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Britain First

butchersapron said:
Don't you ever wonder why you always get this response on here taffboy? Don't you ever ever ask yourself what it is that you may be doing that invites the responses that you get?
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I don't have to wonder too much Butchers, I know.

I hope I'm not too obtuse in outlining what I'm getting at (and this is a serious point):

Reactionaries and their facilitators have, for at least a generation, constructed a series of doublethinks in order to obfuscate their hatred.
One of the main ones is that pointing out that racism may exist is "surpressing debate". The "you're suppressing debate" cannard is actually used to supress debate.

I think many progressives have fallen into a trap, too scared of their own shadows to say, for example, that an argument may be racist, or so fallacious as to be stupid. They often seem scared of being called "politically correct", another accusation that is used to surpress debate.

"Stupidity" is no heinous thing, we are all stupid in areas of our lives, but when it is applied to visceral hatred and bitterness it becomes fair game.
 
seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question.

As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.
 
to my mind, for a committed anti fash activist like taff says he is, surely its a counter productive thing just in terms of tactics? Forget that its shit for a minute- but in terms of tactics it gives the other side the opportunity to present your opposition as based on classist arrogance rather than opposition to racist and fascist politics. It makes no sense to fo it that way.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question.

As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.
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You haven't got a clue.
 
seventh bullet said:
You haven't got a clue.
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Yes I understand. I mustn't say that stupid racists are stupid or racist. But you can say I'm clueless if you think I'm clueless.

Maybe I'm one of the "fashionable metropolitan liberal elite" I keep hearing about, even though I own fuck all and wouldn't know fashion if it kicked me in the knackers.

To be clear on spelling, and we've done this ad infinitum on here as well, I don't give a flying fuck about spelling or grammar if a good point is made well. But groups like BF forever bang on about English this and English that, how appalling it is when other people don't use the language etc.

That's why it's fine to take the piss out of any mis-use of the language on their part, because of the vapid hypocrisy. Hypocrisy has long been a target for piss-taking and rightly so. How hard is that to understand?
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.
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Bourgeoise stupidity manifests itself in spelling mistakes, does it?

Britain Furst.

You Morans.

The only experience I have had of people having being satirised for their spelling has been when some wanker has been trying to portray them as being thicko-proles. Who should probably not speak unless they are spoken to.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
I don't have to wonder too much Butchers, I know.

I hope I'm not too obtuse in outlining what I'm getting at (and this is a serious point):

Reactionaries and their facilitators have, for at least a generation, constructed a series of doublethinks in order to obfuscate their hatred.
One of the main ones is that pointing out that racism may exist is "surpressing debate". The "you're suppressing debate" cannard is actually used to supress debate.

I think many progressives have fallen into a trap, too scared of their own shadows to say, for example, that an argument may be racist, or so fallacious as to be stupid. They often seem scared of being called "politically correct", another accusation that is used to surpress debate.

"Stupidity" is no heinous thing, we are all stupid in areas of our lives, but when it is applied to visceral hatred and bitterness it becomes fair game.
Click to expand...
This reply tells me that no, you don't know why you get the responses that you do. It also tells me that rather than engage in a little critical reflection you'd rather just paint yourself as a free speaking hero and others as moral and political cowards. This is politically useless, and on a personal level, pretty cowardly in itself. As seventh bullet says, no comrade of mine if you do this. And you have done it for at least the last 12 years.
 
Oh hang on, the last page of the thread makes sense now. You set up that 'Britain Furst' page. I should have thought as much. I'm being slow today.
 
CNT36 said:
1902889_521988814613051_65334331897467134_n.jpg
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cheers- I've not read any zinn except Peoples History of. Should probably rectify that
 
Fozzie Bear said:
Bourgeoise stupidity manifests itself in spelling mistakes, does it?

Britain Furst.

You Morans.

The only experience I have had of people having being satirised for their spelling has been when some wanker has been trying to portray them as being thicko-proles. Who should probably not speak unless they are spoken to.
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I had this out with a mate recently and made the same points as you but he responded that it stems from fascists' insistence that immigrants should learn English yet have yet to master it themselves. I still don't agree with it because it isn't a political argument but he did make me see that it isn't just attacking bad education without grounds.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question.

As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.
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This is one of your finest moments taffboy.
some egs on way off life
- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
- crap wether most of time
- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)
- maybe drink a lot
- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week
- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad
- think about muslims having sex with kids
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Looks like the bourgeoisie has been overlooked in favour of attacking what you think is the working class.
 
i'm in various dog groups on facebook, and a new britain first thing showed up today - a picture of an abused dog with some stuff about the bloke who got let off by the courts for doing the abuse. but this time it asked the reader to help stop this kind of thing happening again with a link to the britain first donate page. i wonder if that works for them?

i had a little moan about this on the page and no-one claimed that they knew BF were like that, so hopefully that's a few more people who weren't informed who have been.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Here we are again. Saying that bitter, stupid racists are bitter, stupid or racist is very very bad. Its politically correct, which means its politically wrong.

What we need to do is earnestly listen to the heartfelt concerns of hate filled racists and dupes, otherwise we are doing the work of the metropolitan liberal elite.
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Calling stupid people stupid is counter-productive, especially when you can, as an alternative, dissect their arguments in a way that clearly illustrates their stupidity. Pointing out flaws and inconsistencies has always worked better against the hard right than shouting "ooh, thickie Nazi slapheads!" at them Swappie-style.
 
DotCommunist said:
or you know, just not use someones intelligence or lack thereof as a stick to beat them when the vile politics give you a big enough stick already
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TBF, I think that some people believe that analysing and critiquing hard-right politics is beneath them, that all they have to do is shout "thickie", and they've done their job.
I've always been of the opinion that by doing the former, you are able to lead people to arrive at the latter conclusion.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Yes I understand. I mustn't say that stupid racists are stupid or racist. But you can say I'm clueless if you think I'm clueless.
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You're clueless because you don't even try to articulate why it's necessary to describe people as "stupid" when the most important charge is that they're racist.
There's also the issue whereby calling someone a "stupid racist" or "ignorant racist" means that some will read your description and will excuse the racism - after all, the racist is stupid, aren't they? They obviously don't know any better - and all because you had to vent your bile, rather than making a calm analysis.

Maybe I'm one of the "fashionable metropolitan liberal elite" I keep hearing about, even though I own fuck all and wouldn't know fashion if it kicked me in the knackers.
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It's not your possessions, it's your attitude. It stinks of condescension.

To be clear on spelling, and we've done this ad infinitum on here as well, I don't give a flying fuck about spelling or grammar if a good point is made well. But groups like BF forever bang on about English this and English that, how appalling it is when other people don't use the language etc.

That's why it's fine to take the piss out of any mis-use of the language on their part, because of the vapid hypocrisy. Hypocrisy has long been a target for piss-taking and rightly so. How hard is that to understand?
Click to expand...

You don't just use it as a target for piss-taking, you make it a fundamental part of your animus, which is an error. people of my grandparents' generation knew better. They knew that for every thug Mosleyite, there was an educated Mosleyite, that Mosley's middle-class supporters outnumbered his working class supporters, and that labelling them as stupid, ignorant or foolish was wrong-headed and transparently incorrect. Battling them on the physical and ideological level was what was important.
 
Two BF shares this week from Facebook friends. One was about a paeodo who got a light sentance, the other about MP's pay. The first deleted the post when I let him know about the dodginess of the organisation behind it, and I'm hoping the second guy will do the same. It seems that the 'popularity' of BF on Facebook stems more from their ability to produce memes that resonate widely with people, yet don't directly mention their underlying agenda. I doubt many people would 'like' them for their core beliefs.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...s_brick_lane_march_ends_in_violence_1_3613477 is the only reference I can see (usual procession of idiots in the comments).
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Interesting closing sentence to that article:
London24.com said:
Speaking today, David Crompton the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police said that the cost of policing far-right demonstrations in Rotherham is too high.
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...Possibly hinting at 'try this on my patch and you lot are on your own' maybe?
 
Ah Facebook
No tits but beheadings and Facisti aplenty
Trash
Deleted all my stuff on there a few years back
 
cynicaleconomy said:
Two BF shares this week from Facebook friends. One was about a paeodo who got a light sentance, the other about MP's pay. The first deleted the post when I let him know about the dodginess of the organisation behind it, and I'm hoping the second guy will do the same. It seems that the 'popularity' of BF on Facebook stems more from their ability to produce memes that resonate widely with people, yet don't directly mention their underlying agenda. I doubt many people would 'like' them for their core beliefs.
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My brother shared a D-day thing they put up early. Hopefully never looked/knew/cared where it came from.
 
Few BF posts shared onto my timeline about D-Day. I hate organisations hijacking these sort of events.

To me D-Day represents the best of humanity and self sacrifice and to have scumbags using it to whip up hate sickens me
 
RE: Britain First, are they a offshoot of the EDL?, will we see increasingly more radical break aways as the EDL decomposes, etc.
 
treelover said:
RE: Britain First, are they a offshoot of the EDL?, will we see increasingly more radical break aways as the EDL decomposes, etc.
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not by the look of it no, they're a project backed by one bloke out of NI. If you look at wiki theres info around how involved he and the people in the group were involved in the NI fleg protest stuff of last year
 
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