Jeanette Moo
Active Member
I think you're right in that this is certainly something they have learned and also a point those in support of LTNs are very vocal about.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
I think you're right in that this is certainly something they have learned and also a point those in support of LTNs are very vocal about.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
One of the lessons from LJ is thay if people kick up enough of a fuss then the Council will leave you alone.
Given that Lambeth is rolling out LTNs in large swathes of Lambeth its getting conspicious that LJ is being treated with kid gloves.
I sometimes feel Lambeth is like a bully. Will impose things on areas. If opposition goes quietly through all the correct channels your brushed aside. Or treated ( as one of my Cllrs does) as not "representative" of the local community.
If a local communiity vocally stands up to the playground bully it backs off.
Given that Lambeth is rolling out LTNs in large swathes of Lambeth its getting conspicious that LJ is being treated with kid gloves.
I sometimes feel Lambeth is like a bully. Will impose things on areas. If opposition goes quietly through all the correct channels your brushed aside. Or treated ( as one of my Cllrs does) as not "representative" of the local community.
If a local communiity vocally stands up to the playground bully it backs off.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
A report saying that there's no evidence that the benefits of LTNs are gained disproportionately by the more wealthy
www.theguardian.com
(unfortunately the link to the report itself currently seems to be broken)
Low-traffic schemes benefit everyone, not just better-off, finds study
Exclusive: authors find ‘no clear social equity problem related to low-traffic neighbourhoods’ after studying slew of projects sparked by Covid restrictions
(unfortunately the link to the report itself currently seems to be broken)
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Not a fan of every argument being reduced to poor vs wealthy. Hard to comment on the findings without a link. But I would have though that even if LTNs overall are found not to disproportionality benefit one group over another this will differ from one LTN to the next. Which again is why it is fine having top down approach but it needs to be accompanied by local level assessment and implementation - each application should be open to scrutiny (consultation) by the people affected by it.A report saying that there's no evidence that the benefits of LTNs are gained disproportionately by the more wealthy
Low-traffic schemes benefit everyone, not just better-off, finds study
Exclusive: authors find ‘no clear social equity problem related to low-traffic neighbourhoods’ after studying slew of projects sparked by Covid restrictions
(unfortunately the link to the report itself currently seems to be broken)
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blameless77
Well-Known Member
And this: 'I got it wrong. Since the changes it's become more vibrant': life in an LTN
So, even anti's are now starting to realise the positives (Railton specifically mentioned in this)
So, even anti's are now starting to realise the positives (Railton specifically mentioned in this)
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
There is one of these near me at the end of Concannon road. The signs have been ripped off the wooden flowerbeds and the wires powering the camera up the lampost cut.
editor
hiraethified
Just putting this here
www.theguardian.com
Mythbusters: eight common objections to LTNs – and why they are wrong
Low-traffic neighbourhoods have existed for decades but plans often spark fierce debate. We look at some of the biggest concerns
teuchter
je suis teuchter
My observation is that the last several times (in the past 3 weeks or so) I have walked along Coldharbour Lane (LJ to Brixton stretch) I have not seen any significant backing up of traffic or anything very much different to "normal". This tends to be in the middle of the day rather than rush hour though.
Would it be fair to say that things there seem to be settling somewhat?
Would it be fair to say that things there seem to be settling somewhat?
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Likewise, the congestion on Bedford Rd that followed the start of the Ferndale LTN has disappeared.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
Its still quite bad some evenings when im walking past.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Needless to say, there have been long traffic queues on Bedford Road since long before the LTN went in.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes its great stepforward. I can now get flowers deliverd to my door by a nice Lady on a cargo bike. Thanks to the LTN. Helpfully the Guardian gave a plug and photo for her business.
About
Guardian is a paper for the middle classes. That is the liberal middle class.
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Would you trust a local council, or a consultation, with policies such as seatbelts in cars, or smoking in enclosed public places? These are examples of policies that are not at all controversial now, but at the time were.
(FWIW I have very very little faith in Lambeth to implement anything in a clearly defined and objective way. And at the same time I see the idea of LTNs as being good, based on the studies I’ve seen. Both can be true, for me)
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Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Just putting this here
Mythbusters: eight common objections to LTNs – and why they are wrong
Low-traffic neighbourhoods have existed for decades but plans often spark fierce debate. We look at some of the biggest concerns
Not my words but copying from everyone's favourite place - Nextdoor about this article
" The article you link to is very poorly written and extremely unbalanced. I'm not going to fact check the whole article but quick responses numbering the so-called 'myths' from 1 to 8:
1. Virtually any road any could be part of an LTN in principle so this argument is meaningless. It's clear that the recent LTNs have focused on through traffic in residential streets anyway.
2. This point denies itself - roads are blocked, it's just that the author approves of some types of blocking and not others.
3. The author actually agrees with this 'myth'!
4. He acknowledges that some disabled people are disadvantaged, so no myth.
5. So LTNs have slowed down emergency services, and the congestion they cause has as well. Bit of an own goal here.
6. Traffic evaporation has not been convincingly demonstrated (yet?) with respect to the current crop of new LTNs. Huge congestion has. And the additional rerouting, slower moving or stationary traffic and longer journey times has surely increased air pollution on the diverted-to roads.
7. Tell that to the traders on Balham High Road. The studies referred to are often commissioned by municipal authorities to defend their pro-cycling plans so are not objective.
8. Just a silly straw man, I won't bother with this (he argues against himself again anyway). Maybe 8 'myths' just sounded better than 7. "
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
If you think that this should be imposed on communities without consultation - fine that is your opinion.
I would yet again point out tht pre covid the Council had started consultation on a Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood. This was halted due to pandemic.
Now the Council are using the pandemic to push these LTNs through.
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thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Not one bit of evidence to support any of the claims they’ve made there.
they've basically just said “oh no it isn’t”
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I think the only drunk is the poster. Not sure why in a lot of these styles of posts, they always mention that they are a cyclist but at the same time hating cycling or cyclists
teuchter
je suis teuchter
"Some of my best friends are cyclists"
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The report is now available here for your deconstruction.
The equity/equality bit starts from around page 31.
Prior to that, there's quite a good overview of the background to LTNs. It doesn't really bring up anything new - although on p21-23 they discuss the displacement effects observed in Walthamstow and try and put them in the context of longer-term traffic level measures. Frustrating for me is that we don't seem to be able to see what has happened between 2016 and now.
I don't disagree with this.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Could post the exact same response you've written about the article.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Whatever. I'm pretty sure theres actually some evidence to support every one of the myths in the Guardian list within the 108 pages of this thread.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
and just as much coming out to dispel them. The reporter is really going at it, he must have a new book coming out.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Like mine your road is doing its bit. This will be the new norm. How else will councillors get happy pictures of kids on bikes smiling.
Coldharbour also got hit with the LTN we had in LJ. Just one of those roads.
Coldharbour also got hit with the LTN we had in LJ. Just one of those roads.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
If you analyse the traffic levels on main roads in London adjacent to LTNs and compare it the levels of traffic seen on those same roads in 2019 (as I did last week) the rise in traffic on main roads adjacent to Low Traffic Neighbourhoods largely predates the introduction of LTNs and in many cases the traffic is still lower than the equivalent day in 2019.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Analyse how?
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