a former Labour leader of Ealing council”.
I don’t know the politics there but this sounds like the former leader doesn’t think they should have been removed and is making the point to his populist successors that their removal approach is likely to backfire at the ballot box
 

From that -
He narrowly survived a vote of no confidence in September last year amid concerns over his handling of the introduction of new Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) during the coronavirus pandemic.

Cllr Mason was previously Ealing’s cabinet member for housing, planning and transformation, but had resigned from the cabinet after the no-confidence vote following huge opposition to the LTNs.

and from the Guardian today
Now, we’ve had the biggest imaginable consultation on these LTNs: we’ve had an election. At the London mayoral election last month, the cycle schemes were by far the biggest issue in the five main wards of Ealing they covered – Acton Central, Ealing Common, Elthorne, Northfield and Walpole. The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats blitzed the area, telling people that a vote for them would stop the LTNs.
...
But it turns out they’re not “unpopular” at all. Not even really all that “controversial”, and certainly not the vote magnet our opponents hoped. In Ealing as a whole, the Tory vote did go up compared with the previous election, by 0.64 percentage points. But in the five Ealing LTN wards as a whole, the Tories went down. The Lib Dems fell, too.
 
a majority of Londoners support LTNs

Pretty sure the majority of londoners have no idea what an LTN is and stats are easily games with non-specific questions which a positive answer is assumed 'oh yes they must be for LTNs'

What happens when you look at stats of people who are consulted? Ppl who live in or around an LTN area and know what they are??:


Dominic Penna
29 May 2021 • 7:00pm
An estimated 5,000 residents took to the streets of Ealing last month in protest against the increasing number of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods
Nearly three quarters of people who have been consulted over low-traffic neighbourhoods and cycle lanes are against their rollout, analysis by The Telegraph shows.

More than 25,000 residents and visitors have been surveyed as part of the 10 consultations published by councils to date. Dozens more reviews are expected to follow in the coming weeks.

In the consultations made public so far, 18,314 people have expressed a negative view of the active travel schemes, vastly outnumbering the 7,020 residents who expressed their support.

In Harrow, 6,073 survey participants (82 per cent) disapproved of the council’s schemes, which later became the first in the country to be completely removed after a six-month consultation.

In Windsor and Maidenhead, 1,998 of 2,221 residents (89 per cent) rejected plans to extend trial schemes in an overwhelming verdict that has prompted the council to promise a “big conversation” with residents about its active travel agenda.

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Two consultations came as an exception to the general rule, with 64 per cent of feedback in Bromley and 64.7 per cent in North Yorkshire in favour of the schemes.

Further analysis by this newspaper found that more than one in three councils have axed, modified or reduced their active travel schemes since Grant Shapps allocated a total of £2 billion across 110 local authorities last spring.

The 42 councils that have altered or scrapped their schemes were given a total of £119.6 million across two tranches of funding in May and November 2020.

Craig Mackinlay, the chairman of the all-parliamentary group for Fair Fuel, “At a time of national financial stress, spending so much on these ludicrous projects does not seem to me to be a good use of money,” he told The Telegraph.

“An ageing population is not likely in any way, shape or form to start taking to the bicycle to do their shopping. To restrict tight, existing road networks in order to accommodate cycle lanes is madness.”

Tony Devenish, a Conservative London Assembly member, who last year successfully campaigned for the removal of the Kensington High Street cycle lane, said: “My Government is at fault to some extent, because they gave councils the power not to publicly consult for up to 18 months.

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“You can’t just do these things to people. There has been absolute outcry from the Great British public - and that’s why so many councils have had to U-turn.”

The Department for Transport did not comment on the Telegraph’s findings.
 
Pretty sure the majority of londoners have no idea what an LTN is and stats are easily games with non-specific questions which a positive answer is assumed 'oh yes they must be for LTNs'

What happens when you look at stats of people who are consulted? Ppl who live in or around an LTN area and know what they are??:


Dominic Penna
29 May 2021 • 7:00pm
An estimated 5,000 residents took to the streets of Ealing last month in protest against the increasing number of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods
Nearly three quarters of people who have been consulted over low-traffic neighbourhoods and cycle lanes are against their rollout, analysis by The Telegraph shows.

More than 25,000 residents and visitors have been surveyed as part of the 10 consultations published by councils to date. Dozens more reviews are expected to follow in the coming weeks.

In the consultations made public so far, 18,314 people have expressed a negative view of the active travel schemes, vastly outnumbering the 7,020 residents who expressed their support.

In Harrow, 6,073 survey participants (82 per cent) disapproved of the council’s schemes, which later became the first in the country to be completely removed after a six-month consultation.

In Windsor and Maidenhead, 1,998 of 2,221 residents (89 per cent) rejected plans to extend trial schemes in an overwhelming verdict that has prompted the council to promise a “big conversation” with residents about its active travel agenda.

Advertisement

Two consultations came as an exception to the general rule, with 64 per cent of feedback in Bromley and 64.7 per cent in North Yorkshire in favour of the schemes.

Further analysis by this newspaper found that more than one in three councils have axed, modified or reduced their active travel schemes since Grant Shapps allocated a total of £2 billion across 110 local authorities last spring.

The 42 councils that have altered or scrapped their schemes were given a total of £119.6 million across two tranches of funding in May and November 2020.

Craig Mackinlay, the chairman of the all-parliamentary group for Fair Fuel, “At a time of national financial stress, spending so much on these ludicrous projects does not seem to me to be a good use of money,” he told The Telegraph.

“An ageing population is not likely in any way, shape or form to start taking to the bicycle to do their shopping. To restrict tight, existing road networks in order to accommodate cycle lanes is madness.”

Tony Devenish, a Conservative London Assembly member, who last year successfully campaigned for the removal of the Kensington High Street cycle lane, said: “My Government is at fault to some extent, because they gave councils the power not to publicly consult for up to 18 months.

Advertisement

“You can’t just do these things to people. There has been absolute outcry from the Great British public - and that’s why so many councils have had to U-turn.”

The Department for Transport did not comment on the Telegraph’s findings.

Great - a telegraph article, can you perhaps supply the links to the underlying research ?
 
Great - a telegraph article, can you perhaps supply the links to the underlying research ?

Research? They went to the councils who had consulted their residents in their areas and worked out for vs against.

Compare that to your study which appears to have just canvassed a few thousand eligible london voters.
 
Research? They went to the councils who had consulted their residents in their areas and worked out for vs against.
Compare that to your study which appears to have just canvassed a few thousand eligible london voters.

Something I’m not clear on - when you say

“stats are easily games with non-specific questions which a positive answer is assumed 'oh yes they must be for LTNs'”

are surveys of opinion good or bad ?

Alex
 
Something I’m not clear on - when you say

“stats are easily games with non-specific questions which a positive answer is assumed 'oh yes they must be for LTNs'”

are surveys of opinion good or bad ?

Alex

Lets look at the case in point.

Lots of people may be asked if they support LTNs and they may have no idea what they are...but it sounds good right? Low traffic. The negatives are never mentioned so people will say yeah that sounds great. Do you think active travel should be supported? Yes? GREAT THEN YOU SUPPORT LTNs. Would you like to see less pollution? Yes? GREAT THEN YOU SUPPORT LTNs.

Now look at the telegraph article. That's looking at true surveys of opinion via consultation. People in or around LTNs who know waht an LTN is, who know their impact and are feeding back to their councils.

The one TFL did in ferndale showed the same, large majority outside against and even inside it was not that great if i remember.

It just shows that the little 2000 person london polls are not worth the time when the real stats, from residents, via councils or bodies like TFL are not showing the reality.
 

An interesting article written regarding LTNs, congestion and pollution in general. Some good points made here esp about investment in Hydrogen. It’s an area I’ve done some work on, it’s probably the best option across a number of areas (cars, aircraft, heating, busses). IMHO the government should be piling investment into this to fast forward it as soon as possible.
 

Hydrogen’s Inherent Flaw

The problem is that this convenience hides a significant flaw in the technology that has somehow failed to be included in the marketing propaganda of hydrogen evangelists. It doesn’t appear to be widely understood by those who have been listening to these messages either. The flaw is basically caused by the laws of physics. For hydrogen to be completely green, it must be produced by electrolyzing water, which splits this into the H2 and O that it is made of. You can produce H2 from fossil fuels (usually methane), but this creates either “grey” hydrogen (which still produces lots of CO2) or “blue” hydrogen (which captures 90% of the CO2 and stores it, merely delaying the problem). Only electrolyzing hydrogen from water using electricity generated from renewable sources makes the fuel entirely green.

The reason why hydrogen is inefficient is because the energy must move from wire to gas to wire in order to power a car.
Put together, only 38% of the original electricity – 38 watts out of 100 – are used

So it’s unlikely to be a “green” source of power and has massive losses in use (before you get into the issues of storing and transferring pressurised gas)
 
Nothing new in that article. Just a rehash of all the familiar arguments.

I note it calls for increased focus on cycle quietways and also the removal of all LTNs. Part of the point of LTNs is to facilitate those quietways.
 
I wouldn't mind removing all parking from one side of all residential streets, to be replaced with a segregated 2-way cycle lane. The remaining single traffic lane can be one-way only or two-way with a few designated passing spots. That might be a fair trade.
 
I wouldn't mind removing all parking from one side of all residential streets, to be replaced with a segregated 2-way cycle lane. The remaining single traffic lane can be one-way only or two-way with a few designated passing spots. That might be a fair trade.
Can you imagine the howls of protest though :D
 
I wouldn't mind removing all parking from one side of all residential streets, to be replaced with a segregated 2-way cycle lane. The remaining single traffic lane can be one-way only or two-way with a few designated passing spots. That might be a fair trade.
Nice idea but in practice difficult. One way streets work best if there's a grid system and single lane roads with passing spaces just cause more congestion when selfish drivers don't let cars through and you get log jams. Drivers also race through the gaps to try and beat the oncoming vehicle. ☹️
 
This is accurate, however there is a small matter of degree. For example: smashing up street furniture that was put in by local families to make their corner nicer. Celebrating death threats sent to a councillor. Inviting out-of-area rightwing figures who have actively worked against vulnerable people in the past to speak in our community. I just dont see the equivalence you do Gramsci.

The equivalence is imo that this push to put fast forward these measures comes from central government. The right wing Boris government.

It could be argued that these measures are good for society.

They are being funded by a government that on other issues is right wing. More right wing than recent previous Tory governments.

Part of reason why say UKIP did so poorly is that in effect this Tory party under Boris has gone to the right. Why vote UKIP when you can vote for Tory Party led by Boris?

Much has been made that anti LTN are right wing on this thread. Its different sections of the hard right that are supporting the idea or opposing it.

Opposition to LTNs is a mixed bunch as is supporters.
 
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The equivalence is imo that this push to put fast forward these measures comes from central government. The right wing Boris government.

It could be argued that these measures are good for society.

They are being funded by a government that on other issues is right wing. More right wing than recent previous Tory governments.

Part of reason why say UKIP did so poorly is that in effect this Tory party under Boris has gone to the right. Why vote UKIP when you can vote for Tory Party led by Boris?

Much has been made that anti LTN are right wing on this thread. Its different sections of the hard right that are supporting the idea or opposing it.

Opposition to LTNs is a mixed bunch as is supporters.
Support is fairly cross-party and most of the mainstream parties are in favor in principle, and I think they'd largely agree on what the benefits are.

A lot of the opposition (certainly not all) is from relatively marginal groups arguing from a jumble of different positions. That was rather clear in the Mayoral elections.

All this arguing about whether or not it's a "right wing" policy based on what factions do or don't like it seems a bit pointless - why not just judge it on its own merits.
 
Support is fairly cross-party and most of the mainstream parties are in favor in principle, and I think they'd largely agree on what the benefits are.

A lot of the opposition (certainly not all) is from relatively marginal groups arguing from a jumble of different positions. That was rather clear in the Mayoral elections.

All this arguing about whether or not it's a "right wing" policy based on what factions do or don't like it seems a bit pointless - why not just judge it on its own merits.

Yet it keeps coming up here.

The fact is the funding is coming from a hard right government.
 
‘But what does seem quite clear is that in a bad year for Labour, cycle schemes saved or won votes for us, not lost them. And that if there was any “controversy”, it worked largely in our favour.’


I vote Labour not because of LTNs.

I don't want Tories running London. Voting Labour is only realistic option to keep them out.
 
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Ive raised this with my ward councillors and they've been sympathetic but noncommittal. They should be pressed on this. Would be so much better if the deeply concerned were organising to push things like this, as opposed to ‘bin it’ ism.

They are "non committal" as if they did take this issue up they would be called to have a chat with chief Whip or leader.

As my popular ex Cllr Rachel was on regular basis when she took up her constituents concerns.

Ward Cllrs on topics like this are told to be non committal if they want to stay in Labour group.

Tbf its almost pointless emailing ones local ward Cllr about this.

In the Cabinet run system they are glove puppets of the leadership.
 
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I'm not sure left vs right helps the discussion any more than working class vs whatever.

The UK Conservative party generally argues that 'marketisation' is the way to ensure that resources are used efficiently and productively. They privatised the railways, utilities and are by stealth seemingly doing the same to health and education (with academies and 'free schools). However, they've typically not been consistent when it comes to motoring - against parking charges, congestion charge, speeding fines etc etc or drug policy (where they revert to authoritarianism).

Likewise 'working class' - what does that mean any more? Marxist definition as 'individuals who sell their labour power for wages and do not own the means of production' doesn't really cover taxi driver, or (mostly self employed) plumbers and electricians. Train drivers? Base salary for a tube driver is supposedly £55k plus benefits.
 
What bothers me is the narrative that somehow this is an even sided argument, two equal but opposing camps. It’s not, the anti brigade are an overly vocal minority.
I’m not sure that is fair. Equally you could just say that the pro-camp just happen to have all the power and can implement whatever they want without a care for anyone who isn’t of their opinion.
 
The government introduced the furlough scheme, and that was hardly right wing.
I saw the Pope described as a Peronist the other day.
Preaches progressive stuff when the audience wants to hear it, and reactionary stuff when that audience wants it.
I reckon that is the secret of Boris Johnson too.

The furlough scheme is a populist solution to a shot-term crisis.
But like the Pope, when the shit hits the fan Boris will leave the explanations to his minions - and will no doubt leave them with the difficult decisions.
 
I’m not sure that is fair. Equally you could just say that the pro-camp just happen to have all the power and can implement whatever they want without a care for anyone who isn’t of their opinion.
If you look at the wider picture in terms of spending on roads, the space given up to cars, the lack of measures on pollution it's absurd to say the pro camp have all the power. These LTNS are a tiny step away from all that. Tiny.
 
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