bristol indymedia: press release (pre-server seizure) (2)

[Sorry.]

No, you have chosen to ignore what I have repeatedly said. Clearly you are little bothered by what I say and are intent on 'shouting' me down at all costs and just shouting liar. Truth is irrelevant to you. You just dont like me and appear moe interested in harrasment than discussion.

edit.

I know I have been truthfull. If you are convinced I have lied, fine, if others are fine, if others are not, fine. I see little point in attempting to convince you.

It's not a matter of me being convinced or not Zaskar, the FACT that you have lied is on that thread in black and white for all to see. To state otherwise just marks you out as some sort of bizarre fantasist.

 

[bristol_citizen]

You sir are a fool as your predictably obsessive and vulgar posts have shown repeatedly.

Am I on the Noel Coward thread by mistake?

 

[Zaskar]

I have not lied.

If you think I have, fair enough.

I am not responsible for post by other people (obvoiusly ! )

You boys really are starting to go round in circles.

Like the noel coward quip.

Instead of all sqwaking on about what a fibber i am and how nasty and horrid i am, with nary a word of caution for some of those others would anyone actually be interested in debating anything interesting ?

I really dont wnat to carry on parrying insults or giving any back. It's just nasty and hurtfull. I dont mind admitting I am hurt and upset by some of the thoughtless jibes at me.

You that persist in this attack are adding nothing to this talk board or to the discussion at hand. You are causing me distress. If that is youre aim, you have suceeded. Now please stop.

 

[bristol_citizen]

You are causing me distress.

And what do you think the member of BIMC under threat of being charged with obstructing the course of justice is feeling?
Why should we give a toss about you. You don't give a toss about anyone. Why don't you leave us alone?

 

[Zaskar]

And what do you think the member of BIMC under threat of being charged with obstructing the course of justice is feeling?
Why should we give a toss about you. You don't give a toss about anyone. Why don't you leave us alone?

Umm, well if they have the IPs of the crims, then clearly they should be handed over. I am not stopping them, I didnt drop the rocks, I didnt leave the post up, I wasnt the only one who reported it. Are you there yet....

In allowing the post up in the first place no offence was commited. Clearly if they had the IP then quickly wiped it once the police contacted them they may have committed an offence. If the IP was wiped automatically as they would have us all believe then no offence has been committed.

This and similar events that have often occured throughout the imc movement raise interesting questions about criminal responsibility and about when information should be shared and under what circumstances it can be with held.

 

[butchersapron]

Did the move to expel zaskar from the NUJ happen?

 

[Zaskar]

Did the move to expel zaskar from the NUJ happen?

No. And it wont will it......

What is clear to me from this unfortunate incident is that BIM need to talk to the police about what they provide and how it is used by people.

Just becuase the police reasnobly ask for information regarding a seroius crime (with no defense or clear rationale) it really is quite ridiculous for BIM to start sqwaking on about 'freedom of the press' and start insisting they are fighting some principles action by refusing to assist the police to catch these dangerous people.

It really is a bit more complicated than that isnt it.

Think it through.

BIM is a very intersting resource but imho the people who posted news of thier dangerous crime abused the site. Clearly many feel that I acted rashley in alerting the police to their (the crims) dangerous actions.

What followed is a result of the decisions made by many parties.

I for one will continue to report crimes such as this, dangerous actions with no clear gain for any activist cause, an action that could have killed someone FFS ! This includes postings of violent and pointless crime, defending people from muggers in the street, watching out for my neighbours, and helping old ladies across the road. Call me old fashioned but I think if we all took more care of eachother instead of thinking selfishly our communities and streets would be safer. You may also think me not 'a la mode' in my belief that the police are not our enemies.

My position is that if BIM have the IP then they should give it to the police. If they dont then the matter is ended.

I understnd no one was actually hurt but i bet the train driver has been very shaken up by this shocking incident.

 

[butchersapron]

I think it might actually. In fact, i'm sure it will. (Why you carry a NUJ card i don't know).

Still no one is buying your attempts to cover up for what you did. I think your motivation has ben adequately and clearly established, Notice how no one is agreeing with you other than your mates.

 

[DaveCinzano]

zaskar, did you make reports to the police regarding posts on indymedia whilst you were, so to speak, 'on the inside'?

 

[butchersapron]

...and have you ever reported anyone that you've filmed? Would you?

 

[bristol_citizen]

I think it might actually. In fact, i'm sure it will. (Why you carry a NUJ card i don't know).

Still no one is buying your attempts to cover up for what you did. I think your motivation has ben adequately and clearly established, Notice how no one is agreeing with you other than your mates.

NUJ code of conduct is http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=59 .
I think he might have problems under section 2, 3 and especially 7.
"My position is that if BIM have the IP then they should give it to the police."
So an NUJ member proposes that journalists hand over information about anonymous sources?
You couldn't make it up...

 

[Zaskar]

zaskar, did you make reports to the police regarding posts on indymedia whilst you were, so to speak, 'on the inside'?

No, I assume that is a flippant question. The last brush I had with the police befor this incident was for speeding on my scoot, the time befor that was a threat of arrest if i didnt stop filming.

edit.

However if circumstances are repeated, ie a vilent and dangerous crime is posted in a public forum then I would do the same again.

It is ridiculous to place this in the context of 'grassing' activists as many of you have. These people could have killed someone, they discredited BIM with their post and by implication put all users of hte site under suspicion of commiting this dangerous criminal act.

I really do weary of the same insutls and stupid accusations beijng repeated over and over by the same people.

 

[Zaskar]

NUJ code of conduct is http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=59 .
I think he might have problems under section 2, 3 and especially 7.
"My position is that if BIM have the IP then they should give it to the police."
So an NUJ member proposes that journalists hand over information about anonymous sources?
You couldn't make it up...

Your dogma is as admirable as it is mis placed. I carry a press card as it helps me to cope with unwanted police attention when I am filming stuff.

Do keep us informed of your progress.

 

[butchersapron]

I think you'll be informed, don't worry.

 

[DaveCinzano]

No, I assume that is a flippant question. The last brush I had with the police befor this incident was for speeding on my scoot, the time befor that was a threat of arrest if i didnt stop filming.

no, it wasn't a flippant question. the post you reported was - in my opinion - by no means the most encouraging or reflective of 'violence' that's ever been on indymedia. why did you not report earlier posts reporting on/'inciting' violent behaviour? what's changed?

and i also note that you haven't really said yes or no. 'brush with the law' implies the police coming to you, not the other way around.

 

[Zaskar]

I think you'll be informed, don't worry.

You really are quite confused about the code arent you ? Have you ever actually read a newspaper?

Good luck.

 

[butchersapron]

no, it wasn't a flippant question. the post you reported was - in my opinion - by no means the most encouraging or reflective of 'violence' that's ever been on indymedia. why did you not report earlier posts reporting on/'inciting' violent behaviour? what's changed?

and i also note that you haven't really said yes or no. 'brush with the law' implies the police coming to you, not the other way around.

He also claimed to have been talking to them about a stabbing 'some time' before (after trying to pretend that it was about the ones in Easton week before last) - it gets difficult keeping track doesn't it?

 

[butchersapron]

You really are quite confused about the code arent you ? Have you ever actually read a newspaper?

Good luck.

Of course not. What an odd question. What an odd comment - you don't think that you'd be informed by the union if proceedings to expel you were put in place? And i think they will.

 

[Zaskar]

no, it wasn't a flippant question. the post you reported was - in my opinion - by no means the most encouraging or reflective of 'violence' that's ever been on indymedia. why did you not report earlier posts reporting on/'inciting' violent behaviour? what's changed?

and i also note that you haven't really said yes or no. 'brush with the law' implies the police coming to you, not the other way around.

Jeepers that is paranoid. I am and continue to be under the gaze of the police for my film work. I have been threatened by the police on numerous occasions when filming. That is quite clearly what I mean. Jesus......

This is just becoming comedic.

 

[Zaskar]

Of course not. What an odd question. What an odd comment - you don't think that you'd be informed by the union if proceedings to expel you were put in place? And i think they will.

No, actually I would be, all the way.

 

[butchersapron]

Jeepers that is paranoid. I am and continue to be under the gaze of the police for my film work. I have been threatened by the police on numerous occasions when filming. That is quite clearly what I mean. Jesus......

This is just becoming comedic.

You skipped my question;

...and have you ever reported anyone that you've filmed? Would you?

bearing in mind your brutal honesty and all that...can we have an answer?

 

[butchersapron]

No, actually I would be, all the way.

So why your ridiculous repsonse to me saying that? Don't bother.

 

[Zaskar]

You skipped my question;

...and have you ever reported anyone that you've filmed? Would you?

bearing in mind your brutal honesty and all that...can we have an answer?

NO. I really think you are a bit mad, either that or this just meets some need for you that i cant divine.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Jeepers that is paranoid.

make your mind up - is it acceptable to throw around insults or not?

it's not paranoid, it's entirely reasonable to note your refusall to answer a simple question with a simple yes or no.

especially given your somewhat supercilious comment in regard of the bim press statement:

'Finely honed legal documents' are rarely the preserve of fact and full disclosure..... Are they ?

see here

please stop being evasive.

 

[butchersapron]

NO. I really think you are a bit mad, either that or this just meets some need for you that i cant divine.

Ah, see you have. Does anyone believe you? How can you argue that you wouldn't after your posts here? How can anyone trust you?

edit hew!

 

[DaveCinzano]

NO. I really think you are a bit mad, either that or this just meets some need for you that i cant divine.

again with the insults.

have you ever been approached by the police in regards of 'helping get rid of the bad apples in the activist basket'? you know, the fringe nutters who let the side down?

have you ever been approached by special branch?

if so - to either question - what did you say/do in response?

have you ever handed over, shown or in any other way shared your 'activist' footage with the police, or other agencies?

 

[butchersapron]

..and would you...bearing in mind your honesty....

 

[Zaskar]

again with the insults.

have you ever been approached by the police in regards of 'helping get rid of the bad apples in the activist basket'? you know, the fringe nutters who let the side down?

have you ever been approached by special branch?

if so - to either question - what did you say/do in response?

have you ever handed over, shown or in any other way shared your 'activist' footage with the police, or other agencies?

My lord what on earth is all this.

No. No on all counts. NO NO No..... Thats no absloutly not.

This is a gag right.....

But for the record if i ever filmed a serouis crime, like someone getting raped, mugged and stuff, yes clearly I would help the police. Wouldnt anyone in these circumstances.

 

[butchersapron]

My lord what on earth is all this.

No. No on all counts. NO NO No..... Thats no absloutly not.

This is a gag right.....

But for the record if i ever filmed a serouis crime, like someone getting raped, mugged and stuff, yes clearly I would help the police. Wouldnt anyone in these circumstances.

But you've already said that it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing - you'll report them for whatever you want to. Doesn't this clash with your 'no' on here? (The answer is yes btw).

 

[Zaskar]

But you've already said that it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing - you'll report them for whatever you want to. Doesn't this clash with your 'no' on here? (The answer is yes btw).

NO. Your an idiot arent you. I weary of this now.

I have no further comments to make. You motivations are poor.