Brady's, Brixton (Railway Hotel): history, chat and plans
- Thread starter citydreams
- Start date
What's the difference between "min[ing] the collective knowledge of long term Brixtonites" and local public consultation?editor said:I'm a complete stranger to these things, but wouldn't it be better to mine the collective knowledge of long term Brixtonites to forge an exciting, fired-with-enthusiasm, cohesive, working plan of what the place might be and then present that to the community for their feedback rather than starting from a blank sheet?Or is that just my impatient get on with it punk rock nature rearing its head?
More specifically than 'something like Cooltan', what would you like to see?
I hadn't even heard of it before. I'll have a butcher's.memespring said:
Bob -- nice one. Cheers.
Bob gets ready to go out
Oohhhh, the memories. Ohhhh, the headache.oryx said:Just to say this is a really interesting & worthwhile thread. I used to go to Brady's a lot in the mid-late 90s & it was a fantastic venue, with that great big room in the middle. Lots of happy memories of good nights including being served once at 7.30 a.m. (should that be,
, or
?)
editor
hiraethified
Maybe I don't know the correct terms, but "local public consultation" sounds like starting with a blank sheet and then going around with a clipboard asking people questions about what they may like. That sounds like it might take forever.IntoStella said:What's the difference between "min[ing] the collective knowledge of long term Brixtonites" and local public consultation?
More specifically than 'something like Cooltan', what would you like to see?
My preference would be to to get a small team of people on-board with hands on experience and/or tons of enthusiasm, thrash out a realistic, workable, achievable plan that we agree on, designate roles and then present the idea to the target audience for their opinion/feedback (and amend/rip up plans if necessary)
But that's how I like to work in teams, so maybe my approach is incompatible with how you like to do things.
Seeing as you asked, my ideal would be to have a community venue that offers things like live performance/theatre/kids space and daytime cafe with a bar in the evening.
I'd like there to be rehearsal space/workshop space/cheap rooms for hire to community projects. Fuck, I've got a ton of ideas, some of them good, some of them no doubt crap and/or impractical.
But I would say Cooltan is as good a template to work from as any. It certainly proved a good reference point for my Offline nights!
IntoStella said:
Its a great site - I used it to get people to write to Kate Hoey about the countryside alliance job: http://www.pledgebank.com/katehoey
You can read their letters here to prove it worked: http://www.katehoey.co.uk/2005/08/pledge_success.html
Sounds good. Glad to see you're so enthusiastic about it.editor said:
I'm back, out of my cloak and have news, 90% good (IMHO) 
The story requires remembering some key things:
1. In 2002 council control went from Labour to Lib Dem
2. In 2006 there will be council elections
3. Everything relating to the tube is very complicated and isn't just to do with Transport for London, but also the private companies that run the tube.
4. The council has £500m or so of debt so in most circumstances just does whatever raises most cash / costs least whoever is in control.
5. This is written by a lib dem who has talked to lib dems, so if you're paranoid you may not believe me.
1. The past
Right back in 1999 or so a plan was hatched by the then Labour council with the tube to combine Bradys with the site next door that is the outlet for stale air from the tube plus a small yard round it. It is this yard (+Bradys) that the plans relate to.
At various stages the tube have thought they'll need different bits of space depending on things like where escalators are so this has held up everything.
While the council own the land the pre 2002 council sold the exclusive rights to develop the site (including the tube bit in some way I don't understand) to Swan Hill for about five years.
While the tube was being redeveloped (still not quite finished) the private company couldn't start building since half the potential site was being used.
2. The future.
The exclusive rights expire soon - possibly at the end of this year (I haven't clarified this yet)
Once the rights expire the council can do what it likes with Bradys.
The council will basically have three options:
1. Give it over to something completely non profit (Very unlikely given the councils debts)
2. Sell the site but subject to the ground floor (or ground and first) being given over to a pub / theatre etc. with the rest open to other uses -probably flats.
3. Sell the site with no restrictions.
3. Good news / bad news
Good news is:
The relevant responsible Executive member (councillor) Andrew Sawdon used to drink at Bradys and wants to see it back as a pub
Anyone who isn't in charge of Lambeths budget would want something that is either 1 or 2 in some combination
Bad news is:
option 3 would bring in a bit more money - so other councillors may force this regardless of what party is in power.
Conclusion:
A campaign for the pub being returned in some sort would probably be successful.
The closer to 2 it is the more likely success will be IMHO - though I can understand lobbying for 1.
The electoral cycle is quite good for getting commitments from all the parties on this.
So I think we should have a campaign that as the bottom line is lobbying for Bradys back as a pub.
The story requires remembering some key things:
1. In 2002 council control went from Labour to Lib Dem
2. In 2006 there will be council elections
3. Everything relating to the tube is very complicated and isn't just to do with Transport for London, but also the private companies that run the tube.
4. The council has £500m or so of debt so in most circumstances just does whatever raises most cash / costs least whoever is in control.
5. This is written by a lib dem who has talked to lib dems, so if you're paranoid you may not believe me.
1. The past
Right back in 1999 or so a plan was hatched by the then Labour council with the tube to combine Bradys with the site next door that is the outlet for stale air from the tube plus a small yard round it. It is this yard (+Bradys) that the plans relate to.
At various stages the tube have thought they'll need different bits of space depending on things like where escalators are so this has held up everything.
While the council own the land the pre 2002 council sold the exclusive rights to develop the site (including the tube bit in some way I don't understand) to Swan Hill for about five years.
While the tube was being redeveloped (still not quite finished) the private company couldn't start building since half the potential site was being used.
2. The future.
The exclusive rights expire soon - possibly at the end of this year (I haven't clarified this yet)
Once the rights expire the council can do what it likes with Bradys.
The council will basically have three options:
1. Give it over to something completely non profit (Very unlikely given the councils debts)
2. Sell the site but subject to the ground floor (or ground and first) being given over to a pub / theatre etc. with the rest open to other uses -probably flats.
3. Sell the site with no restrictions.
3. Good news / bad news
Good news is:
The relevant responsible Executive member (councillor) Andrew Sawdon used to drink at Bradys and wants to see it back as a pub
Anyone who isn't in charge of Lambeths budget would want something that is either 1 or 2 in some combination
Bad news is:
option 3 would bring in a bit more money - so other councillors may force this regardless of what party is in power.
Conclusion:
A campaign for the pub being returned in some sort would probably be successful.
The closer to 2 it is the more likely success will be IMHO - though I can understand lobbying for 1.
The electoral cycle is quite good for getting commitments from all the parties on this.
So I think we should have a campaign that as the bottom line is lobbying for Bradys back as a pub.
citydreams
on the road again
Bob said:
they've got on their website that the project cost £6.5m, which isn't bad seeming as they've not done anything.
I wonder whether there is a bind on the type of development that Swan Hill can do
citydreams
on the road again
but if they paid an option to develop that land it must be according an agreed definition.. well, maybe not must, but hopefully
citydreams
on the road again
could asking for info on the deal through FOI scare the council into doing something quick sharp?
kea said:sounds positive
Yup. Incidentally in terms of speed of stuff being sorted out option 2 is the one that will get the pub back into use quickest. The council could sell it to a pub owner who would sort it out very quickly.
Nice, work, Bob. Hmmmm. Plenty of food for thought there. Sawdon seems all right. For a lib dem, anyway.
citydreams
on the road again
So, all those in favour of doing more than sitting on our arses while this building rots,
we're planning on meeting up for a drink or two on
the evening of Wednesday, September 28th at the Trinity pub, 7:30ish
we're planning on meeting up for a drink or two on
the evening of Wednesday, September 28th at the Trinity pub, 7:30ish
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
I've known him for nearly 25 years. He's got some really valuable youth projects off the ground in that time, which are all still thriving. The best thing about him is that he'll only say he'll do things if he actually can. You know exactly where you are with Andrew Sawdon.IntoStella said:
Food for thought for everyone. Once we know a bit more we probably need a fairly simple petition along these lines - comments welcome. I've intentionally made it so that a wide variety of people will be happy to sign it and it is likely to be supported by all three parties on the council. In other words this is designed to build consensus - which is why it doesn't & shouldn't have a lot in it.
citydreams
on the road again
..would love to add a condition tying the use of one of the rooms as a community space.
The SLP made mention of the new Weir Link Project - a Lambeth backed £2million community centre in Clapham. Going to look it up and see if they can offer any support.
The SLP made mention of the new Weir Link Project - a Lambeth backed £2million community centre in Clapham. Going to look it up and see if they can offer any support.
one thing that hasn't been talked about much is the state of the place.even when it was last squated it was in an appalling state of repair.the electrics,gas and water would have to be completly redone,but worse still is the state of the floors/ceilings,there is a very good chance that the place would have to be completly gutted and rebuilt which would cost a lot of money.
i love bradys and would love to see it back,but to talk about what should be done with the place without taking cost into account is a waste of time.
i love bradys and would love to see it back,but to talk about what should be done with the place without taking cost into account is a waste of time.
citydreams
on the road again
but then, how is it possible to know what is feasible without getting a proper evaluation done? and why would the council bother doing that when it can just sell the land off as a commercial interest?
Oooh, you're so masterful.citydreams said:
If the Albert is too loud, what about the Trin? Dull on a Friday night but good for political machinations.
This is the chicken and egg aspect of projects like this but it is not insurmountable.linerider said:
Basically you have got to know what work needs to be done and how much it will cost (as well as what you intend to do with the place) before you can realistically apply for grants, ie Heritage Lottery Fund and various EC regeneration grants, to pay for it. Nobody is suggesting we find the money ourselves. We couldn't. There is still masses of regeneration money around, but the only way to proceed with any prospect of long term success is to do everything by the book in terms of surveys, feasibility studies, etc. Grants are available to pay for these as well.
BCA spent about 5 million quid of HLF money just on a feasibility study for Raleigh Hall. It may seem crazy but that is how it is done. A project as big as Brady's has got to be carried out and funded properly.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
citydreams said:
Revamp for rats' haven?
Although they can tell you how they set up the project, I suspect they would be in competition for the same funds - Lambeth hasn't actually stumped up much cash so far for the project.
It's a former estate hall that has been derelict for a decade. The project has only been kept going by the persistence of a local vicar, and the fact that in one of the most marginal wards in the borough, split between Labour and the Lib Dems, it has backing of all the local councillors.
Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Lambeth housing would have demolished it by now and transferred the site to a housing association for new social housing, probably without any new facilties for the estate.
citydreams
on the road again
lang rabbie said:
Shocking! No commitment for a community centre? I really am naive.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
IntoStella said:
Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) website said:
I think that English Heritage gave Lambeth an earlier grant to make the Raleigh Hall building watertight, but that was a six figure sum at most.
Edited to add: AFAIK, BCA also got £344,000 from the HLF back in 1999 under their guise as "National Museum & Archives of Black History & Culture" for improved conservation/storage facilities for their collection.
