Enough of the emotional blackmail already.editor said:
I have seen this happen far, far too many times. Instead of finding out how to go about getting the building listed, which it isn't, now we're wasting time going in circles.
Brady's, Brixton (Railway Hotel): history, chat and plans
- Thread starter citydreams
- Start date
I have seen this happen far, far too many times. Instead of finding out how to go about getting the building listed, which it isn't, now we're wasting time going in circles.
Which is what I already did.London_Calling said:
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Zinedine* said:
Local councils don't list buildings - central Government does. Until last year the listing process was the responsibility of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (successor to Department of National Heritage), with English Heritage acting as their official adviser.
English Heritage now maintain the list as well and process applications for new listings.
HOWEVER, most applications to list buildings are channelled through the local council's conservation officers.
It would not surprise me if Lambeth's conservation team got as far as putting together an application to list the Railway Hotel. Indeed they probably compiled a detailed dossier on it. (I have a sneaking suspicion of having seen some mention of ongoing work in the Conservation team's annual report.)
Were they then stopped by their bosses in the council's "Regeneration" directorate, fearful that if the pub was listed, the need to keep the whole building would stymie the plans for "Brixton Central Site Phase II" ?
Conservation officers are a long way down the bureaucratic food chain. I'm not sure whether the order would have come from the then Labour administration - who were so keen on their commercial partnership to bring chain shopping to Brixton - or (more likely) from a senior officer in the Regeneration directorate.
citydreams
on the road again
corporate whore said:
Thank you
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
editor said:
I've always been led to bellieve that too as it's a FIVE-faced clock which apparently is very rare.
AFAIK that can't be taken down but any other part of the building (eg where the gigs were) can be ripped to shreds. In fact that bit was added later.
Anyone else ever crawled through the ventilator shafts btw? There must be a million mice there by now and their dung is probably what keeps the building together.
Zinedine*
Well-Known Member
I got the reply back from the Planning bloke and he said much the same as Lang Rabbie I.E. English Heritage will have the records. He also said that it's very unlikely that any records the L.A. hold on the listing would be lost. Especially, If there was recent planning permission. A large company would have got solicitors and specialists to research the site thoroughly in order to prevent any problems in the future.
His view is that it is not listed, but there is a good case for getting it listed. He will send me some relevant literature through the post on this process, which I can pass on to whoever needs it.
His view is that it is not listed, but there is a good case for getting it listed. He will send me some relevant literature through the post on this process, which I can pass on to whoever needs it.
Glad we have cleared that up.Zinedine* said:
The only way it would already be listed is if an organised (ha!) pressure group of residents etc had made sure that it happened and that is EXTREMELY unlikely. I have certainly never heard of any such thing having occurred. It was a pub, then it was shut, then it was a squat and now it's empty again. No one has tried to list it in that time. The council wouldn't have done it off its own back for the reasons rabbie explains.
IntoStella said:Glad we have cleared that up.
The only way it would already be listed is if an organised (ha!) pressure group of residents etc had made sure that it happened and that is EXTREMELY unlikely. I have certainly never heard of any such thing having occurred. It was a pub, then it was shut, then it was a squat and now it's empty again. No one has tried to list it in that time. The council wouldn't have done it off its own back for the reasons rabbie explains.
You might be able to get the Electric Avenue Residents Group and Electric Mansions Tennants Group to support it getting listed.
Although I think there is some apprehension about what Brady's might reopen 'as' because of noise and people pissing up Electric Lane.
You said this local oracle told you it was already listed. That isn't what rabbie said, is it?editor said:
I agree with rabbie that the council might well have lost an application for listing down the back of a filing cabinet, which is why it would most probably only happen if local people kept up the pressure, but that is not the same as losing existing records of an actual listing, which would be absolutely stupid even by Lambeth standards.
editor
hiraethified
It's got nothing to do with "emotional blackmail".IntoStella said:Enough of the emotional blackmail already.
I'm just not prepared to put up with your sneering put downs. It's not constructive, it's distracting and frankly, it pisses me off.
And already you're posting up the 'rolleyes' emoticons!
I can't work with people like that, and seeing as this has happened at a very early stage, I'll leave you to it because prolonged personal squabbles aren't going to help the fight to re-open Bradys.
I wish you - and others - the best of luck and will be happy to help promote any fund raisers etc at a later date if required.
Good points. Local residents would have to be reassured that any plans for the site would make things better for them, if anything, not worse. Better in the sense that more law abiding citizens around late at night, and more 'community atmosphere', helps to prevent crime, for example.memespring said:
Sorry, is this a campaign to reopen Brady's or to nurture your eggshell ego? I already told you we had checked the records and that the building, including the clocktower, is not listed. Spreading misinformation is not helpful to anybody. Whatever this bloke said, it was not the same as what Rabbie said. Rabbie did not say the building was already listed.editor said:
Get over yourself.editor said:
By the way, that is not what I said. You go absolutely spare if people misquote you. Why not apply your own expectations to yourself?editor said:
The meeting was extremely useful and encouraging. We were even briefly graced with the presence of cllr Sawdon.
And I found out just how far bob is in league with the devil.
And I found out just how far bob is in league with the devil.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
From the the news today said:
Even the Government want a community centre at Brady's!
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Brixton Hatter said:
It was a very bizarre speech not all of which may be similarly popular with some regular posters...
Give community groups right to buy derelict land, says minister
Grauniad said:
Yesterday's Financial Times had a clearer indication of what might be proposed.
FT said:
50 Foot Queenie
New Member
do I need a title?
This is my first post, so if this doesn't quite work, please forgive me.
First, I should out myself as working for central government, in fact for ODPM (and therefore indirectly for Mr Milliband). But I would love to see Bradys, and in fact the whole surrounding area, be brought back into use. When swimming in the Recreation Centre, you get a great view of the clock tower, and it is a crying shame it's in the state it's in.
Local authorities are obliged by law to dispose of any land they own at full market value - if they wish to sell at an undervalue, they must get the consent of the Secretary of State (ie Big John). The government though have given a general consent to all local authorities enabling them to dispose of land at an undervalue provided that the undervalue is less than £2million. That figure was set in order to give power back to local authorities to decide on disposals at an undervalue (the most usual reason for selling at an undervalue is of course to further some community purpose), because local authorities should be accountable to the local community for decisions like this.
All David Milliband said about the Community Right to Buy was that they have it in Scotland, and that the government will look at this as an option. If they decide that they do want to introduce such a right, in order to bring it forward, legislation would be needed. And I can tell you that there aren't any bills in the immediate offing for ODPM. So it's likely to be at least 2-3 years before any such right would be in existence - there has to be all the policy exploration first, then a bill takes about a year to go through, and then you have to implement the bill after it's passed to make it work. So it's probably not worth getting too excited about this as any kind of option for Brady's.
So, the upshot of all this is that power for disposing of the site at an undervalue lies solely with the council, and the government have got nothing to do with it - lobbying should focus on the Council. That doesn't mean that it isn't worth getting the local MP on board, even though Keith would have no actual power to make the council do anything, if he was behind the project surely that would help? I don't know how helpful or active he is locally though...
lang rabbie said:
This is my first post, so if this doesn't quite work, please forgive me.
First, I should out myself as working for central government, in fact for ODPM (and therefore indirectly for Mr Milliband). But I would love to see Bradys, and in fact the whole surrounding area, be brought back into use. When swimming in the Recreation Centre, you get a great view of the clock tower, and it is a crying shame it's in the state it's in.
Local authorities are obliged by law to dispose of any land they own at full market value - if they wish to sell at an undervalue, they must get the consent of the Secretary of State (ie Big John). The government though have given a general consent to all local authorities enabling them to dispose of land at an undervalue provided that the undervalue is less than £2million. That figure was set in order to give power back to local authorities to decide on disposals at an undervalue (the most usual reason for selling at an undervalue is of course to further some community purpose), because local authorities should be accountable to the local community for decisions like this.
All David Milliband said about the Community Right to Buy was that they have it in Scotland, and that the government will look at this as an option. If they decide that they do want to introduce such a right, in order to bring it forward, legislation would be needed. And I can tell you that there aren't any bills in the immediate offing for ODPM. So it's likely to be at least 2-3 years before any such right would be in existence - there has to be all the policy exploration first, then a bill takes about a year to go through, and then you have to implement the bill after it's passed to make it work. So it's probably not worth getting too excited about this as any kind of option for Brady's.
So, the upshot of all this is that power for disposing of the site at an undervalue lies solely with the council, and the government have got nothing to do with it - lobbying should focus on the Council. That doesn't mean that it isn't worth getting the local MP on board, even though Keith would have no actual power to make the council do anything, if he was behind the project surely that would help? I don't know how helpful or active he is locally though...
I have finally got around to making, as promised, a pledge at pledgebank.com to get off the ground the campaign to list Brady's clocktower and bring the building back into community use.
It's at:
www.pledgebank.com/bradys
Please sign up for the sake of this beautiful, much loved and much-neglected Brixton landmark. You don't have to be a local resident.
List Brady's thread here
It's at:
www.pledgebank.com/bradys
Please sign up for the sake of this beautiful, much loved and much-neglected Brixton landmark. You don't have to be a local resident.
List Brady's thread here
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
No, I thought the council had earmarked it for the luxury flats route with shops in the basement....anyway, there are threads about it knocking about...I'll see if there are any amongst the thousands of threads accidentally shunted to the mods forum, and if there are, I'll shunt them back into this forum.....
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
oooh... that's a bit exciting!
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Well, all the Lambeth Council owned council estate pubs leases came up for renewal last year or the year before (Hero of Switzerland, Robin Hood & Little John, Windmill etc) but as far as I know the existing landlords renewed the leases.gabi said:
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
whatever, it's a bloomin disgrace that Bradys has been closed so long, given the tube fukup it could have quite happily run as a venue for years. 
