Jeanette Moo
Active Member
They're saying nice things about this article! Figures.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
They're saying nice things about this article! Figures.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Indeed. I’ve seen comments assuming it was the equivalent of a newspaper editorial - ie the “Brixton Buzz view”. which is why I commented on the lack of clarity about author.
”This article by local contributors]” at the bottom is both vague and likely to be missed.
editor
hiraethified
It says 'Opinion' in the title, is credited to 'contributor' and even states, 'This article by local contributors' at the bottom of the piece.
Have to say I'm getting fucked off taking flak from both sides here
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Im not giving you flak, and have no issue with you publishing it but I just don’t think it’s very clear - to me “contributor“ suggests a frequent writer rather some random. (which is how I’ve seen it interpreted elsewhere). This is basically One Lambeth and should be flagged as such if an individual doesn’t want to put their name to it. It shows every sign of having been written by the same person that’s written much of their other comms.
I think you’re doing a good job of covering both sides but I don’t think the attribution on this is clear enough.
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Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Its doing its job by promoting discussion on what is clearly a key, and local, topic. Don't be put off because you're only going to please half the people with each article.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
We do really need as much discussion as possible on straw-man stuff like "tradespersons and patient transport crews" being expected to go about their business on bicycles.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Or you could have 'consultation'. Its a new fangled thing all the kids are talking about in order to find out the impact of sweeping changes before they are made.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It's a shame the authors of the piece want to be anonymous, because when they talk about:
"fair consultations in order to develop more equitable inclusive schemes which benefit the many and not the few"
there's no way to ask them what they think those schemes might look like.
The rest of the article gives some clues though.
"fair consultations in order to develop more equitable inclusive schemes which benefit the many and not the few"
there's no way to ask them what they think those schemes might look like.
The rest of the article gives some clues though.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Ah right. No one could be found to consult. Where oh where can these people be hiding. Their houses probably.
John Schofield
Well-Known Member
Quite a useful article:
flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com
The outcry over LTNs is not a culture war – it’s more serious than that
Map by LiveWestEaling We knew the latter half of 2020 would see arguments about Brexit, lockdown restrictions, masks and the US election. What we didn’t foresee was that, in many places, the row of…
flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Quite a useful article:
The outcry over LTNs is not a culture war – it’s more serious than that
Map by LiveWestEaling We knew the latter half of 2020 would see arguments about Brexit, lockdown restrictions, masks and the US election. What we didn’t foresee was that, in many places, the row of…
Very good.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Wow. 50% of LTN noise on Twitter is from just 20 accounts. That is utterlyQuite a useful article:
The outcry over LTNs is not a culture war – it’s more serious than that
Map by LiveWestEaling We knew the latter half of 2020 would see arguments about Brexit, lockdown restrictions, masks and the US election. What we didn’t foresee was that, in many places, the row of…
I wonder whether those accounts are all unique users?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Well the majority of people in Lambeth don’t own a car - maybe he wants more LTNs?
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I love the (alleged) quote from St Augustine in the penultimate paragraph.Quite a useful article:
The outcry over LTNs is not a culture war – it’s more serious than that
Map by LiveWestEaling We knew the latter half of 2020 would see arguments about Brexit, lockdown restrictions, masks and the US election. What we didn’t foresee was that, in many places, the row of…
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Well, the majority of people have lungs. I'm pretty sure about that..........its probably what he is talking about
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
If the majority of people have lungs then he wants less traffic?.
How do you know its a 'he's btw?
sparkybird
ask the bird...
And you wonder where everyone is going, given the situation?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Quite a useful article:
The outcry over LTNs is not a culture war – it’s more serious than that
Map by LiveWestEaling We knew the latter half of 2020 would see arguments about Brexit, lockdown restrictions, masks and the US election. What we didn’t foresee was that, in many places, the row of…
It is one persons view. But I see and agree with where he says that it is not culture war in sense that ( argued by posters on here) that anti LTN is right wing ( EDL/ racist cabbies/ Farage supporters funded by shadowy right wing groups as posted here)
He is talking from his own personal experience. I also don't think anti LTN people in Lambeth can be categorised in that way.
John Schofield
Well-Known Member
I also agree - I thought that was the most useful point in the blog.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Yes, a lot of sense there in that piece -
But even if LTNs were proven beyond doubt to reduce levels of traffic and emissions, I suspect it would have little impact on the debate. LTNs require a significant shift in behaviour and such things are not generally popular.
The row over Low Traffic Neighbourhoods may turn out to be a storm in a teacup. Maybe we will just get used to them or perhaps the opposition will kill the idea stone dead. The outcry does draw attention to an important question though. Most of us recognise, at least in the abstract, that we will need to change our behaviour if we are to have a hope of even slowing down the rate of climate change. The government’s emission targets will be unachievable without reduced car use. But that ‘we’ is abstract and somewhere in the future. I’m reminded of St Augustine, who is supposed to have said, “Please God, make me good, but not just yet.”
"Yes, I know reducing the number of short car journeys is a good idea but not in my area, or, at least, not yet. Yes, I know we have to save the planet but right now I need to get to West Ealing Sainsbury’s for my weekly shop and I’m annoyed that I have to do a 270 degree journey to get there"
But even if LTNs were proven beyond doubt to reduce levels of traffic and emissions, I suspect it would have little impact on the debate. LTNs require a significant shift in behaviour and such things are not generally popular.
The row over Low Traffic Neighbourhoods may turn out to be a storm in a teacup. Maybe we will just get used to them or perhaps the opposition will kill the idea stone dead. The outcry does draw attention to an important question though. Most of us recognise, at least in the abstract, that we will need to change our behaviour if we are to have a hope of even slowing down the rate of climate change. The government’s emission targets will be unachievable without reduced car use. But that ‘we’ is abstract and somewhere in the future. I’m reminded of St Augustine, who is supposed to have said, “Please God, make me good, but not just yet.”
"Yes, I know reducing the number of short car journeys is a good idea but not in my area, or, at least, not yet. Yes, I know we have to save the planet but right now I need to get to West Ealing Sainsbury’s for my weekly shop and I’m annoyed that I have to do a 270 degree journey to get there"
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Well so far two boroughs have shown pollution to go up in and around the LTNs. But lets keep posting pics happy pics of kids on tricycles and put wads of toilet tissue in our ears while those of us on the roads, where the traffic now sits barely moving, choke.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Source?
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
This would be the Wandsworth ltn which was never given a chance to bed in?. Some of those planters were in there for days.
Here’s a better study from Waltham Forest, an ltn which has been in place for a while:
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Just asked on whatsapp.
"This is a model, not a measurement. In addition if you look at the 2007 report they refer to they have omitted most of the 'bad news' from the model. In addition, it does not mention LTNs - at the time of its writing the LTN would have been a tiny area and reductions are bigger in areas that were not near the LTN. Every borough has a similar story as NO2 dropped due to Euro5/6 standards.'
teuchter
je suis teuchter
To the best of my knowledge there is zero data that tells us anything reliable about the effect on pollution of teh recent LTN implementations. That's partly because of the bedding in period effect, partly because you need to look at things over a longer timescale anyway to find a meaningful baseline and partly because it's all tangled up with lockdown and covid effects.
That's a problem for both sides of the argument because it can't really be proven either way at the moment, but anyone claiming there's clear evidence that LTNs have increased pollution is talking rubbish.
That's a problem for both sides of the argument because it can't really be proven either way at the moment, but anyone claiming there's clear evidence that LTNs have increased pollution is talking rubbish.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
There’s an expert on WhatsApp!
Did they make up this modelling then? What is the bad news they left out?.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
My simple brain looks at the Wandsworth figures and takes them as granted. LTN on, LTN off. No other factors in that time period that im aware of such as lockdowns suddenly being lifted and they kept the A24 restrictions. Then I look at Walthamstow and ask if they have had it for years why are they modeling and not measuring? Why are they ignoring most of the worst offending 'tubes' in their update? Surely walthamstow measurement would be the key data in support?
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