BNP leader faces jail!!

[ViolentPanda]

I've one criticism, why does he drag it out for so long?

Give 'em enough rope...

 

[butchersapron]

So you, MrA and Y_I_Otter are all former Stormfront posters? edit: oh I see, with opposing views

Experienced at posting against the far right yet think that i'm far right. Did you not pick anything up? Learn anything?

 

[Boppity]

Experienced at posting against the far right yet think that i'm far right. Did you not pick anything up? Learn anything?

I most certainly have not accused you of being 'far right' nor have I seen any evidence that Y_I_Otter or MrA have either.

MrA has merely indicated that you appear neutral on the issue. I myself am not involved enough in the thread to comment on what I think your position is.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I'd say "they're not Nazis or fascists, but their politics are partly based on spurious 'race' arguments and on a version of nationalism that is far more excluding than, for example, the nationalism of the Scots. Look to their history and to the non-policy pronouncements of their leadership and make your own mind up exactly how worthy they are of support".

Why? How do you define neo-fascist? Has Nick Griffin never been fascist? If yes, at what point did he stop being one?

 

[audiotech]

Give 'em enough rope...

I've only played that album once. Must get it out again sometime for a second play.

 

[butchersapron]

I most certainly have not accused you of being 'far right' nor have I seen any evidence that Y_I_Otter or MrA have either.

MrA has merely indicated that you appear neutral on the issue. I myself am not involved enough in the thread to comment on what I think your position is.

MR A has, repeatdly. You had a go at backing him up.

'appear neutral' - 'I myself am not involved enough in the thread'. Appeaser.

I'll ask again:

Did you not pick anything up from posting with the far right? Learn anything from them?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Links to what? Links to you being out-argued time and time again? Use the search function on your own user-name and read 'em and fucking weep!

liar.

 

[Boppity]

MR A has, repeatdly. You had a go at backing him up.

'appear neutral' - 'I myself am not involved enough in the thread'. Appeaser.

'Appear neutral' were words I took from MrA, that's exactly what he said, word for word. They aren't my own, I'm not going to judge this guy without reading all of his posts, something I don't have the inclination to do. You can rush in with your judgements if you like but I won't.

 

[butchersapron]

'Appear neutral' were words I took from MrA, that's exactly what he said, word for word. They aren't my own, I'm not going to judge this guy without reading all of his posts, something I don't have the inclination to do. You can rush in with your judgements if you like but I won't.

What 'guy'? You just said that he's your mate from elsewhere. Unravelling.

 

[Boppity]

Did you not pick anything up from posting with the far right? Learn anything from them?

Oh, I didn't realise this question was directed at me. Duh! What do you mean did I learn anything from them?

I suppose you could say my view isn't as black and white (pardon the pun) as it was when I went into it. But I was very young when I started posting too, so that could have had something to do with it. I started out thinking that all BNP sympathisers were racist monsters, no questions asked. My view has since mellowed in that regard, I realise that many people who support the BNP do so out of misplaced fear or misunderstanding. They aren't all just 'evil Nazis', some of them have genuine concerns and are directing their vitriol, in my opinion, at the wrong sources. These tend to be the voters or the average people who are slightly sympathetic towards the BNP rather than the hardcore campaigners or the MP's themselves for whom I have little but contempt for.

I believe alot of the problems faced by people tend to be class issues more than race issues. Personally I think race is a completely irrelevant concept.

 

[Boppity]

What 'guy'? You just said that he's your mate from elsewhere. Unravelling.

When I said judge the guy I meant you, for some reason I thought I was responding to a different poster. It's been a long day and I have a headache, cut me some slack.

 

[TremulousTetra]

What 'guy'? You just said that he's your mate from elsewhere. Unravelling.

Oh fucking hell, it's Sherlock Drones.

Is pickmans watson?

 

[ViolentPanda]

They are right to be concerned about the growth of Islam in this country.

What do you mean by "the growth of Islam"? Do you mean it is expanding it's base of followers in the UK, or that it's becoming a more visible political force?

They are right to want to cut immigration and they are right to advocate voluntary repatriation, there are too many immigrants in this country.

Define what you mean by "too many", please.

This government have lost control of immigration.

No, they haven't. Not of legal immigration, which is the only sort they can control. If you want to moan about illegal immigration, have a word with the Prime Minister who halved the number of posts for immigration inspectors at British ports of entry back in the 1990s.

There are too many scam marriages and too many bogus asylum seekers.

Figures for "scam marriages" and for "bogus asylum seekers", please

They are right to want to bring back the death penalty regards serial killers like Huntley, Nielson and terrorists etc etc.

Are they?
And what if your brother, husband or son were falsely or even correctly convicted of serial killing or terrorism, would you still be barking for the death penalty so loudly?

They want to keep the pound and get out of the EU.

So they say. Pity they haven't made any substantive proposals whatsoever and now have two of their hierarchy serving as Euro MPs.
As for sterling, if they ever got in power (which they won't), they'd be forced to acknowledge that it's not them who get to decide, it's business. As soon as it isn't in the interests of "the city" for the UK to retain sterling, whoever governs will bend the knee.

The list is endless I could go on.

And I'm sure that, given the chance, you do.

Now you tell me what they are so wrong about???

They are right to want to cut funding for unnecessary University degrees.

What is an "unnecessary university degree" when it's at home, then?

They are right to

So you keep saying, although all we have to prove your claims is...well, your insistence that "they're right to".

 

[TremulousTetra]

delete:

 

[butchersapron]

When I said judge the guy I meant you, for some reason I thought I was responding to a different poster. It's been a long day and I have a headache, cut me some slack.

Fair dos. Slack cut.

 

[ViolentPanda]

....believe in the leadership principle?

As they call it nowadays.

 

[Y_I_Otter]

I've never posted at Stormfront's OV forum and wouldn't. It's their playpen and it's run through over-moderation: thread deletions, thread closure, post editing, and banning by the staff. It's not there for an exchange of ideas, but as a recruiting tool and a chance to make antiracists look like idiots by belittling their arguments, using the tactics I mentioned. Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to that? MSF was created as a venue for racialists/white nationalists to mix it up with antiracists on a more level playing field.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ask a black immigrant who they think they are, inevitably they'd say Asian first then British.

That hasn't been the case for me, and I have spent all my 47 years living alongside the British-born children of immigrants, and I can't remember any of them defining themselves in the way you claim is common.

Take the racism out of it, the Americans have got it right Asian/American African/American etc etc.

Well, that's exactly how most of my mates define themselves: As Anglo-Caribbean, Anglo-Pakistani etc.
You should stop getting your cultural information from the media.

If the PC brigade have their way they will be asking to totally remove the photo on passports and driving licences soon.

That's about as likely to happen as you are likely to wake up tomorrow a millionaire.

It's not about racism it's about identity. After all you don't get black Asian Chinese do you???

You get East African Asians, Indo-Caribbeans, Sino-Caribbeans and loads of other mixes.
What sort of "whites only" cultural void do you live in? Some back of beyond one-haystack town in south Lincs, or are you just unaware of what's around you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Odd use of such stale, content-free trad-left curse words by someone as vibrantly human as TBH

Well, he claims to be human, anyway!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Still waiting for links. You both lying?

In fact where have I ever called anybody have a fascist?

Are you therefore admitting that butch has indeed destroyed your arguments over and over again?

Because you can't have the one without the other, you know.

 

[mk12]

Sorry RMP3, just seen your posts. You haven't called Butch a fascist. I meant criticise him, but got carried away.

 

[Knotted]

MSF = MootStormfront. It was set up several years ago as a result of the draconian moderation in the Stormfront opposing views section, it wasn't set up as a response to the BNP.

Any discussion of the BNP on that forum is of just the same value and relevance as it is on this site. It was from that website that MrA and I found this one, through Y_I_Otter. I have been posting on MSF since 2006 (around the time I joined here you'll notice, though I've only recently started posting on a semi-regular basis) and it most certainly is not a friendly platform for racists nor has it ever been.

Thanks for the answer. MSF seems harmless enough to be fair.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why? How do you define neo-fascist? Has Nick Griffin never been fascist? If yes, at what point did he stop being one?

To answer your vapid questions.
I define "neo-fascist" as political practice that includes elements of updated fascist ideology, especially corporatism, myths of "racial purity", an anti-immigration stance and an antipathy toward democracy and the mechanisms used to operate it. The BNP as currently constituted (in the proper meaning of the word) only push the "racial purity" and "anti-immigration" buttons, as their current stance is anti-big business and pro-democracy.
Griffin has previously, pre-takover, professed his loyalty to fascist principles. He doesn't do so now. He may be a fascist, but if he isn't professing support for fascism, or campaigning on a fascist platform, then attacking him as a "Nazi" or "fascist" makes you look stupid and him look martyred by weirdos.

 

[ViolentPanda]

liar.

Why would I lie? People only have to use the search function themselves to see I'm not lying.

 

[The Black Hand]

While you and TBH have retained your purity.

That's called "projection" by shrinks, you know.

My point has been, for a very long time, that noone is pure, no one perfect, no groups either.

Our point has been that dry non committal description is not either. Hardly a declaration of war was it, and look at the stink

 

[The Black Hand]

Sorry, you are right what you said was even more daft

Look, just because I am honest enough to say what I feel does not mean that it is a recommendation for a mass party to follow. When you can recognise pub talk for what it is, and developed politics let me know. Don't confuse the 2, that is straw man rubbish.

 

[The Black Hand]

I don't know butchersapron, apart from on these boards, but it's obvious that he does know a great deal about fascism and has some ideas of how to fight it.

He only picks on those who appear bereft of any ideas in effectively opposing the BNP of today. In reply, we see the usual smear and exaggeration, to hide the posters own lack of knowledge on the subject - dangerous.

I've one criticism, why does he drag it out for so long?

Jus cos Butchers reads BNP propaganda and repeats it, doesn't make it good politics.

If you want serious anti fascist theory try this;
http://journal-articles.googlegroup...boGG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDRCtAIzYAd7ET1iMmRpdYsL

 

[The Black Hand]

They are right to be concerned about the growth of Islam in this country.

They are right to want to cut immigration and they are right to advocate voluntary repatriation, there are too many immigrants in this country. This government have lost control of immigration. There are too many scam marriages and too many bogus asylum seekers.

They are right to want to bring back the death penalty regards serial killers like Huntley, Nielson and terrorists etc etc

They want to keep the pound and get out of the EU.

The list is endless I could go on.

Now you tell me what they are so wrong about???

They are right to want to cut funding for unnecessary University degrees.

They are right to

All wrong. Stupid even.

 

[The Black Hand]

His "tactic" at least causes no harm. This is why it is superior to UAF.

That's a revealing quote. Is that 'do nothing'? If it is, it is deluded.

 

[The Black Hand]

He doesn't stand up against the establishment, he's part of it, like his political forebears Mosley and Chesterton (to name but two). He's about as heroic as a wet fart.

Brilliant