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BBC - Owen Jones

butchersapron said:
Perfect example of where your incoherence and habit of offering different logics and justification to different audiences gets you. I'm talking about your position before the election which was hostile, saying he opened the door to the edl, you then accused him of theft and fraud and so on, then continuing on to predict he would have no role to play in the final outcome. Afterwards you switched to being cautiously supportive.
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My position hasn't really changed. How does hostility to Galloway as an individual equate to uncritical support of the local Labour party? The result wasn't one I anticipated, but I'm abivalent as to what it represents - it's negative insofar as Galloway is a recruiting gift for the EDL, positive insofar as it may kick the local Labour party into sorting itself out.
 
Delroy Booth said:
This is where you've got your Labour goggles on. Only when compared to the rest of the Labour party could the LRC ever be described as energetic and relevant. I tell you now, when i was there they were the last two words on my mind.
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Well it's not perfect - it needs to up its game, as we all do.
 
articul8 said:
My position hasn't really changed. How does hostility to Galloway as an individual equate to uncritical support of the local Labour party? The result wasn't one I anticipated, but I'm abivalent as to what it represents - it's negative insofar as Galloway is a recruiting gift for the EDL, positive insofar as it may kick the local Labour party into sorting itself out.
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And here we have that re-writing. Viciously libelous hostility was really ambivalence.
 
articul8 said:
I can't remember what I said - I was surprised that Galloway won. And not entirely delighted, that's true enough.
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I wasn't surprised. The week before the by-election, it was pretty apparent that Labour hadn't done enough work on the ground. On the Tuesday, Galloway was telling his Twitter followers that a victory for him was a certainty and to place your bets now.
 
Galloway is an effective political operator - at least until it requires long term unglamorous graft at community level. I don't remember ever denying that. But I still wouldn't touch him with a bargepole in terms of his standards of integrity.

Where's this abrupt shift in position?
 
I could say the same thing about many Labour politicians: all full of fine words but when push comes to shove, there's fuck all behind the rhetoric.
 
terrible article - I'm sure it has nothing to do with Lansman being on the losing side in the debate.

(I don't recall Ted Knight even being there!)
 
The politics of the article are indeed terrible. But it's interesting enough in terms of information. I didn't know that anyone can show up and vote at Labour Briefing meetings or the the vote on the LRC merger was extremely close.
 
That part was clear from the article. I hadn't realised the degree to which the various remaining organisations of the Labour left are basically the same people wearing different hats. The distinctions seem to be more about which group they put the most emphasis on.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
That part was clear from the article. I hadn't realised the degree to which the various remaining organisations of the Labour left are basically the same people wearing different hats. The distinctions seem to be more about which group they put the most emphasis on.
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It's like the Morcombe and Wise film where they have all these dummies behind the battlements and run round changing their hats and firing rifles from behind each one.
 
So the pole is dying on it's arse despite the demand that you point out exists for it to live etc. Wow, you've publicly taken the piss. Out of someone you congratulated on getting the position in the shadow cabinet that allowed them to do this. Thanks you so much. Does't make you think twice or that taking the piss is not a decent response. I can list the stuff that your party have done, propose to do, and will do and all you will be able to do is publicity take the piss.
 
Fucking hell - read the thread. Briefing is dying on its arse, not the LRC.

As to Stephen Twigg taking the piss is a perfectly decent, if not sufficient, response.
 
So, the pole now has something that's dying on its arse as it's main voice. Onwards.

I wasn't talking so much of the response but the situation that tits like you got yourself into that ensure people like Twigg will always run rings around you. But i'm all ears for your sufficient response. As a socialist militant within the labour party what is your sufficient response?
 
'John McDonnell MP, Chair of the LRC and always keen to smoothe over differences within the LRC, said “Whatever happens in this room, whatever the decision, we leave here as comrades.”

great guy....

though any title with 'labour' in it is going o struggle...
 
treelover said:
though any title with 'labour' in it is going o struggle...
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I think LRC being involved with it should open it out to non-Labour or extra-Labour (not so much anti-Labour) perspectives - one reason I think people like Christine Shawcroft weren't keen. They really do want it to be about reporting on the latest updates from NPF reps etc (oh dear God :()

Having said that, it will now be the organ of one particular organisation. If only there were a left magazine which was open to people of all left traditions, looked great, and carried analysis that left the rest of the national mags in the shade. Oh, hang on....;)
 
butchersapron said:
As a socialist militant within the labour party what is your sufficient response?
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The response will be to stop people like this - however nice they might be personally - from getting parachuted into working class constituencies with which they have no links and are incapable of either understanding or representing. Personally, I think the idea of mandatory re-selection had a lot going for it.
 
So a) the response is nothing - it's not something that you can carry out and b) it's something the centre stopped you being able to do and will never let happen over 30 years ago.

Great. Look at my pole.
 
Well it's a long term objective. In the short term it's possible and necessary for the unions to start finding, training and working to select working class candidates. I think they ought to commit to taking the average London workers wage as a measure of their commitment.
 
articul8 said:
The response will be to stop people like this - however nice they might be personally - from getting parachuted into working class constituencies with which they have no links and are incapable of either understanding or representing. Personally, I think the idea of mandatory re-selection had a lot going for it.
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So all you need is an influx of working class radicals into the Labour Party, determined to vote out these MPs, plus the massive redemocratisation of the Labour Party to allow that to happen. Perhaps you'll follow that up by mobilising an army of goblins and pixies to storm Westminster?
 
articul8 said:
Well it's a long term objective. In the short term it's possible and necessary for the unions to start finding, training and working to select working class candidates. I think they ought to commit to taking the average London workers wage as a measure of their commitment.
Click to expand...
How long term is your project?

What's your immediate response as a socialist militant in the party to what your party has committed to?
 
a)mild desparation
b)taking the piss
c)talking to the teaching unions about resisting it and mobilising support in parliament for the idea to be dropped (there is already a fair bit of unease about Twigg's role)
d) beginning to articulate a socialist education policy based on non-selective schools under well-run LEAs.
e) lobbying for the exclusion of the idea from the NPF/PiP documents and the next manifesto and the adoption of d)
 
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