blokes, would you be willing to accept restrictions on your behaviour...

[Manter]

In a park, a bloke on his own should not start up conversations with children like that, no. Sad that this is the case, but I stood and watched because alarm bells were ringing with me, and I wanted to make sure nothing bad happened.

I genuinely think that's bizarre. He could have said 'where are your parents?' Or 'are you ok?' If she looked upset. She may have been looking at something and he asked what out of perfectly normal human curiosity. He may have known her and was asking her to give her mum a message or saying he'd bring round the DVD her dad wanted to borrow later. Any number of things. The likelihood he was grooming her or planning an abduction is so remote it would be laughable if it wasn't so bloody sad.

 

[High Voltage]

. . . I was in the park the other day and an old man stopped to talk to a child whose parents were not in eyeshot. She was young, maybe 9 or 10. I stopped a distance away and kept on looking until the man walked away. There are things you don't do, as a man, and that's one of them. A shame, sometimes, but we already self-censor. . .

So you, a young(?) bloke on your own, stopped and watched an old bloke who was on his own talking to a young girl of maybe 9 or 10

Who was watching you?

 

[8ball]

So you, a young(?) bloke on your own, stopped and watched an old bloke who was on his own talking to a young girl of maybe 9 or 10

Who was watching you?

This is why there should always be a dog around to keep an eye on things.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I genuinely think that's bizarre. He could have said 'where are your parents?' Or 'are you ok?' If she looked upset. She may have been looking at something and he asked what out of perfectly normal human curiosity. He may have known her and was asking her to give her mum a message or saying he'd bring round the DVD her dad wanted to borrow later. Any number of things. The likelihood he was grooming her or planning an abduction is so remote it would be laughable if it wasn't so bloody sad.

No. She wasn't upset. He didn't know her. It really did feel dodgy, which is why I stopped to make sure he walked on.

 

[Orang Utan]

I was on the train yesterday and a boy from my school got on and was reading a book I had given him as part of a free book scheme. I said hello and told him it was good to see him reading and asked about the book.
I got a couple of troubled looks from other passengers until it became clear that I knew him but it made me think how unfortunate it was that a stranger striking up a conversation with a child provoked such feelings of disquiet.
I voted something else, but like el-ahrairah am waiting to see if anyone else has ideas cos I'm stumped.

 

[el-ahrairah]

no one has any ideas. that's the thing. our current situation is the best possible world at the moment. what a depressing and terrifying thought. i think i'm going to get drunk this afternoon.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not sure whether to like that post or not! The centralised system that provides an illusion of safety- yes, absolutely. And completely ignores that children are most at risk from their own families etc.

But why should an old bloke not talk to a child? Why should bmd not watch children play? It's a normal human reaction to be interested in children- FFS it's a normal animal reaction to be interested in young of their own species. I'd hate to live in a society where that perfectly normal, natural interest is pathologised

You tagged bmd but I think you meant to tag ska invita

 

[littlebabyjesus]

no one has any ideas.

That's not true.

There are several different issues being conflated here. Taking issues of child abuse and exploitation, there are all kinds of things that can be done to improve care services - involving investment, training, support for foster parents and other kinds of expensive intervention. Many cases of vulnerable young people are also a wider symptom of an economically divided society - measures to improve social justice can have positive feedback in other areas.

Taking the issue of rape, there is still a very long way to go in changing police and court attitudes, for instance ensuring that certain kinds of things, such as the complainant's sexual history or what she was wearing, are simply not allowed in court. Plenty can be done.

In short, you deal with the whole society in which these situations are produced. These are not easy answers, but there are no easy answers.

 

[ska invita]

Taking the issue of rape, there is still a very long way to go in changing police and court attitudes, for instance ensuring that certain kinds of things, such as the complainant's sexual history or what she was wearing, are simply not allowed in court. Plenty can be done.

definitely this
is there anything else thats being proposed?

 

[Greebo]

no one has any ideas. that's the thing. our current situation is the best possible world at the moment. <snip>

At the moment.

The first step is realising that it's not great, and that change is needed. The second step is coming up with exactly what a change for the better could look like.

Getting drunk won't help.

 

[Pickman's model]

i think i'm going to get drunk this afternoon.

here's a thought. why not get drunk this evening instead?

 

[Manter]

You tagged bmd but I think you meant to tag ska invita

Oops!

 

[el-ahrairah]

here's a thought. why not get drunk this evening instead?

i was going to do that anyway.

 

[Manter]

No. She wasn't upset. He didn't know her. It really did feel dodgy, which is why I stopped to make sure he walked on.

Well, I only have your word for that.... But you went on in your orig post to say it just wasn't done. And I genuinely don't see why not.

 

[Pickman's model]

i was going to do that anyway.

yeh. but why not have some tea and then start the beers and chasers?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well, I only have your word for that.... But you went on in your orig post to say it just wasn't done. And I genuinely don't see why not.

Yes, you only have my word for that.

I tried to do it in a discreet way. Just to make sure nothing bad was going to happen. Nothing did. And yes, it is sad that we are in such a situation, but I don't think strangers should strike up conversations with children they don't know in parks unless they think that child might need help.

 

[el-ahrairah]

yeh. but why not have some tea and then start the beers and chasers?

you're right, a nice cup of tea and a step away from the internet would do wonders i think.

 

[Greebo]

i was going to do that anyway.

Fair enough if that's your choice.

I find that drinking while still angry or upset doesn't help me calm down, nor does it help me think more clearly. If it helps you, go ahead, as you're a better man (and person, come to think of it) than I am.

 

[Orang Utan]

Well, I only have your word for that.... But you went on in your orig post to say it just wasn't done. And I genuinely don't see why not.

I think littlebabyjesus ' post was a teeny bit on the Quartz side of hysterical paranoia. I have spoken to women and children in the park before. I've never felt that it just wasn't done, just that one should exercise some caution.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think littlebabyjesus ' post was a teeny bit on the Quartz side of hysterical paranoia. I have spoken to women and children in the park before. I've never felt that it just wasn't done, just that one should exercise some caution.

I was not hysterically paranoid. I paused to check that the man moved on, that's all.

 

[Orang Utan]

I was not hysterically paranoid. I paused to check that the man moved on, that's all.

I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to your contention that men shouldn't strike up conversations with kids they don't know.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to your contention that men shouldn't strike up conversations with kids they don't know.

Ok. Men should show a great deal of caution when approaching kids they don't know. And yes, in many ways that is a sad state of affairs.

And I think I was right to stop and check in the park. Something about what he was doing didn't sit right. I didn't do harm by stopping - don't think either of them even saw me.

 

[Orang Utan]

But you said it just simply wasn't done. I don't agree. And there's nowt wrong with watching kids play either. They can be a joy to watch.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But you said it just simply wasn't done. I don't agree. And there's nowt wrong with watching kids play either. They can be a joy to watch.

That's not what he was doing. Anyway, I'm leaving this now.

 

[Orang Utan]

That's not what he was doing. Anyway, I'm leaving this now.

You misunderstand again. I was talking about you saying it simply wasn't done. In general. That's not true.

 

[8ball]

you're right, a nice cup of tea and a step away from the internet would do wonders i think.

Bit of sun and fresh air. Don't forget your jumper - it's getting chilly.

 

[Manter]

Snip I don't think strangers should strike up conversations with children they don't know in parks unless they think that child might need help.

But why not? A word or a smile or a frown or a comment may deter a child from doing something naughty, illuminate something for them, offer them a new perspective....

I think it comes to a fundamentally different way if looking at the world- is an adult outside a child's immediate sphere a threat or are they a potential lifeline? If we are a community, a village, if you like, all building relationships with one another and having contact with one another's lives, that must do more to prevent abuse than trying to seal children off from 'outsiders'- every family becoming it's own little island.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But why not? A word or a smile or a frown or a comment may deter a child from doing something naughty, illuminate something for them, offer them a new perspective....

I think it comes to a fundamentally different way if looking at the world- is an adult outside a child's immediate sphere a threat or are they a potential lifeline? If we are a community, a village, if you like, all building relationships with one another and having contact with one another's lives, that must do more to prevent abuse than trying to seal children off from 'outsiders'- every family becoming it's own little island.

I agree. But this was a park in central London. There is a balance, and sometimes we should self-censor in order not to give the potential for alarm. But again, you weren't there - this wasn't a casual word or smile or frown. This was a man approaching a child he did not know, squatting down and engaging her in conversation. He instigated the interaction, and it didn't sit right.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why do you keep mention this specific and possibly fictional incident when you'd earlier mentioned that men talking to kids they didn't know simply wasn't done? We are talking in general and you keep bringing it back to the specific.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why do you keep mention this specific and possibly fictional incident when you'd earlier mentioned that men talking to kids they didn't know simply wasn't done? We are talking in general and you keep bringing it back to the specific.

'possibly fictional'?

I'm illustrating the kind of thing I think men need to be aware and wary of. But fine, I'm making it up.