Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Jeanette Moo]

The money is coming from central government.

Still, does not give people much confidence when permament things are put in before the consultation has finished (begun?!), let alone the trial

 

[sleaterkinney]

Still, does not give people much confidence when permament things are put in before the consultation has finished (begun?!), let alone the trial

Are the concrete bollards not moveable?

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Nope

 

[editor]

Nope

That does rather have an air of permanence about it.

 

[teuchter]

Still, does not give people much confidence when permament things are put in before the consultation has finished (begun?!), let alone the trial

Well, I guess that the more that people smash stuff up, the more public money you have to spend putting in things that people can'y physically move. Because you can't have a trial of something that keeps not being there.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Well, I guess that the more that people smash stuff up, the more public money you have to spend putting in things that people can'y physically move. Because you can't have a trial of something that keeps not being there.

I've yet to see any smashed. Seen many toppled over - often put back upright by those both for and against the LTNs or just the council. There are so many ways to make them so they cant be toppled. Concrete boxes? Bollards?

 

[sparkybird]

Nope

Hi Jeanette. Are those the Croydon planters you referred to earlier?

 

[snowy_again]

I've yet to see any smashed. Seen many toppled over - often put back upright by those both for and against the LTNs or just the council.

Someone has helpfully compiled a list of them:

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Hi Jeanette. Are those the Croydon planters you referred to earlier?

Yes, as I have been lead to believe

 

[Rushy]

Hi Jeanette. Are those the Croydon planters you referred to earlier?

The photo is South Norwood.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The photo is South Norwood.

I think it is Croydon council though.

 

[sleaterkinney]

More vandalism..

 

[thebackrow]

I've yet to see any smashed. Seen many toppled over - often put back upright by those both for and against the LTNs or just the council. There are so many ways to make them so they cant be toppled. Concrete boxes? Bollards?

Here you go Jeanette. I'm not sure what difference you perceive between tipped over, pushed out of the way, and smashed up but they've all happened.

An odd approach from those opposed to both complain about the cost and then vandalise the schemes causing them to become much more expensive.

Signs and cameras vandalised in Streatham and repeatedly in Railton and currently a load currently missing in Ferndale. It's criminal damage of public property - disappointing if they dont' get the Police involved and stamp it out.

 

[teuchter]

Hackney are saying that initial monitoring does not show that LTNs have increased traffic on main roads.

LTNs have not caused a rise in nearby main road traffic, early analysis shows

The introduction of low traffic neighbourhoods in Hackney has not caused a rise in traffic levels at nearby monitoring sites on five main A-and-B roads, early analysis of Transport for London (TfL) traffic data shows. The analysis uses data from five TfL traffic count monitoring sites in the...

news.hackney.gov.uk

It seems that their efforts to do the monitoring are also being hampered by attempts to sabotage the monitoring devices.

 

[editor]

I got sent this today:



Road use drops 30% since start of lockdown

Car use is around 30% lower on weekdays during lockdown 2.0, according to new data released by the Department for Transport.

Weekend road use is also down sharply, a 40% drop since the tighter restrictions came into effect.

By contrast, average car use plummeted 65% during the first lockdown, while April’s Easter weekend registered the lowest level of non-weekday car traffic, coming in at 75% lower than usual.

Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) traffic is the only vehicle group running above its pre-pandemic level since the 1stSeptember – showing a continuous flow of vital supplies.

 

[alex_]

It seems that their efforts to do the monitoring are also being hampered by attempts to sabotage the monitoring devices.

this is super odd, you’d have thought that they’d welcome data showing that traffic levels are up.

 

[Rushy]

An odd approach from those opposed to both complain about the cost and then vandalise the schemes causing them to become much more expensive.

Just to clarify, are you privy to evidence that the individuals responsible for smashing these up are the same individuals who have argued against LTNs on the basis of cost? Or are you treating any and all critics as one amorphous super being?

 

[sparkybird]

this is super odd, you’d have thought that they’d welcome data showing that traffic levels are up.

Maybe they are hedging their bets, incase the data doesn't support their assertions that traffic levels are up... very clever....

 

[alex_]

Maybe they are hedging their bets, incase the data doesn't support their assertions that traffic levels are up... very clever....

but they are so sure of themselves

 

[thebackrow]

Just to clarify, are you privy to evidence that the individuals responsible for smashing these up are the same individuals who have argued against LTNs on the basis of cost? Or are you treating any and all critics as one amorphous super being?

The joyless berk who has been vandalising the Railton planters and scrawling over the signs in marker pen has now written £3000 on them (which I think is what the Telegraph were outraged that they cost to be built/installed/planted and maintained). That seems to indicate an overlap.

 

[editor]

The joyless berk who has been vandalising the Railton planters and scrawling over the signs in marker pen has now written £3000 on them (which I think is what the Telegraph were outraged that they cost to be built/installed/planted and maintained). That seems to indicate an overlap.

Here's how a sing looked yesterday

 

[thebackrow]

More visible on this one but you can see it on the one editor has posted too.

 

[teuchter]

Apparently it's not actually anti-LTN people doing the vandalism - the real reason is:

It’s a plan from the council or some group, destroy or vandalise the signs. It gives them the opportunity to put more permanent barriers up, with the intention to never remove, see my post from last night

 

[nick]

I heard they are also spreading covid over the planters to infect dissenters.
And each camera also has a 5 G station in it

 

[sleaterkinney]

They're actually so Sadiq Khan can scan the microchips in the vaccines.

 

[editor]

The planking on Atlantic Road is already falling apart

 

[Gramsci]

I don't have a problem with people putting graffiti on signs, Its non violent direct action.

Whether I agree with the comments is another matter.

But morally Im ok with it as long as it is not racist or sexist.

 

[teuchter]

Today some groups representing black cab drivers are at the High Court where they've managed to get a judicial review of the "streetspace" schemes in central London (and in general?). These are separate from LTNs; they are the schemes introduced by TfL to provide extra pedestrian/cycle space. Particularly in contention seems to be an area around Bishopsgate where there are bus gates that exclude taxis along with other vehicles.

Their argument seems to be along the lines that it's a reasonable expectation that taxis have access to the same places that buses do.

I guess it will be interesting to see what the judge decides. Not sure how relevant the outcome of this will be to the various LTN judicial reviews that are coming up.

 

[Winot]

Today some groups representing black cab drivers are at the High Court where they've managed to get a judicial review of the "streetspace" schemes in central London (and in general?). These are separate from LTNs; they are the schemes introduced by TfL to provide extra pedestrian/cycle space. Particularly in contention seems to be an area around Bishopsgate where there are bus gates that exclude taxis along with other vehicles.

Their argument seems to be along the lines that it's a reasonable expectation that taxis have access to the same places that buses do.

I guess it will be interesting to see what the judge decides. Not sure how relevant the outcome of this will be to the various LTN judicial reviews that are coming up.

Judicial review looks at the way in which a public body has reached a decision rather than the rights and wrongs of the scheme. The best the cabbies can hope for is a conclusion that the implementation was flawed (eg it needs more consultation).

 

[co-op]

Judicial review looks at the way in which a public body has reached a decision rather than the rights and wrongs of the scheme. The best the cabbies can hope for is a conclusion that the implementation was flawed (eg it needs more consultation).

Yes if you are trying to affect an actual decision outcome JRs are a waste of time imo; even if you win the JR it just gets sent back to the decision-making body who re-run the decision as a tick box exercise and hey presto! they get to do what they originally decided. It's much like the whole concept of top-down "consultation", it's pretty much always bogus.