Tweets from ex-Mayor of Lambeth mock ‘hairy arabs, Muslim women and big black men’

[edcraw]

Not sure what is meant by this - what point’s trying to be meant? Makes it seem like a Labour factional thing more than anything. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t get it.

All followers can search his tweets still.

Tagging editor so as not to sub(forum)tweet.

 

[Gramsci]

This just arrived.

 

[BusLanes]

I see from Twitter Ed Davie, who had to lock his account after wading into the Philip Normal saga, got selected to run in his current/new ward. Although I also heard he tried to get selected in two other wards first, so I guess bad luck to third place ward?

 

[Gramsci]

I see from Twitter Ed Davie, who had to lock his account after wading into the Philip Normal saga, got selected to run in his current/new ward. Although I also heard he tried to get selected in two other wards first, so I guess bad luck to third place ward?

That's Cllr "scrutiny" Ed.

https://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2016/06/local-residents-question-the-role-of-objective-lambeth-scrutiny-chair-cllr-ed-davie-over-cressingham-gardens/?s=09

 

[edcraw]

What does any of this have to do with Phillip Normal? Seems pretty poor to leap on this all for some Labour party bloodletting.

 

[cuppa tee]

That's Cllr "scrutiny" Ed.

https://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2016/06/local-residents-question-the-role-of-objective-lambeth-scrutiny-chair-cllr-ed-davie-over-cressingham-gardens/?s=09

....that page doesn’t exist on my browser.

this does though.... Local residents question role of ‘objective’ Lambeth Scrutiny Chair Cllr Ed Davie over Cressingham Gardens

 

[BusLanes]

What does any of this have to do with Phillip Normal? Seems pretty poor to leap on this all for some Labour party bloodletting.

He commented on the Normal situation when people asked why Labour did not pick up on Normal's twitter history but did vet other Labour candidates for lesser issues (like commenting on estates policy). He then locked his account after doing so because he got a lot of pushback yesterday and then got selected yesterday evening after all of that.

So there is a link. No one's accusing him of bad behaviour along the lines of Philip Normal. It is more than he inserted himself into the twitter discussion and so we started talking about it.

He would have done better to say nothing and just let his boss's statement do the talking.

 

[Lurdan]

I just came across this, which is a bit of a shock, as Philip Normal is someone I used to bumped into at venues like the Retro Bar or the Vauxhall Tavern. Not a friend but an acquaintance and we'd often have a chat. Very camp, dressed outrageously but with great style, lots of of charm, funny and incredibly ambitions. He would look over your shoulder while talking to you, to see if someone more important has entered the room and then drop you like a hot potato but you could never be mad at him. I was pleased for him when his business took off, he worked hard and he is genuinely talented. I was very surprised when I learned that he went into politics but he seemed to be doing well.

Not that this excuses racism or islamophobia but at the time when Philip made these tweets, he would not have seen himself as someone of privilege or power who is kicking down. If you are a working class, somewhat dweeby looking and very camp gay kid who dresses flamboyantly, you are going to get a lot of shit. I'm sorry to say, that's especially the case in places which have large Muslim and black populations. That of course doesn't make it right to hit out at other communities as a response, especially so publicly and then it's more than dumb to leave all of that up when you go into politics. I bet he'd forgotten he ever tweeted that.

There are later tweets held up as "evidence" like the "TRANNY" one, where I know the person who he is addressing (#dawnrightnasty) and what the in-joke and context is and I know that's not him being transphobic. I'm afraid "tranny" is a term which was in use in much of the gay community till quite recently and could also refer to drag queens and transvestites, not just to transwomen. With the emergence of the transrights movement, it became an unacceptable term, as RuPaul found out quite publicly to his regret in 2014 (also around the time of Philip Normal's tweet). That led to a debate and the term mostly stopped being used within the LGBT+ community.

Trial by social media is never nuanced. A public person will always be judged on a few words dumb words they twittered years ago, when they weren't known and knew a lot less, even if they have grown into a wiser human being since then. Philip certainly shouldn't have written what he did, but I remember myself at that age. Being irreverent, outrageous and yes, tasteless can be a part of gay culture, just look at the career of John Waters. Sometimes that can go wrong, especially when you are young and you have to learn where to draw the line. I'm glad there wasn't Twitter when I was his age, I too might have disgraced myself after a drunken night out in a failed bid to be edgy, only for it to bite me in the arse years later.

I've never met the guy but I recognised the style of some of the remarks and could guess at the possible context for some of them. (The use of the term Tranny for example). But other tweets have been posted suggesting that his 'style' of acid outrageousness has also been employed against local campaigners and some of the customers of his business, which to me seems textbook 'punching down'. However the stuff which resonates really negatively with me is the stuff about Muslims. (The one characterizing Tower Hamlets as 'aggressively Muslim' is the one that sticks in my craw for some reason).

Does anyone else feel a bit ambivalent about this? Like, I don't know much about the guy's actual record as a politician, he seems like a dick and finding out that he's 39 definitely makes it worse, but at the same time, I feel a bit uneasy with stuff from like 2009-2010 being dug up as evidence? As with the recent thread bump on here, I suppose. Although admittedly, 2013/2014 is a fair bit more up to date.
Anyway, I suppose what I'm wondering about is whether there's anything to show him expressing the same or similar views within the last seven years or so, or if having been a shit at one point in your life (and not being smart enough to delete old posts) disqualifies you forever? If this was his career being ended by what he's actually been like as a politician I'd be fine with it, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening?

Thread bump? puzzled

The guy 'has a mouth on him' so it's entirely possible he himself pissed someone off enough to do some research about him. Or this might have been started by someone who doesn't like his partner, who I believe is still interim Director of Communications for 'Sick Here'. Or by someone who doesn't like the faction of the Labour Party either of them is associated with, or the Labour Party in general. Or many other possibilities.

Politics is, always has been, and always will be, a dirty business. Imagining that some combination of legal sanctions and agreed standards of ethics, or 'can't we all play nicely', will change that is, in my opinion, not just utopian, it is also acts to avoid addressing the nature and function of capitalist politics and capitalist democracy.

Philip Normal was part of the electable face of neoliberalism in Lambeth. Are you uneasy about Darren Grime's past utterances being used against him? If not what's the difference?

 

[Leighsw2]

Think this twitter thread sums up everything that's wrong with Lambeth Labour:

 

[Pickman's model]

Think this twitter thread sums up everything that's wrong with Lambeth Labour:

No it doesn't. There's more wrong with them than that

 

[edcraw]

Think this twitter thread sums up everything that's wrong with Lambeth Labour:

I’m really not aware of the ins and outs of Labour factions but isn’t the difference that Phillip Normal stood as a candidate in 2018 and that the vetting procedure has obviously been stepped up massively since then?

 

[ouirdeaux]

I'm a bit surprised how little attention is being given to his dubious business practices, as evidenced by customers and those he's worked with. There's always a bit of wiggle room as to how much an idiotic tweet can be used as evidence for bad character, but there's no excuse for ripping people off.

 

[editor]

I’m really not aware of the ins and outs of Labour factions but isn’t the difference that Phillip Normal stood as a candidate in 2018 and that the vetting procedure has obviously been stepped up massively since then?

Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[edcraw]

Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

I'm not

 

[Gramsci]

I’m really not aware of the ins and outs of Labour factions but isn’t the difference that Phillip Normal stood as a candidate in 2018 and that the vetting procedure has obviously been stepped up massively since then?

I'm surprised at this post. Your a regular poster here. Are you not aware of how Lambeth council operates? Plenty of articles on it in Brixton buzz and discussion here.

 

[Gramsci]

The issue is that "vetting" in Lambeth was about keeping those who weren't New Labour out.

 

[Reno]

I'm a bit surprised how little attention is being given to his dubious business practices, as evidenced by customers and those he's worked with. There's always a bit of wiggle room as to how much an idiotic tweet can be used as evidence for bad character, but there's no excuse for ripping people off.

I agree, that would worry me more than the tweets. I believe he had supply problems when he couldn't keep up with the La. T-Shirts and it says so on his website. But ripping people off who do work for you is not a great look for someone getting into politics.

 

[edcraw]

I'm surprised at this post. Your a regular poster here. Are you not aware of how Lambeth council operates? Plenty of articles on it in Brixton buzz and discussion here.

I'm aware of how a lot of posters and Buzz think they operate. Not sure I believe all of it. Seems all to be coming from a very Corbynite view point.

 

[edcraw]

Anyway, others have summed this up a lot better than me, but the tweets were truly awful and he's resigned don't see what it has to do with Labour internal politics.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyway, others have summed this up a lot better than me, but the tweets were truly awful and he's resigned don't see what it has to do with Labour internal politics.

you should take a trip to specsavers

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm surprised at this post. Your a regular poster here.

sadly being a regular poster here doesn't mean they've decent politics or the ability to think

 

[edcraw]

sadly being a regular poster here doesn't mean they've decent politics or the ability to think

What do you know about my politics? Seems like if you don't have the same view as certain posters & Buzz there's no room for you here.

Again what has politics got to do with this? Seems like people trying to settle scores and gloat rather than take a very serious issue seriously.

 

[Pickman's model]

What do you know about my politics? Seems like if you don't have the same view as certain posters & Buzz there's no room for you here.

Again what has politics got to do with this? Seems like people trying to settle scores and gloat rather than take a very serious issue seriously.

i don't know which posters you're talking about, but i don't align myself with buzz. and i don't feel you're taking this issue seriously.

but just take for example your post above

I'm aware of how a lot of posters and Buzz think they operate. Not sure I believe all of it. Seems all to be coming from a very Corbynite view point.

doesn't fill me with confidence in your politics, to put it mildly. the way you're posting makes me wonder if you think racism is something for which people should be held to account.

oh and i'm not a corbynite btw

 

[edcraw]

. the way you're posting makes me wonder if you think racism is something for which people should be held to account.

?

 

[editor]

I'm aware of how a lot of posters and Buzz think they operate. Not sure I believe all of it. Seems all to be coming from a very Corbynite view point.

"Think" they operate? We just go by the facts. And what the fuck has Corbyn got to do with this? How's he responsible for what's happened in the Oval ward or Jack Hopkins suddenly resigning/ disappearing?

And how do you feel Cllr Rachel Heywood was treated by Lambeth Labour? Or is Corbyn to blame for that too?

 

[Pickman's model]

?

which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

 

[edcraw]

"Think" they operate? We just go by the facts. And what the fuck has Corbyn got to do with this? How's he responsible for what's happened in the Oval ward or Jack Hopkins suddenly resigning/ disappearing? And how do you feel Cllr Rachel Heywood was treated by Labour?

What’s the facts here?

 

[editor]

What’s the facts here?

The facts are that a councillor has suddenly made his tweets private straight after another councillor was forced to resign after a shitload of unsavoury racist tweets were found in their timeline.

Will you answer my questions now please?

 

[edcraw]

The facts are that a councillor has suddenly made his tweets private straight after another councillor was forced to resign after a shitload of unsavoury racist tweets were found in their timeline.

Will you answer my questions now please?

Not a very interesting fact more an insinuation.

This question?

And how do you feel Cllr Rachel Heywood was treated by Lambeth Labour? Or is Corbyn to blame for that too?

I seriously know next to nothing about it.

 

[editor]

Not a very interesting fact more an insinuation.

This question?



I seriously know next to nothing about it.

Perhaps you should spend some time educating yourself on the matter if you're going to defend Lambeth's practices.