Bill and Melinda Gates announce one of the biggest charitable donations in history

[editor]

You're attacking dylans without justification.

All billionaires tear apart humanity, Gates is no exception.

Gates self-aggrandisement - a museum in his honour.
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2009/11...dation-need-a-500-million-shrine/tab/article/

Gates' failures in India
http://www.business.in.com/article/cross-border/how-bill-gates-blew-$258-million-in-indias-hiv-corridor/852/0


but private parasitic firm McKinsey made profit out of the ventures.

You haven't answered my questions in relation to your points. Please do.

 

[sihhi]

So you don't actually know what percentage of Gates' charitable donations have been used for these trials, what his direct involvement is, or if he is even aware of the criticism?
Could you elaborate on this please? How has his wealth "destroyed" people?

Some might argue that by giving the world the most popular operating system and facilitating cheap computing an awful lot of people's lives have immeasurably benefited but I'm sure you've got a well researched answer to rebuff some a crazy notion.

His wealth means others' poverty.

I support Gates as an inventor, but as a company owner and a manager, he destroyed rival innovations, ruthlessly extracted surplus from his workforce and used this operating system monopoly for the purpose of profit. He didn't give people things, any more than Carnegie gave bridges and buildings with his steelmaking techniques.

 

[dylans]

editor;10397105]So you don't actually know what percentage of Gates' charitable donations have been used for these trials, what his direct involvement is, or if he is even aware of the criticism?

Relatively small percentage of his overrall donations. Upwards of $10 million dollars for the Cambodian and Cameroon projects, mainly through donations to Family Health International. Although I am not sure of what relevance the percentage is considering it is the ethics of the trials that is in question not the amount donated. (Although it is revealing that the reason given for refusing basic health care to the participants was that it was too expensive)

From the BMGF own website (which interestingly contains no information about the cancellation of these trials)

Family Health International
Date: May 2005
Purpose: to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of oral tenofovir for HIV prevention in Africa
Amount: $6,989,223
Term: 4 years and 5 months
Topic: HIV/AIDS
Region Served: Africa, Asia, Global
Program: Global Health
Grantee Location: Durham, North Carolina
Grantee Web site: http://www.fhi.org

SEATTLE and RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, N.C. -- The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation announced today that it has awarded Family Health International (FHI) a $6.5 million, three-year grant for a multinational clinical trial to evaluate an antiretroviral treatment as a novel approach to HIV prevention. The trial will focus on sexually active adults in resource-poor countries with high HIV incidence.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/pres...alth-international-receives-grant-021028.aspx

From other sources.

Cambodian Study
NIH and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation also are funding studies of Viread (Kaiser Daily HIV/AIDS Report, 2/7). NIH in March 2004 awarded a $2.1 million grant to University of California-San Francisco researchers to test Viread in 960 Cambodian women, most of whom were commercial sex workers.

Cameroonian Study
The Gates Foundation also awarded a $6.5 million grant to Family Health International to conduct a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial of Viread including 2,000 HIV-negative volunteers at sites in Cambodia, Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria and Malawi (Kaiser Daily HIV/AIDS Report, 2/7). However, Cameroon's Ministry of Health last month announced that it had suspended the trial, which involved HIV-negative commercial sex workers in the city of Douala,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bse303/96696007/in/set-72157594259609511/

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UTSLRev/2005/9.html

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=25223



Given that the trial (at least in Cambodia and Cameroon) was primarily funded by the BMGF, and given the enormous publicity caused by the fact that the trials were cancelled in 3 countries amidst allegations of unethical behaviour, I think it is reasonable to assume he and the BMGF are aware of the criticism.

What is also interesting is that the Bill Gates Foundation strategic overview 2005 to 2009. Says NOTHING about the cancellation of these trials except to mention that they were stopped

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/global-health/Documents/hiv-strategy.pdf

(note. Viread is the commercial name for tenofovir)

 

[editor]

Relatively small percentage of his overrall donations.

So there's a reasnable chance that he may not even be aware of the controversy. Have you emailed him or the foundation to point out your concerns? What did they say?

And do you think there's maybe a chance people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater when they line up to make demonstrably untrue comments like the one below:

He didn't give people things, any more than Carnegie gave bridges and buildings with his steelmaking techniques.

 

[Jazzz]

Funnily enough, the only results Google throws up for that are whale.to, doctoryourself.com, your post I've quoted and a reference to whale.to and someone having a rant about Jesus.

Well done Jazzz

*slow hand clap*

Are you really this fucking stupid?

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It appears John is the Jazzz of the medkb forum .

You are all idiots!

Has it not occurred to you that millions of pages of old journals, medical or otherwise, are not to be found on the internet?

In your tiny google-warrior minds, if something isn't on the internet, it doesn't exist, does it?

Here is Klenner's wikipedia entry.

In 1949 Klenner published in and presented a paper to the American Medical Association detailing the complete cure of 60 out of 60 of his patients with polio using intravenous sodium ascorbate injection [7] Galloway and Seifert cited Klenner's presentation to the AMA in a paper of theirs. [8] Generally, he gave 350 to 700 mg per kilogram body weight per day.

He described giving up to 300,000 milligrams (mg) per day of neutral pH sodium ascorbate. Klenner published 27 medical papers, most about vitamin C applications for over 30 diseases, two about treatment of severe neuropathies including multiple sclerosis using aggressive supplementation [9] . He wrote a 28th paper ca 1980, an unpublished update about MS treatment. It was posthumously summarized by Lendon Smith in the Clinical Guide to the Use of Vitamin C.

His maxim: the patient should "get large doses of vitamin C in all pathological conditions while the physician ponders the diagnosis."

Of course, you will all backtrack on that seamlessly, and shamelessy. But let's note that it's funny also that all you can do is nitpick my comments on polio, whereas a hand-waving 'polio vaccination works because.... it just does' is worshipped as the very fount of logic.

Are you guys capable of independent thought at all?

Wake the fuck up!

 

[dylans]

So there's a reasnable chance that he may not even be aware of the controversy. Have you emailed him or the foundation to point out your concerns? What did they say?

And do you think there's maybe a chance people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater when they line up to make demonstrably untrue comments like the one below:

The controversy surrounding tenofivir was world wide news and reported in every major paper in the world. They involved government interventions in 2 countries in two continents and the cancellation of major drug trials. The trials were funded by his foundation. Is it not reasonable to hold him and his foundation responsible for that which is done in his name?

Attempts to pretend these actions were somehow carried out without the knowledge of him or of his foundation are as absurd as they are desperate.They paid the bills. They knew exactly what was going on. Even when the trial was cancelled in Cambodia and Cameroon, still they continued. They didn't count on either the courage or the political sophistication of the women involved who read the small print and told him and his unethical drug trials to fuck off

 

[dylans]

Have you emailed him or the foundation to point out your concerns? What did they say?

Coming from someone who couldn't even "be arsed" to read the document written by the sex workers involved in the trial, that's a bit rich.

 

[editor]

Attempts to pretend these actions were somehow carried out without the knowledge of him or of his foundation are as absurd as they are desperate

Who's "pretending"?

I posited a reasonable question. You say you know the answer.

 

[editor]

Coming from someone who couldn't even "be arsed" to read the document written by the sex workers involved in the trial, that's a bit rich.

There really is no logic to that point, you know. Including a précis to links to PDF files is a consideration to other users, and seeing as I hate the things, I never click on them if I can help it.

 

[dylans]

Who's "pretending"?

I posited a reasonable question. You say you know the answer.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the BMGF are fully aware of a major controversy surrounding the ethics of a serious drug trail that they support, fund and continue to support.

 

[editor]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the BMGF are fully aware of a major controversy surrounding the ethics of a serious drug trail that they support, fund and continue to support.

There must be loads of interviews with Bill Gates where this major controversy is brought up. I'd love to read some of them to get his side of the story and see how he explains/defends his policies.

Have you any links?

 

[dylans]

There really is no logic to that point, you know. Including a précis to links to PDF files is a consideration to other users, and seeing as I hate the things, I never click on them if I can help it.

The entire post was sourced from that document and included two lengthy quotes. It was produced to give the Womens Network for Unity's (the Cambodian sex workers union) perspective on the controversy. It includes step by step questions and answers to the questions surrounding the trial and explains their objections.
I would urge anyone interested in their perspective to read it and to watch the video that they produced too. They are both powerful and compelling accounts of the struggles of a group of people who too often are ignored and marginalised.
(how's that )

http://blip.tv/file/1418090
http://www.womynsagenda.org/publicat...from WNU.pdf

 

[dylans]

There must be loads of interviews with Bill Gates where this major controversy is brought up. I'd love to read some of them to get his side of the story and see how he explains/defends his policies.

Have you any links?

I'd love to see one too. I actually checked the BMGF website in vain for any mention of the controversy.Apart from a one sentence mention that trials were cancelled early, I found nothing. I will keep looking and let you know if I find one.

As to your implied suggestion that the trials were not really much of an issue. Here are several links to international news stories about the controversy

Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/22/AR2006052201190.html

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/health/3562704.stm

In addition France aired a documentary on the trials in Cameroon
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1472-698x-5-6.pdf

In addition there are countless articles on the controversy in medical journals such a lancet etc.

Hey Perhaps Bill doesn't read the papers or watch the news.

 

[Jazzz]

Yes well done Jazz. Bill Gates would be very impressed. You have managed to distract people from serious and legitimate criticisms of BBGF by descending into bollocks speak again. If I was a conspiro-nut I would suspect you were planted by the "lizards" to discredit their opponents. Well done

Well as you can now see dylans - I was speaking the truth.

How do you feel about being swept along by the mocking chorus?



The trouble is, from where I am, I don't have this luxury of taking the 'easy option' of deriding Gates' motives, while not addressing the real problem of whether all that vaccination is really such a miracle.

 

[dylans]

Well as you can now see dylans - I was speaking the truth.

How do you feel about being swept along by the mocking chorus?



The trouble is, from where I am, I don't have this luxury of taking the 'easy option' of deriding Gates' motives, while not addressing the real problem of whether all that vaccination is really such a miracle.

Your'e a distraction Jazz, a useful idiot for those who wish to discredit legitimate criticism of Gates. Notice how many times people attacking my argument have tried to mix my argument with yours?

For the record. I have nothing to do with the bonkers loonyism of Jazz. Please confine any criticism of my posts to things that I post please. Thank you.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

You are all idiots!

Has it not occurred to you that millions of pages of old journals, medical or otherwise, are not to be found on the internet?

In your tiny google-warrior minds, if something isn't on the internet, it doesn't exist, does it?

Here is Klenner's wikipedia entry.

Do you not think that it would've been posted on the Internet if it was that important?

Your argument that polio vaccine instead of vitamin c was used for profit falls completely on its arse when taking into account that the polio vaccine was never patented

Of course, you will all backtrack on that seamlessly, and shamelessy. But let's note that it's funny also that all you can do is nitpick my comments on polio, whereas a hand-waving 'polio vaccination works because.... it just does' is worshipped as the very fount of logic.

Are you guys capable of independent thought at all?

Wake the fuck up!

It does work you fucking moron, why do you think polio has been all but eradicated? Jesus fucking christ what a thick twat you are . You're off your fucking head, Jazzz. Why don't you try for once posting something credible? Something either from a credible website that doesn't involve whale.to, or something that uses a study that isn't 60 years old and one that can't be found anywhere on the Internet. Journal entries of any use are all online in journal databases.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Jazzz, you seem to think vaccines should be done away with and that nutrition is the answer to all the ills. Well here's a fun fact for you. African tribes, particularly san bush people, had extraordinarily nutritious diets and relatively clean water, and yet they still died mainly in their mid 30s - early 40s. Why do you think that is Jazzz? Could it be because they had fuck all health care and tried to cure themselves of any ailments by rubbing sweat all over each other whilst dancing?

 

[Jazzz]

Your'e a distraction Jazz, a useful idiot for those who wish to discredit legitimate criticism of Gates. Notice how many times people attacking my argument have tried to mix my argument with yours?

For the record. I have nothing to do with the bonkers loonyism of Jazz. Please confine any criticism of my posts to things that I post please. Thank you.

Why don't you say what you want to say, I'll say what I want to say, and if anyone is stupid enough to think we are the same person, laugh at them.

But if you want to snipe at something of mine, and then I prove it correct, as is done here, you should have good grace to concede the point.

 

[Jazzz]

Do you not think that it would've been posted on the Internet if it was that important?*

Dear god, don't tell me you are still disputing the fact. Haven't you noticed that everyone else shut up?

Your argument that polio vaccine instead of vitamin c was used for profit falls completely on its arse when taking into account that the polio vaccine was never patented

I made no such argument, preventing polio and curing polio are different issues. Where I said 'profits came first', that means that they weren't about to destroy vast stocks of vaccine due to SV-40 contamination - which was scandalous.

It does work you fucking moron, why do you think polio has been all but eradicated? Jesus fucking christ what a thick twat you are . You're off your fucking head, Jazzz.

So has scarlet fever, was that due to the vaccine?

Maybe you should have a look at your own reasoning capabilities.

 

[dylans]

Well done jazz. Well done. You are a fucking gift to the defenders of the BMGF

 

[Blagsta]

You are all idiots!

Has it not occurred to you that millions of pages of old journals, medical or otherwise, are not to be found on the internet?

In your tiny google-warrior minds, if something isn't on the internet, it doesn't exist, does it?

Here is Klenner's wikipedia entry.



Of course, you will all backtrack on that seamlessly, and shamelessy. But let's note that it's funny also that all you can do is nitpick my comments on polio, whereas a hand-waving 'polio vaccination works because.... it just does' is worshipped as the very fount of logic.

Are you guys capable of independent thought at all?

Wake the fuck up!

Jesus wept.

 

[Jazzz]

Well done jazz. Well done. You are a fucking gift to the defenders of the BMGF

How are you going to get people to stop accepting their gifts without pointing out that they are a sack of shit?

 

[Jazzz]

Jesus wept.

Do you have a point, caller?

 

[TAE]

$10bn!!!

Good for them.

 

[Blagsta]

Do you have a point, caller?

Yes. You're a fucking loon.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Has it not occurred to you that millions of pages of old journals, medical or otherwise, are not to be found on the internet?

Oh my god, you really are this fucking stupid.

 

[Blagsta]

Oh my god, you really are this fucking stupid.

...and then refers to a Wikipedia article. Classic.

 

[London_Calling]

Jazzz - is there a subject you're educated in, or is everything always going to be ad hoc, opinion-driven garbage intended to fuel a longing for attention? Edward de Bono you might want to be but, really, you make a fool of yourself in every thread.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Dear god, don't tell me you are still disputing the fact. Haven't you noticed that everyone else shut up?

Yes, Jazzz, everyone shut up because you're ABSOLUTELY correct

Maybe they shut up because they can't be fucked with you anymore? Have you noticed how pretty much all your posts now just elicit repeated as a reply? As opposed to the old replies where people bothered to challenge you? You're so fucking blinkered that I don't think people can be arsed anymore.

I made no such argument, preventing polio and curing polio are different issues. Where I said 'profits came first', that means that they weren't about to destroy vast stocks of vaccine due to SV-40 contamination - which was scandalous.

Fuck sake

So has scarlet fever, was that due to the vaccine?

Because it was found that penicillin worked better
I suppose you have a conspiracy theory about penicillin too?

Maybe you should have a look at your own reasoning capabilities.

Once again

Interesting how you completely ignored my post about the San Bushmen.

I feel sorry for you dylans, you did actually have some valid criticisms but our resident conspiraloon, fact free toss pot hijacked them.

 

[Citizen66]

Jazzz, you seem to think vaccines should be done away with <snip>

Is he a $cientologist?