Brian Paddick for Mayor

[Guineveretoo]

No idea. But if the route takes the bus up the ramp at Waterloo to the main entrance, I know I've never seen a double-decker up there. Whether it's the height of the roof up there or the weight displacement on the evelavated section, I dunno.

There's also that low bridge at the bridge end of Westminster Bridge Road.

Maybe a weight displacement issue at Victoria if it went via Ecclestone or Elizebeht Street bridges . . .

Not an engineer or black cabbie or work for TFL.

It goes the same route as several other buses which are double deckers. At no point does it go under a low bus.

 

[butchersapron]

Are you backing his support for Ian Blair Guineveretoo?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Are you backing his support for Ian Blair Guineveretoo?

give hima chance to take his blinkers off butchers.

 

[gaijingirl]

give hima chance to take his blinkers off butchers.

Her!

 

[London_Calling]

It goes the same route as several other buses which are double deckers. At no point does it go under a low bus.

Okay, but have you ever seen a doubler-decker on the approach ramp and at the main entrance to Waterloo Station?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Her!

Whoops apologies for the change of gender

 

[maximilian ping]

1. I think buses are pretty disgusting places to travel in these days - they rival the tube for hot, uncomfortable, crowded bung holes. bendy buses are totally impossible to sit comfortably in and the other buses have got fucked up windows which let no air in.

2. I think crime/policing needs a radical shake up. we need to go New York style - cops on the beat eating burgers, chatting to residents, getting an idea of a community rather than strolling around like aliens. show the drug dealers some muscle, show them whose boss and they are less likely to be so cocky in public area.

3. Ken ain't great: The best things Ken has done is congestion charge and insult Standard journo. The worst is: fail to improve tube, bum lick Met over handling of Menezes.

4. But he's the best we got: Paddick and Boris wouldnt have a clue how to run a city. one's just an ex-copper and the other is a charmless dumb toff

 

[JHE]

2. I think crime/policing needs a radical shake up. we need to go New York style - cops on the beat eating burgers, chatting to residents, getting an idea of a community rather than strolling around like aliens. show the drug dealers some muscle, show them whose boss and they are less likely to be so cocky in public area.

There isn't much strolling around at all, with or without burger, alien-like or humanoid-style, is there? I thought 'beat policing' went out of fashion many years ago.

Your proposal on dealing with drug dealers - a crack-down, as some would call it - would win quite a lot of votes, but there'd be riots too, I reckon.

 

[Crispy]

And you'd have to couple it with a continuous prison building program.

 

[beeboo]

How does the system work with the voting for Mayor, with this second preference thing?

I'm concerned that Paddick will appeal to disillusioned would-be Livingstone supporters, split the vote and we'll end up with Boris. Or does the system mitigate against that happening?

 

[detective-boy]

I thought 'beat policing' went out of fashion many years ago.

It's actually come back in, officially. With the newly invented Safer Neighbourhood Teams - a Sergeant, a couple of PCs and a handful of PCSOs dedicated to every single ward ONLY to be used for community beat policing ...

Unfortunately no one has told them that means (a) walking, (b) talking to people and (c) taking responsibility for crimes on their areas (even if an emergency response by a 24hr team is initially required and the individual crime is passed to CID for investigation). I have no idea at all why it is still so rare to see any uniformed patrol, apart from the odd PCSO (usually in pairs or more).

Seeing as Ken has committed large amounts of Londoner's money to this project, he would be well-advised to start asking a few difficult questions about where the fuck the beat officers are, not in theory but in practice. (You listening, Mr Jasper?)

 

[Guineveretoo]

Okay, but have you ever seen a doubler-decker on the approach ramp and at the main entrance to Waterloo Station?

Not sure what you are trying to prove, but there is no part of the 507 route which is not also covered by a double decker bus.

 

[maximilian ping]

And you'd have to couple it with a continuous prison building program.

i certainly wouldnt throw them in jail. waste o money. i would say give them a bit of a kicking (when they havent got guns Brit police are a bit wimpy when it comes to gangs of dealers) and if they carry on there are many alternatives to jail which can be constructive to community/offenders

 

[London_Calling]

As far as I'm aware, I'm not trying to prove anything, just asking for an answer to a question.

 

[maximilian ping]

I thought 'beat policing' went out of fashion many years ago.
QUOTE]

how can the government/local authorities/police forces say they give a shit about local people's safety and crime if they don't have lots officers on the beat?

beats me

 

[JHE]

It's actually come back in, officially. With the newly invented Safer Neighbourhood Teams - a Sergeant, a couple of PCs and a handful of PCSOs dedicated to every single ward ONLY to be used for community beat policing ...

Unfortunately no one has told them that means (a) walking, (b) talking to people and (c) taking responsibility for crimes on their areas (even if an emergency response by a 24hr team is initially required and the individual crime is passed to CID for investigation). I have no idea at all why it is still so rare to see any uniformed patrol, apart from the odd PCSO (usually in pairs or more).

Seeing as Ken has committed large amounts of Londoner's money to this project, he would be well-advised to start asking a few difficult questions about where the fuck the beat officers are, not in theory but in practice. (You listening, Mr Jasper?)

Good point - and I hope it works out. Lots of people have been calling for the return of 'bobbies on the beat' for as long as I can remember.

I do see the PCSOs around in some places - and sometimes I feel sorry for them, too. Not long ago I visted Nottingham and saw two uniformed non-plods patrolling together. One was a PCSO, I think, and the other was some sort of warden employed by the council, I think. They both had police-type clothes, but were definitely not police or traffic wardens. A small bunch of pissed up twits started jeering at and abusing the pair as they walked past. What did these uniformed wotsits do? What could they do? They just carried on walking as if they hadn't noticed.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Hang on, I'll just pop out to see.

I dunno, central south, London Bridge station and area to general Waterloo area maybe. North; bottom of Kingsland Road.

If you're seriously saying double-decker's haven't limited the route options in central London, then . . . good luck with it.

so none of these routes then...

who the fuck made you londons transport arbitor anyways...

 

[Bob]

How does the system work with the voting for Mayor, with this second preference thing?

I'm concerned that Paddick will appeal to disillusioned would-be Livingstone supporters, split the vote and we'll end up with Boris. Or does the system mitigate against that happening?

Everyone's first preference votes are counted. Then everyone but the top two are eliminated.

Then the second preference votes of all the people whose first choices didn't get to the final round are counted.

So if the vote went:
Livingstone 45
Johnson 55
Paddick 50

Then the final round would be Paddick vs Johnson and the second preferences of Livingstone would get redistributed. Since on average Labour voters are closer in political opinions to Lib Dem than Labour then you'd expect most of those second choices to go to Paddick, who would win.

So the system is actually much less likely to allow a candidate you don't like in by the back door.

Effectively it's very unlikely that a Conservative candidate will ever get enough second preferences to beat Livingstone. A Lib Dem could because they'd get a good chunk of the green and Conservative second preferences.

 

[beeboo]

Everyone's first preference votes are counted. Then everyone but the top two are eliminated.

Then the second preference votes of all the people whose first choices didn't get to the final round are counted.

So if the vote went:
Livingstone 45
Johnson 55
Paddick 50

Then the final round would be Paddick vs Johnson and the second preferences of Livingstone would get redistributed. Since on average Labour voters are closer in political opinions to Lib Dem than Labour then you'd expect most of those second choices to go to Paddick, who would win.

So the system is actually much less likely to allow a candidate you don't like in by the back door.

Effectively it's very unlikely that a Conservative candidate will ever get enough second preferences to beat Livingstone. A Lib Dem could because they'd get a good chunk of the green and Conservative second preferences.

Thanks Bob - that actually seems like a reasonably fair system.

Although you can see why it'd be popular with Lib Dem supporters

 

[keicar]

Effectively it's very unlikely that a Conservative candidate will ever get enough second preferences to beat Livingstone. A Lib Dem could because they'd get a good chunk of the green and Conservative second preferences.

You could well be right. About the only way Johnson could win is if he gets a very good 1st round vote- that would mean all the Tories in suburbia turning out to vote.

If Paddick gets to round two, I'd fancy his chances. But that isn't gonna be easy.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Then the final round would be Paddick vs Johnson and the second preferences of Livingstone would get redistributed. Since on average Labour voters are closer in political opinions to Lib Dem than Labour then you'd expect most of those second choices to go to Paddick, who would win.

Yep. He's going to get my second preference if he runs (sorry Greens but this Boris guy looks like he might actually pick up some votes)...

 

[detective-boy]

how can the government/local authorities/police forces say they give a shit about local people's safety and crime if they don't have lots officers on the beat?

There are lots of arguments that beat officers "feel" good but don't actually achieve very much ... or, to be rather more accurate, there are no / few statistics which demonstrate what the presence of beat officers actually DOES in terms of measurable outcomes (crime prevention impact being effectively unmeasurable). (ETA: And there's a hoary old chesnut about a patrolling officer only coming across a crime once every 27 years ... which sounds to me like bollocks)

There are also lots of arguments about carrying out targetted surveillance on particular suspects and / or working hard on reactive enquiries to catch and put away bad guys after the event, all of which need (lots of) officers.

 

[maximilian ping]

yes i think beat policing would be fairly unmeasurable - but what is undeniable is that the more police strolling about (rather than racing past in a car) the safer people are and the more risky it is to do crime.

i remember Channel 4 came up with some half-baked story a few years ago about how stats show beat cops are completely useless. unfortunately i think it was actually quite influential and resulted in a reduction of beat cops. its one of those stories - like Guardian saying 1 in every 3 women have been given date rape drug - that you know is bollox from just living a life/common sense/knowing more than 2 people.

i think one of the floors with the New York-style policing that i want is that there are not enough black and asian cops over here, which makes it harder to do in some areas

 

[tarannau]

yes i think beat policing would be fairly unmeasurable - but what is undeniable is that the more police strolling about (rather than racing past in a car) the safer people are and the more risky it is to do crime.

I don't think that's really true at all. This w/e there were plenty of police around Brixton, piled out of meatwagons everywhere, yet shots were still fired right in the middle of the street. Similarly every day criminals, dealers and desperate punters can be see wandering around past ever increasing numbers of 'beat' coppers without any hesitation.

And IME, beat coppers do jack all. They may add a falsely reassuring veneer of respectability, but I've never seen one of them actually stop a criminal - there's a supposed preventative effect I guess, but otherwise they'll still be calling for support like other officers. It's illuminating that my old housemate chased down his girlfriend's mugger for over 2 miles, running past a number of policemen on the way. The police were so impressed that he actually caught the crook that they took him on a grand tour of the station and a drive round in a squad car!

 

[maximilian ping]

yes well piling out of meatwagons and ignoring everything around them is not the beat cops i have in mind. i have in mind cops who know as much about the characters/gang chain of command/signature crimes of an area as anyone else. that usually involves talking to people and being trusted by people. obviously not too much of this going on in your neck o woods

 

[chymaera]

Similarly every day criminals, dealers and desperate punters can be see wandering around past ever increasing numbers of 'beat' coppers without any hesitation.

But do any members of the honest citizenry complain about all the blind police officers to a senior police officer?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

But do any members of the honest citizenry complain about all the blind police officers to a senior police officer?

whyt he fuck would you... you'd simply end up being fitted up or in some attempt to fit you up...

it's ntoible that more than at any other time in my life my latest car get's stopped weekly by the piggies for doing nothing more than drivng along the road it's taxed and tested and i'm licenced to drive on...

their first reaction every time to the car with blacked out windows ... oh we thought you were black and looked up to no good...

with such descernment in the met why the hell would they every bother with real criminals... all they need to to is get the darkies down the nick and apply a bit of pressure on them to confess and volia the crime rates are cleared up...

or perhaps we should finally see that these tools of the state are utterly with out merit and are by design a method of supression of ordinary decent people, regardless of ethnicity or previous action...

 

[beeboo]

And IME, beat coppers do jack all. They may add a falsely reassuring veneer of respectability, but I've never seen one of them actually stop a criminal - there's a supposed preventative effect I guess, but otherwise they'll still be calling for support like other officers.

It depends whether you see reassuring people as an outcome in itself. In general, fear of crime is out of all proportion to actual risk of crime.

Lots of research has been done which backs up the idea that the more people see a police presence on the street, the safer they feel.

From my understanding, beat policing and PCSOs has improved local knowledge. I don't however know to what end that knowledge is being used.

 

[detective-boy]

From my understanding, beat policing and PCSOs has improved local knowledge. I don't however know to what end that knowledge is being used.

I would be interested to see some data to back that up. In my experience I have seen little actual evidence of that at all - yes, PCSOs are out there; yes, there is some suggestion that people are happier to talk to them than to PCs but I have seen nothing which confirms whether or not they are being told more or, if they are, whether that is being translated into organisational knowledge. I have also seen an awful lot of the better PCSOs become police officers within 12-18 months of joining (it is now a recognised route in), so I would also like to see some data on how long they stay in one area to become "known".

 

[bluestreak]

Open your fucking eyes the man is a dangerous arse licking autocrat. He is nothing like the brave defender of London govt that he was in the 80's. He is an utter sleazeball and so are those who take his shilling.

you know, i disagree with you, i think the game has changed a lot since the 80s, and many of the worst decisions have been foisted upon him - PFI for the underground, the olympics etc. he spoke out on PFI all the time and has hardly thrown his full support into the olympics apart from trotting out the party line now and again. damning with faint praise i believe they call it.

as a figurehead politician he proved himself post-7/7 and as a battling politician he has supported many of the causes i myself support, and as an occasional pain in the arse of the labout party he has proved himself, and i personally would vote to keep him. high praise indeed from me, as i don't vote out of principle normally.

back to the subject in hand. i think brian would have done better as an independent. but he won't win. he's everything the right hate - a gay who doesn't hide it, a traffic cop, someone who doesn't think that cannabis leads to aneurysm and race war, and generally dixon rather than robocop.