Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Gramsci]

Absolutely. Because these schemes are already in local and London plans to address climate, air quality and inactivity crises.

All these Lambeth schemes were already in their strategy pre Covid - in Streatham to work with high road cycleways, around Brixton through Liveable Neighbourhood.



so over a barrel Lambeth and TfL are getting funding to do stuff they had already said they were going to do. Wow.

and my politics?
Not driven by ideology- I can accept an evidence based or societally desirable policy regardless of who is proposing it and I can accept that a party or group can make both good and bad policy.

As you have been told more than once the Council promised that the consultation over the Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood would learn from the mistakes of the LJ road closures.

So you are incorrect to say the Council would already do this.

I know as I attend local community meetings and this is what the relevant Council officer who dealt with with the Brixton liveable neighbourhood said. He also said If they could not show support for the scheme to TFL it would not go ahead.

The pandemic cut short the consultation on the Brixton liveable neighbourhood.

Bringing in short term measures for the pandemic is reasonable.

Using pandemic to push through permanent schemes is not.

 

[sleaterkinney]

No, you're right. However with the kids in bed i've had time to look into the places where they get the data as others have mentioned all boroughs have seen an improvement. This is Lambeth attached. Huge improvements accross the borough 2013 vs 2016.in all areas bar the very, very north,

Begs the question. Can the improvements you linked be because of the LTNs or in spite of them?

The fundamental point though is if you want to reduce pollution then you reduce traffic, can you agree with that?

 

[thebackrow]

I know as I attend local community meetings and this is what the relevant Council officer who dealt with with the Brixton liveable neighbourhood said. He also said If they could not show support for the scheme to TFL it would not go ahead.


Bringing in short term measures for the pandemic is reasonable.

Using pandemic to push through permanent schemes is not.

I thought there was no consultation and the council didn’t listen to residents? You seem to have a awful lot of meetings and chances to speak with them

To your second point - it’s very clearly set out that there has to be consultation before schemes are made permanent. So why are you so unhappy ?

 

[Gramsci]

[

I thought there was no consultation and the council didn’t listen to residents? You seem to have a awful lot of meetings and chances to speak with them

This is a thread on Brixton liveable neighbourhood.

I've pointed out to you more than once the consultation on it was cut short due to pandemic.

That is a fact.

So I don't know what you are going on about.

 

[Gramsci]

I thought there was no consultation and the council didn’t listen to residents? You seem to have a awful lot of meetings and chances to speak with them

To your second point - it’s very clearly set out that there has to be consultation before schemes are made permanent. So why are you so unhappy ?

So what is your experience?

I attend local neighbourhood forum for LJ. I also attend Brixton neighbourhood forum sometimes.

 

[Gramsci]

I thought there was no consultation and the council didn’t listen to residents? You seem to have a awful lot of meetings and chances to speak with them

To your second point - it’s very clearly set out that there has to be consultation before schemes are made permanent. So why are you so unhappy ?

The Council has decided to not consult imo.

It is using ETOs. It didn't have to do this.

It could have kept the Covid emergency measure in place and then consulted.

ETO have nothing to do with a health emergency.

It is way Councils have learnt is convenient way to put in place a scheme getting around lengthy pre consultation. Makes their lives easier.

It never was part of Brixton liveable neighbourhood project before pandemic.

 

[thebackrow]

The Council has decided to not consult imo.

It is using ETOs. It didn't have to do this.

It could have kept the Covid emergency measure in place and then consulted.

ETO have nothing to do with a health emergency.

It is way Councils have learnt is convenient way to put in place a scheme getting around lengthy pre consultation. Makes their lives easier.

It never was part of Brixton liveable neighbourhood project before pandemic.

There’s a point at which it’s just easiest to say “you’re wrong”, because all this has be covered repeatedly.

and yes, that may be your opinion. But you are wrong.

 

[Gramsci]

There’s a point at which it’s just easiest to say “you’re wrong”, because all this has be covered repeatedly.

and yes, that may be your opinion. But you are wrong.

Im talking facts here on this thread on the Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood about the consultation process.

Based on my personal experience of attending my local neighbourhood forums and hearing officers say how it would be done ( pre pandemic)

What is your actual experience? What have you attended?

 

[thebackrow]

The Council has decided to not consult imo.

It is using ETOs. It didn't have to do this.

It could have kept the Covid emergency measure in place and then consulted.

ETO have nothing to do with a health emergency.

It is way Councils have learnt is convenient way to put in place a scheme getting around lengthy pre consultation. Makes their lives easier.

It never was part of Brixton liveable neighbourhood project before pandemic.

There are six statements you’ve made there and IMO they are all false.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Some nice stats here, get the WhatsApp guy!

Love Lambeth

Figures from Lambeth Council’s first stage of independent traffic monitoring indicate that traffic levels have been cut by over a quarter when taking into account roads inside and on the boundary of the Railton low traffic neighbourhood.

love.lambeth.gov.uk

 

[editor]

Some nice stats here, get the WhatsApp guy!

Love Lambeth

Figures from Lambeth Council’s first stage of independent traffic monitoring indicate that traffic levels have been cut by over a quarter when taking into account roads inside and on the boundary of the Railton low traffic neighbourhood.

love.lambeth.gov.uk

A quarter doesn't seem that much of as reduction given that we've been in lockdown/semi lockdown the whole time. Shame they didn't monitor the traffic on Coldharbour Lane too.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Some nice stats here, get the WhatsApp guy!

Love Lambeth

Figures from Lambeth Council’s first stage of independent traffic monitoring indicate that traffic levels have been cut by over a quarter when taking into account roads inside and on the boundary of the Railton low traffic neighbourhood.

love.lambeth.gov.uk

From their guide:

"We will be monitoring a range of before and after data sets to assess the impact of our LTN programme."

When were the before stats? They put them in first and measured after.

 

[Crispy]

I await the full report in the new year.

 

[editor]

I await the full report in the new year.

There's still enough there to make the OneLambeth group go supernova with rage

 

[thebackrow]

A quarter doesn't seem that much of as reduction given that we've been in lockdown/semi lockdown the whole time. Shame they didn't monitor the traffic on Coldharbour Lane too.

"compared with a baseline calculated using data from previous years, as well as considering background traffic data for the wider London network."
suggests it's adjusted to take this year's strangeness into account

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Also they only mention counts, despite saying they will monitor a range of things. What's the issue with counts?

Oh yes! Look! So few cars going by! Only one every minute now. Problem solved. High fives all around

 

[Crispy]

It's also selective enough to make it weak evidence for now.
They're obviously keen to make some good news and so there are fuzzy words like "the area" and "the majority"
I bet CHL is busier than it was, and its abscence from these stats is pretty blatant.

Still, pretty good signs that the LTNs are broadly effective.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

"compared with a baseline calculated using data from previous years, as well as considering background traffic data for the wider London network."
suggests it's adjusted to take this year's strangeness into account

FOI's have been raised asking for this data from the council. Their only data is relating to 20mph limits and nowhere near these LTNs. I.e if they had such data they would have to share it. TFL had cameras on Effra road! Who knew.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

There's still enough there to make the OneLambeth group go supernova with rage

You just had to post a certain councillors name for that!

 

[editor]

It's also selective enough to make it weak evidence for now.
They're obviously keen to make some good news and so there are fuzzy words like "the area" and "the majority"
I bet CHL is busier than it was, and its abscence from these stats is pretty blatant.

Still, pretty good signs that the LTNs are broadly effective.

It kind of undermines the 'independent' nature of the survey when the council get to frame what stats get collected. The omission of Coldharbour Lane is also going to infuriate a lot of people, and just create more division and distrust of the council.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

It kind of undermines the 'independent' nature of the survey when the council get to frame what stats get collected. The omission of Coldharbour Lane is going to infuriate a lot of people, and just spreads more distrust in the council.

This.

When you look at the window and see traffic all day long when before there was only traffic during rush hour and then the THIS LOOKS GREAT PEOPLE stuff startscoming out

 

[thebackrow]

Counts for the northern part of Shakespeare Road are interesting given that's where a lot of vocal opposition seemed to come from. I seem to remember claims being made on here that it was perfectly fine for cycling before, there was now more HGV traffic than ever.

• Car traffic levels are down on Shakespeare Road (-56%) and HGV levels on the northerly end of Shakespeare Road are slightly down too by 5%
• Cycling levels are up 36% overall including 74% on Shakespeare Road and 50% on Railton Road

 

[sleaterkinney]

A quarter doesn't seem that much of as reduction given that we've been in lockdown/semi lockdown the whole time. Shame they didn't monitor the traffic on Coldharbour Lane too.

They mention one of the improvements as

• Improvements to the signal phasing of the Coldharbour Lane /Atlantic Road junction to improve traffic flows along Coldharbour Lane.

 

[editor]

They mention one of the improvements as

• Improvements to the signal phasing of the Coldharbour Lane /Atlantic Road junction to improve traffic flows along Coldharbour Lane.

But zero stats so it's pretty much meaningless. Don't you think it's strange that there's plenty of stats for everywhere else?

 

[sleaterkinney]

But zero stats so it's pretty much meaningless. Don't you think it's strange that there's plenty of stats for everywhere else?

They mention the traffic light phasing, so they've obviously been monitoring it.

 

[editor]

They mention the traffic light phasing, so they obviously been monitoring it.

So why do you think they're not mentioning the numbers? The press release is clearly trying to give the scheme a positive spin, but such obvious obfuscation is just going to make people more angry and lead to more divisions. I don't give a fuck about the nuances of signal phasing when traffic and pollution is clearly up in my street - and Lambeth can't even be honest about it.

 

[sleaterkinney]

So why do you think they're not mentioning the numbers? The press release is clearly trying to give the scheme a positive spin, but such obvious obfuscation is just going to make people more angry and lead to more divisions. I don't give a fuck about the nuances of signal phasing when traffic and pollution is clearly up in my street - and Lambeth can't even be honest about it.

I'd expect that to be in the full report.

 

[editor]

I'd expect that to be in the full report.

If you were the one breathing in more exhaust every time you left the house, perhaps you'd understand the frustration caused by its curious omission from Lambeth's report.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

If you were the one breathing in more exhaust every time you left the house, perhaps you'd understand the frustration caused by its curious omission from Lambeth's report.

Especially seeing as other some boroughs seem to have this information to hand quite easily.

 

[thebackrow]

If you were the one breathing in more exhaust every time you left the house, perhaps you'd understand the frustration caused by its curious omission from Lambeth's report.

"It rose slightly (6%) on Coldharbour Lane."

on a Claire Holland Tweet. maybe they heard you!