Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[beesonthewhatnow]

There’s a lot of rumour and half truths floating around at the moment, and there’s a lot of people on these boards it’s going to impact on, so I thought a thread to pull the various bits of information together might be useful?

Brexit Trade deal; How does it affect touring musicians and the creative industries in general? — Viva La Visa

The deal’s finally done! The Trade and Cooperation Agreement has finally completed on Dec 24th everything is now sorted, we know exactly where the UK stands with European travel and work… Well, sort of but as always with the EU there are lots of review options down the line. Things are not al

www.vivalavisa.co.uk

I’ll start with this initial blog from VivaLaVisa. Basic take home is “lots of unknowns yet”, for individual musicians looks like things won’t change much at first, but U.K. trucking/bus companies might be a bit fucked. And yes, carnets for gear are likely going to be required, even for Northern Ireland

 

[editor]

I’ll start with this initial blog from VivaLaVisa. Basic take home is “lots of unknowns yet”, but individual musicians looks like things won’t change much at first, but U.K. trucking/bus companies might be a bit fucked. And yes, carnets for gear are likely going to be required, even for Northern Ireland

Carnets are a fucking pain in the arse. Expect some bands to be late for gigs (or not be there at all if they can't afford the additional cost of the paperwork).

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Carnets are a fucking pain in the arse. Expect some bands to be late for gigs.

Given time I'm sure it will become the "new normal" to borrow a phrase from elsewhere. But the transition is going to be shite.

 

[editor]

For what its worth

Please sign the petition to show your support.

The Musicians' Passport must:

• Last a minimum of two years
• Be free or cheap
• Cover all EU member states
• Get rid of the need for carnets and other permits
• Cover road crew, technicians and other staff necessary for musicians to do their job

Most musicians and performers rely on touring and performing in the European Union to make a living.

Musicians, and other creative and cultural workers, are a distinct workforce with specific needs. Visa and customs rules post-Brexit need to account for that.

The Musicians' Passport must be affordable, multi-entry and admin-light.

Sign the Petition

Let Touring Musicians Travel: Support Musicians Working in the EU Post-Brexit

www.change.org

 

[The39thStep]

How did tax workout pre Brexit would musicians have paid it to the country they performed in or to the U.K.? Does Brexit alter any arrangements?

 

[MrSki]

Can you believe this government could get any worse?

 

[The39thStep]

Still confused about the tax arrangements for earnings by travelling musicians pre and post Brexit

 

[Pickman's model]

UK coronavirus: 1,610 Covid-related deaths reported in new daily high - as it happened

Latest updates: today’s reported figure is the highest since pandemic began; school reopening likely to be staggered by region

www.theguardian.com

thought you'd be interested in this editor

 

[MrSki]

Another minister playing with the truth. Saw some of the debate & a lot of shaking of heads at her replies from MPs asking the questions.

ETA

 

[MrSki]

Roger Daltrey. What a twat.

 

[MickiQ]

Free movement for musicians is out of the question without free movement for everyone else. And indeed it should be why should musicians be a privileged group as opposed to brickies, plumbers, lawyers or bar staff. However free movement is a two way street and the British government and a very large percentage of the UK population wanted it ended.

 

[alex_]

How did tax workout pre Brexit would musicians have paid it to the country they performed in or to the U.K.? Does Brexit alter any arrangements?

if you weren’t there 180 days you paid at home

 

[editor]

Free movement for musicians is out of the question without free movement for everyone else. And indeed it should be why should musicians be a privileged group as opposed to brickies, plumbers, lawyers or bar staff. However free movement is a two way street and the British government and a very large percentage of the UK population wanted it ended.

Depends on whether you believe in the value of the arts and the importance of cultural exchanges. You clearly don't. I do.

Oh, and brickies and plumbers generally don't need to sell merchandise to make ends meet and there's often more than enough work available in their local area. Many bands/theatre companies etc need to tour to survive.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Free movement for musicians is out of the question without free movement for everyone else. And indeed it should be why should musicians be a privileged group as opposed to brickies, plumbers, lawyers or bar staff. However free movement is a two way street and the British government and a very large percentage of the UK population wanted it ended.

A very large percentage of the U.K. population can get fucked, quite frankly.

 

[Pickman's model]

Another minister playing with the truth. Saw some of the debate & a lot of shaking of heads at her replies from MPs asking the questions.

ETA

it does seem strange to do away with tours when they could so easily have kept them

 

[Pickman's model]

Just to confirm, all this has been made as hard for eu bands / organisations as UK ones? So less chance of seeing eg the Berlin philharmonic or Los fastidios or whoever in London I suppose

 

[editor]

Free movement for musicians is out of the question without free movement for everyone else. And indeed it should be why should musicians be a privileged group as opposed to brickies, plumbers, lawyers or bar staff. However free movement is a two way street and the British government and a very large percentage of the UK population wanted it ended.

Have you a figure for this 'very large percentage of the UK population' who want to end the free movement of bands/performers, please? Thanks.

 

[MickiQ]

brickies and plumbers generally don't need to sell merchandise to make ends meet and there's often more than enough work available in their local area.

So what? why should they be restricted to their local area and not allowed to go and work where they want? Your repeating the same argument that Leave used on keeping out Eastern European workers.
As for selling merchandise to make ends meet so do shellfish exporters and the purveyors of second hand watches (two other groups currently getting shit on by Brexit), why are bands more important than them?
I personally know people ranging from those who spend their summers waiting tables and tending bars in Ibiza to consultant engineers on 6 figure salaries who have all been fucked over by the end of free movement.
Free movement is probably one of the EU's greatest benefits to ordinary people and it is very sad that so few in this country actually recognised this.
I'm definitely in favour of restoring it but for all and I don't see any reason why musicians should be a privileged group over anyone else.
However your chances of getting what you want are pretty much nil as far as I can see. Granting UK musicians access to EU is probably something that will massively benefit the UK but much less the EU, Why should they agree to it?
The Govt was offered a mechanism for this but turned it down since it would involve compromise on taking back control of the borders which they deemed more important.

Have you a figure for this 'very large percentage of the UK population' who want to end the free movement of bands/performers, please? Thanks.

The number that voted to end the free movement of bands/performers is 0% I would imagine. However 52% voted to Leave and the end of free movement and taking back control was an issue that was front and centre in the Leave campaign.

 

[Pickman's model]

Free movement for musicians is out of the question without free movement for everyone else. And indeed it should be why should musicians be a privileged group as opposed to brickies, plumbers, lawyers or bar staff. However free movement is a two way street and the British government and a very large percentage of the UK population wanted it ended.

A very large percentage always seems to me two thirds or more. Which is in this case unlikely. I agree with you that you can't have fom for eg librarians without having it for eg actuaries

 

[editor]

So what? why should they be restricted to their local area and not allowed to go and work where they want? Your repeating the same argument that Leave used on keeping out Eastern European workers.

Most/many bands/theatre companies etc need to tour to survive/exist. There aren't enough gigs/venues in their local area. Without a paying audience, the arts will wither.

Claiming that a 'very large percentage of the UK population' voted for Brexit is wildly dishonest. It was a relatively small percentage in favour of 52%/48%.

 

[Pickman's model]

Should a musician's passport be issued I am confident the musicians' union would see a great number of membership applications if that were a step to acquiring British fom

 

[editor]

Should a musician's passport be issued I am confident the musicians' union would see a great number of membership applications if that were a step to acquiring British fom

Unfortunately, it costs £227 per year to join the MU, before any costs of a musicians passport.

They're really better for orchestras/session musicians etc than rock/alt bands etc.

 

[MickiQ]

Most/many bands/theatre companies etc need to tour to survive/exist. There aren't enough gigs/venues in their local area. Without a paying audience, the arts will wither.

Yes and I agree that's sad but of course shellfish exporters and watch sellers will go bust as well (and a lot of others who haven't twigged on yet)

Claiming that a 'very large percentage of the UK population' voted for Brexit is wildly dishonest. It was a relatively small percentage in favour of 52%/48%.

That's nitpicking 52% still a majority whether you like it or not. I (and I'm sure you) were in the 48% but it is what it is and along with those who voted Leave, we're going to have to face the consequences of it.

 

[Winot]

I’m all for every effected industry making as much noise as possible about this. Maybe eventually the 52% (or whatever % it’s at now) will wake up to the connection between all the individual deserving cases and there will be a collective facepalm moment at what we’ve done.

 

[MickiQ]

Unfortunately, it costs £227 per year to join the MU, before any costs of a musicians passport.

They're really better for orchestras/session musicians etc than rock/alt bands etc.

The guy I know charges £1000 a day minimum, he'd consider £227 per annum to be peanuts, hell it would be worth his while having a few guitar lessons just in case.

 

[Pickman's model]

The guy I know charges £1000 a day minimum, he'd consider £227 per annum to be peanuts, hell it would be worth his while having a few guitar lessons just in case.

He'd be better off getting a ukelele, could promote himself as a window cleaner too now no one who's anyone has only one job any more

 

[The39thStep]

The idea that the EU and UK or the UK and individual states cant cant modify regulations for certain categories with out tearing up the whole agreement is nonsense.

 

[editor]

The guy I know charges £1000 a day minimum, he'd consider £227 per annum to be peanuts, hell it would be worth his while having a few guitar lessons just in case.

That's really brilliant that you know someone rich like that. But what has that got to do with everyday musicians who clearly can't afford extra costs?

 

[editor]

I’m all for every effected industry making as much noise as possible about this. Maybe eventually the 52% (or whatever % it’s at now) will wake up to the connection between all the individual deserving cases and there will be a collective facepalm moment at what we’ve done.

Festivals are going to be absolutely fucked.

 

[MickiQ]

That's really brilliant that you know someone rich like that. But what has that got to do with everyday musicians who clearly can't afford extra costs?

Nothing other than I was just agreeing with Pickman's model that a special musicians passport would be a backdoor for non-musicians to regain FOM. Yet another nail in the coffin for the idea. If the likes of us can think of it. I'm pretty sure that so can Barnier.