British Steel on the verge of collapse

[steeplejack]

There's still smaller steel plants in the Glasgow area, run by liberty steel. As best I can tell.

Small scale steel plate rollers / processors Clydebridge / Dalzell but they are embattled, and have been for at least the last two years.

Liberty Steel seems to want out / re-structure but the process has been dragging on an awful long time.

The very last vestige of steelmaking in Scotland. There's some history here of steelmaking in Coatbridge which was one of the unhealthiest and most difficult places to live in the nineteenth century, one of those sites remaining now Summerlee Industrial Museum which is a good afternoon out. The last big plant, Ravenscraig, was blown up in the early 90s- lots of hot air about what might replace it, but the land is still derelict and I think too contaminated for housing.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I heard a steel worker on R4 yesterday. Electric arc furnaces can only recycle steel, they cannot make steel from iron ore.

 

[steeplejack]

I heard a steel worker on R4 yesterday. Electric arc furnaces can only recycle steel, the cannot make steel from iron ore.

Correct hence the uproar. If we do lose Port Talbot, and Scunthorpe a little later, then we lose our ability to make steel from scratch i.e.from iron ore. The "business model" appears to be based on the fact that most of Britain's scrap steel is currently exported, presumably the aspiration is to keep much more of it and recycle via electric arc.

Not sure by what mechanism sellers can be compelled to sell to re-built Port Talbot or future refurbished Scunthorpe, incidentally. Wouldn't that be a hated intereference in the operation of "the market"?

As with everything with these clowns in government and indifferent overseas asset strippers picking clean the remaining carcasses of heavy industry, their pockets filled with our cash to do so, it's all back of a fag packet stuff which can be denied later when the site is levelled as the new furnaces are declared "not economic at this time".

The remains of the industry need to be nationalised and prioritised for future infrastructure projects. Of course Sunak & co. wouldn't even dream of doing that and very much doubt depite the good work of the Nic Dakins of this world that a Starmer government has any such intention either.

 

[Dogsauce]

very true- interesting history of Stocksbridge steel plant below, now owned by Liberty Steel.



As of 2020 there were just over 33000 jobs in UK steel. I'd wager in the 50s and 60s close to that number would have been employed by the defunct steelworks in Corby (former Stewart's and Lloyds) and in Scunthorpe alone.

Wasn’t Consett massive too? Closed around 1980 I think. Don’t think there’s anything left.

They’re always keen not to leave a trace when industry is eradicated - pit heads promptly demolished, cooling towers blown up, everything ploughed into the ground. No monuments allowed. A recent example that concrete tower at Redcar. If you’re lucky a shitty business park with minimum wage distribution centres might sit atop the rubble with a name that tenuously relates to the history of the site.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Wasn’t Consett massive too? Closed around 1980 I think. Don’t think there’s anything left.

They’re always keen not to leave a trace when industry is eradicated - pit heads promptly demolished, cooling towers blown up, everything ploughed into the ground. No monuments allowed. A recent example that concrete tower at Redcar. If you’re lucky a shitty business park with minimum wage distribution centres might sit atop the rubble with a name that tenuously relates to the history of the site.

Consett was huge, and important. There were others too: Ravenscraig, Sheffield, Rotherham, Llanwern etc. More on Consett here:

History of Consett Steelworks

Connecting the community with the past, sharing memories for the future

historyofconsettsteelworks.wordpress.com

In the Black Country there were around 10,000 directly employed and another 20,000 indirectly at 3 steelworks. As you say, once closed everything is then done to expunge them from collective memory.

In our case the only way you’d know steelmaking took place once are old gates on a roundabout, a weird structure on another and a small plaque in the massive shopping centre built remembering the third.

 

[steeplejack]

Yes usually some cheap pish relief sculpture at the Morrisons or H&M built on the site.

Llanwern was huge, a victim of Corus / Tata- must have closed at the end of the 90s. The rails made in Scunthorpe used to be made in Workington- there was once a saying "Workington Rails hold the world together". That place closed about 20 years ago and Workington rails are still made in Scunthorpe. There was an apocryphal tale of a delegation of soon to be retired / unemployed master railmakers visiting Scunthorpe and shaking their heads sadly at the early incomptenece of their successors at making the rails. All done and dusted now- the Workington site is a sodium lit / razor wire topped "investment zone" and / or derelict.

 

[tim]

I'm sure the people of Port Talbot will thank you for that contribution.

GBNewts might well offer you a contract on the strength of your contribution.

 

[Ranbay]

 

[1927]

GBNewts might well offer you a contract on the strength of your contribution.

How dare I question the jobs and lives of the Port Talbot workers over some minuscule reduction in global emissions.

 

[tim]

How dare I question the jobs and lives of the Port Talbot workers over some minuscule reduction in global emissions.

As I said, GBNewts is the place for you.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This a welcome, if limited, step forward. It’s right to say that no decsion should be be made before the election, and £3Bn is also good to see. But this needs to be start and not the limit of things:

 

[steeplejack]

This a welcome, if limited, step forward. It’s right to say that no decsion should be be made before the election, and £3Bn is also good to see. But this needs to be start and not the limit of things:

Yes, fair play

 

[planetgeli]

I see you got the memo from Tufton Street.

You don't have to be a climate change denier to recognize the hypocrisy of what is going on globally with Tata. They've made big noises (and been very careful with their words) about reducing CO2 emissions as the reason for these job cuts. But, as I said, they've been careful to use the words "in the UK" - while at the same time building a massive blast furnace in India that will increase their emissions.

It's greenwashing. It's about profits, not saving the world.

‘Hypocrisy’: Tata builds vast India furnace despite Port Talbot emissions claims

Owner says shutting Welsh blast furnaces will cut emissions, but it is opening a new one in India

www.theguardian.com

 

[1927]

You don't have to be a climate change denier to recognize the hypocrisy of what is going on globally with Tata. They've made big noises (and been very careful with their words) about reducing CO2 emissions as the reason for these job cuts. But, as I said, they've been careful to use the words "in the UK" - while at the same time building a massive blast furnace in India that will increase their emissions.

It's greenwashing. It's about profits, not saving the world.

‘Hypocrisy’: Tata builds vast India furnace despite Port Talbot emissions claims

Owner says shutting Welsh blast furnaces will cut emissions, but it is opening a new one in India

www.theguardian.com

Why bother keeping Port Talbot open at all?

 

[steeplejack]

what?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Why bother keeping Port Talbot open at all?

?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Today's warning of all out war with Russia is that conscription in the UK will be a thing. Since leaving the SAS I have become out of touch, but if we are to get stuck in to the 3rd World Swedge, would being able to produce our own steel not be handy?

 

[steeplejack]

 

[Chilli.s]

would being able to produce our own steel not be handy?

Its been said many times that for a country to go to war its essential to have its own supply of coal and steel, not sure if UK has either now

 

[1927]

Its been said many times that for a country to go to war its essential to have its own supply of coal and steel, not sure if UK has either now

Plenty of coal left, but ability to mine is has been lost due to environmental pressures. Not sure that coal is essential anymore, as ships aren't exactly running on steam power these days.

 

[Pickman's model]

Its been said many times that for a country to go to war its essential to have its own supply of coal and steel, not sure if UK has either now

It's essential to be able to mobilise men and money too and I don't suppose either sunak or shammer is really up to that

 

[planetgeli]

Tonight, BBC1, political drama by Michael Sheen, "The Way", set in Port Talbot and wider Wales.

About 'what could be...'.

It's already pissed off Badenoch and Lee Anderson is crying bias, so it's probably brilliant.

 

[urbanspaceman]

Its been said many times that for a country to go to war its essential to have its own supply of coal and steel, not sure if UK has either now

Well, it's possible to fight small expeditionary wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) without direct domestic access to basic materials. And I don't think that "big" wars will last long enough for any shortages at the front end of the supply chain to have any impact.

I've read articles suggesting that the tremendous expenditure rate of munitions, coupled with the amazing precision of modern weapons, would leave both sides in a big war devastated, depleted and combat-incapable after a week or two. Then it would be a matter of digging in, and finding some way of negotiating a truce, or else going nuclear, and proposed by Dmitri Medvedev over the weekend.

It's easy to underestimate the ferocity of the Ukraine war, which provides a foretaste of what a modern pan-European NATO vs Russia war might look like: but in just two years, limited to a tiny geographical area, and even with anomalously little aviation activity, Russia has lost about the same number of troops (400,000) as did either the UK or USA during the entirety of World War II.

Russia’s Medvedev threatens to nuke US, UK, Germany, Ukraine if Russia loses occupied territories

"Attempts to restore Russia's 1991 borders will lead only to one thing - a global war with Western countries with the use of our entire strategic (nuclear) arsenal against Kyiv, Berlin, London, and Washington. And against all other beautiful historic places that have long been included in the...

kyivindependent.com

 

[hitmouse]

Unite members being balloted for action now, events planned for Llanwern and Port Talbot on the 14th and 15th:
Support our steelworkers on the gates! Help get the vote out

Unite members are being balloted for industrial action to defend our steel industry. Let’s show them the people of South Wales are firmly on their side - join us on the gates.

 

[equationgirl]

Its been said many times that for a country to go to war its essential to have its own supply of coal and steel, not sure if UK has either now

We do have coal reserves, but since the last deep pit at Kellingly closed a few years back, I believe the pumps keeping the water out were switched off so it would be very costly to get that particular mine up and running again.

 

[DotCommunist]

We do have coal reserves, but since the last deep pit at Kellingly closed a few years back, I believe the pumps keeping the water out were switched off so it would be very costly to get that particular mine up and running again.

theres been a Welsh mine operating illegally for a year or more, so there must be some accessible reserves

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Very good piece drawing out the wider political, social and cultural impact of the decimation of work and working class communities in places like Port Talbot:

The collapse of Port Talbot’s steelworks is a death knell for industrial, working-class Britain | Keith Gildart

UK industrial towns offered not only well-paid jobs, but a whole working-class culture. A radical alternative is desperately needed, says former coalminer Keith Gildart

www.theguardian.com

 

[hitmouse]

Overtime ban started this week, all-out strike from July 8:
Tata workers call first strikes in 40 years to stop steel destruction

 

[steeplejack]

The Grauniad carries the story that the Chinese ownership of British Steel will ask the government for £600 million to invest in cleaner technology.

China-owned British Steel said to have requested £600m of taxpayer support

Company is looking for help from next government to upgrade to less polluting technology

www.theguardian.com

Sir Kieth has promised to invest £3 bn in steel once Labour are in government.

 

[hitmouse]

Strike paused for new talks between Unite and Tata:

Strike called off at Tata Steel’s Port Talbot site after talks offer

Move by union Unite paves way for negotiations with Indian-owned company over future of UK operations

www.ft.com

Unite statement here.