Bill and Melinda Gates announce one of the biggest charitable donations in history

[dylans]

It is also worth asking why Gilead (the pharmaceutical company who will gain the most from a successful trial) provide free tenofovir for the course of the study but refuse to provide either health insurance or free anti retrovirals for trial participants who need them They will use sex workers as guinea pigs and sell the medication back to them and make a packet in the process.

The Womens Network for Unity ( Cambodia's sex workers union) put forward very reasonable demands for the trial

The Network wants insurance against possible side effects of Tenofovir for 30 years or more and not just health care for the duration of the trial. When the researchers are finished and leave Cambodia who will take responsibility for sex workers and their families who may be suffering longer term side effects

BBG said NO

WNU demanded

Investigators should ensure that research subjects who suffer injury as a result of their participation are entitled to free medical treatment for such injury and to such financial or other assistance as would compensate them equitably for any resultant impairment, disability or handicap. In the case of death as a result of their participation, their dependants are entitled to compensation. Subjects must not be asked to waive the right to compensation

BBG said NO
And the reason?
,

the researchers likely felt that the chance of long term side effects was remote and, therefore, that insurance was not necessary.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UTSLRev/2005/9.html
Thanks Bill. Cynical isn't the word! To be honest I think it is very sad that people aren't shocked that BBGF recruited vulnerable people for unethical drug trials without providing basic medical treatment for those who contract a terminal illness.

Local activists, along with their international supporters, believed the trials were being run by profit-hungry pharmaceutical companies who were coming to poor countries to do dangerous research that would later pad their own pockets and only end up benefiting people in the developed world

.
http://www.cambodia.org/blogs/editorials/labels/HIV.html

 

[claphamboy]

Hang on, just because jazzz is making criticisms of something doesn't mean that it isn't worth criticising.

True, but it's hard to take much notice of a madman that believes in miracle cures and ‘lizards’, this time in the shape of Bill Gates, that are out to get us.

We had all this miracle cures stuff months ago, I thought it was done and dusted, clearly not - the man is completely bonkers.

 

[frogwoman]

There are legitimate criticisms to be made though of "charities" that pretend to be doing good (or at least do some or eve quite a lot of good good) and mean while are furthering neo-liberal agendas either deliberately or because their sponsors/donors encourage them to do this - i mean FFS I work for one so I know it goes on , although I'm not sure that Bill Gates' foundation really falls into that category it's still a worthy topic for debate and not everyone who criticises the guy should be instantly dismissed just because jazzz or whoever disagrees with them

 

[sihhi]

By my reconing Bill Gates is a significant figure.

And he intends to make a difference with his philanthropic giving.

Good luck to him.

He wants to ensure that the weak are still controlled by the rich, but in new and exciting ways.

 

[sihhi]

He's actually giving away a vast amount of his wealth, but don't let that stop your rant.

So, what's your practical solutions?

It's not a rant. He is not a humanitarian.
Gates is giving away other people's money and private business is gaining control and leverage.

It's not for me to decide what the solution is. There are many proposed solutions to ill health, but they involve acting against concentrated private power - something the Gates Foundation can not do.

Gates has already decided what the solution is, denying the voices and labour of his own workers, and the clients he claims to speak for.

 

[sihhi]

It is also worth asking why Gilead (the pharmaceutical company who will gain the most from a successful trial) provide free tenofovir for the course of the study but refuse to provide either health insurance or free anti retrovirals for trial participants who need them They will use sex workers as guinea pigs and sell the medication back to them and make a packet in the process.

This is basically a growth area in business terms opening up new vistas of profit-making by the Foundations injecting massive amounts of capital.

From Responsible Conduct of Research By Adil E. Shamoo, David B. Resnik

There are several reasons for this increased attention to international research. ...
Private companies view international research as a profitable business enterprise. Companies can hire cheap labor (e.g., scientists and research subjects) to test their products. Companies can also take advantage of lax regulations in developing nations (Shamoo 2005, Shah 2006). International research is funded by a variety of sources, such as industry, the U.S. government (e.g., National Institutes of Health [NIH], Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC]), and private foundations such the Bill and xMelinda Gates Foundation and William J. Clinton Foundation.

 

[sihhi]

Gate's philanthropy has always been suspect such as when in 2002 Microsoft promised to provide Windows and Microsoft programmes for all schools in South Africa.

In actual fact not all 32,000 schools were given the material but only about 5,000.This ensured that other schools and centres and homes had to use and then carry on buying Microsoft to be compatible with the 5,000 schools. He cornered the market and established his monopoly excluding all others right at the start of IT expansion in South Africa.

His plans for education in America as part of the Foundation are about smashing what little local democratic control remains of schools in America and thoroughly de-unionising schools from teachers to cleaners as "charter schools".

 

[dylans]

This is basically a growth area in business terms opening up new vistas of profit-making by the Foundations injecting massive amounts of capital.

From Responsible Conduct of Research By Adil E. Shamoo, David B. Resnik

This was something that Cambodian and African sex workers suspected.

WNU’s second substantive demand was for access to tenofovir after the study, if the drug proved to be effective at preventing HIV infection.
If our members agree to take the risk, which may one day benefit people in richer countries and the drug company, then we deserve adequate protection to our future lives and families. The high cost of this drug means that even if it is successful in preventing HIV/AIDS, Cambodian sex workers will most likely never be able to afford it.[41]

The estimated daily cost of Tenofovir is about $6.00. That's over $2000 dollars a year! An impossible, astronomical figure for the poor in a country like Cambodia. Sex workers demanded access to the drugs after the trial.

The response of BBGF? No!

You, who applaud gates, are being fooled. Gates is not a philanthropist. Cambodian sex workers are not educated, they don't have access to information or the sophisticated language of International researchers who tried to bulldoze them into this trial, but they knew a rip off when they saw one and they refused to take part in the trials. They have since been joined by sex workers in Nigeria in telling Gates to piss off.

 

[Jazzz]

True, but it's hard to take much notice of a madman that believes in miracle cures and ‘lizards’, this time in the shape of Bill Gates, that are out to get us.

We had all this miracle cures stuff months ago, I thought it was done and dusted, clearly not - the man is completely bonkers.

Curious that you seem to pay so much attention to my posts then isn't it?

I look forward to your ignoring me.

 

[dylans]

Curious that you seem to pay so much attention to my posts then isn't it?

I look forward to your ignoring me.

They pay attention to your posts cus they are a bit bonkers (no offence) and easy to dismiss. Responding to you makes it easier to ignore posts by people like myself and Sihhi who have put forward a legitimate critique of BBGF.

 

[editor]

Gates is not a philanthropist.

He is, you know. You may not like how he's choosing to use his money, but by just about any definition of the word, he most certainly is a philanthropist.

That's not to say that he's immune to criticism or there's less than perfect practices going down, but the facts are straightforward:

As of 2007, Bill and Melinda Gates were the second most generous philanthropists in America, having given over $28 billion to charity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Philanthropy

 

[Jazzz]

They pay attention to your posts cus they are a bit bonkers (no offence) and easy to dismiss. Responding to you makes it easier to ignore posts by people like myself and Sihhi who have put forward a legitimate critique of BBGF.

I'll say it as I see it thank you dylans. If I need your help I'll ask for it.

 

[dylans]

He is, you know. You may not like how he's choosing to use his money, but by just about any definition of the word, he most certainly is a philanthropist.

That's not to say that he's immune to criticism or there's less than perfect practices going down, but the facts are straightforward:

The research over Tenofovir in Asia and Africa wasn't about charity. It was about using vulnerable people as guinea pigs for the future profits of the pharmaceutical companies. The people who were to be used in that research would never see benefits of that medication and they are the ones who really need it.

 

[dylans]

I'll say it as I see it thank you dylans. If I need your help I'll ask for it.

Hey no offence. I like you for what it's worth (but stuff about lizards and culling Africans doesn't help your argument mate)

 

[Jazzz]

He is, you know. You may not like how he's choosing to use his money, but by just about any definition of the word, he most certainly is a philanthropist.

That's not to say that he's immune to criticism or there's less than perfect practices going down, but the facts are straightforward:

This argument is facile. It doesn't matter that he has spent loads of money - the intention has to be pure, and the service beneficial. Tony Blair spent billions of our money on Iraq, was that humanitarian?

 

[Jazzz]

Hey no offence. I like you for what it's worth (but stuff about lizards and culling Africans doesn't help your argument mate)

umm... I don't think I mentioned lizards...

 

[dylans]

umm... I don't think I mentioned lizards...

Yeah I know. I apologise for that. I just mean that you make it easy for people to dismiss the significant stuff in your posts by surrounding them in hyperactive language which is a shame because on this I agree with a lot of what you post. (like the stuff about debt) But hey, as you said, say it as you see it.

 

[dylans]

This argument is facile. It doesn't matter that he has spent loads of money - the intention has to be pure, and the service beneficial. Tony Blair spent billions of our money on Iraq, was that humanitarian?

And on this, you are spot on.
The fact that Gates spends lots of money is irrelevant.It's the intention and the consequences of that expenditure. What is the use in spending 25 million on Tenofovir trials in Cambodia if those who really need it are never going to see the benefits

 

[editor]

This argument is facile. It doesn't matter that he has spent loads of money - the intention has to be pure, and the service beneficial. Tony Blair spent billions of our money on Iraq, was that humanitarian?

Now that's what call a facile argument!

Blair wasn't spending his own money, idiot.

 

[goldenecitrone]

the intention has to be pure

You aren't joking, are you?

 

[Jazzz]

Now that's what call a facile argument!

Blair wasn't spending his own money, idiot.

that's why I said 'humanitarian' and not 'philanthropy', dolt.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't often agree with jazzz (or dylans!) but I think he is spot on here, especially given the links sihhi and dylans have posted.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Yeah, legitimate criticisms have been made but I still don't see why Gates should be completely dismissed because the foundation has done some questionable things.

The man gave $750 million to The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. This organisation has vaccinated millions of kids and saved the lives of millions, are you really going to dispute all that because of these dodgy drug trials? Granted, clean water would help a lot but it won't solve everything, not all diseases are caused by bad water.

 

[Jazzz]

The man gave $750 million to The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. This organisation has vaccinated millions of kids and saved the lives of millions, are you really going to dispute all that because of these dodgy drug trials? Granted, clean water would help a lot but it won't solve everything, not all diseases are caused by bad water.

The truth is that vaccines are not the miracle we are constantly mesmerised into beleiving - at best, they are simply no substitute for clean water and sanitation - the real tamers of disease. At worst, they are poison.

Realising that Bill Gates is the type who doesn't have a humanitarian bone in his body might help make this clear.

 

[editor]

Realising that Bill Gates is the type who doesn't have a humanitarian bone in his body might help make this clear.

He's already saved more lives than you ever will.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

The truth is that vaccines are not the miracle we are constantly mesmerised into beleiving - at best, they are simply no substitute for clean water and sanitation - the real tamers of disease. At worst, they are poison.

Realising that Bill Gates is the type who doesn't have a humanitarian bone in his body might help make this clear.

Oh fuck off.

Note to non fucktards: The same foundation does pump millions into clean water and sanitation, but Jazzz would never mention that even though he knows it full well.

 

[fogbat]

I don't often agree with jazzz (or dylans!) but I think he is spot on here, especially given the links sihhi and dylans have posted.

There are two separate lines of argument. Conflating the two does dylans a disservice.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

They pay attention to your posts cus they are a bit bonkers (no offence) and easy to dismiss. Responding to you makes it easier to ignore posts by people like myself and Sihhi who have put forward a legitimate critique of BBGF.

You however may have a point, may, not definitely.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The truth is that vaccines are not the miracle we are constantly mesmerised into beleiving - at best, they are simply no substitute for clean water and sanitation - the real tamers of disease. At worst, they are poison.

Change the fucking record you boring tit. You've been pwned on this vaccine issue time and time and time again, yet you persist with this line that they're posion, despite ridiculously huge amounts of evidence proving otherwise.

In fact here's some evidence right now, I don't even have to link to any either because the knowledge is so well known that only a completely thick, ignorant and moronic toss bag would dispute it. Remember Polio? Ya know that disease that used to be pretty widespread in the west and hugely widespread throughout the world? Well, how often do you hear of it now? Not much you say? Can you work out why? Was it perhaps something to do with, I dunno, A FUCKING VACCINE PERHAPS?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Change the fucking record you boring tit. You've been pwned on this vaccine issue time and time and time again, yet you persist with this line that they're posion, despite ridiculously huge amounts of evidence proving otherwise.

In fact here's some evidence right now, I don't even have to link to any either because the knowledge is so well known that only a completely thick, ignorant and moronic toss bag would dispute it. Remember Polio? Ya know that disease that used to be pretty widespread in the west and hugely widespread throughout the world? Well, how often do you hear of it now? Not much you say? Can you work out why? Was it perhaps something to do with, I dunno, A FUCKING VACCINE PERHAPS?

No, of course that was just down to hygiene and clean water. He's not going to change. Incapable of learning.