BBC - Owen Jones

[butchersapron]

a)mild desparation
b)taking the piss
c)talking to the teaching unions about resisting it and mobilising support in parliament for the idea to be dropped (there is already a fair bit of unease about Twigg's role)
d) beginning to articulate a socialist education policy based on non-selective schools under well-run LEAs.

So, fuck all as it's nothing to do with you. And fuck all that doesn't mention labour. Why Not?

Are you in the teacher role on the the last 2?

Unease about Twigg's role? Did you not notice the unease about Twigg full-stop when you were bigging his talents up?

 

[articul8]

Twigg would be a decent, good even, constitutional minister. He'd be disaster on anything around foreign affairs or public services.

 

[articul8]

The teaching unions aren't Labour. And where have I said Labour policy ought to be made without reference to people outside the party? FFS

 

[nino_savatte]

Twigg is an abysmal man.

 

[butchersapron]

The teaching unions aren't Labour. And where have I said Labour policy ought to be made without reference to people outside the party? FFS

The point was that you didn't mention labour because you as a socialist militant in labour can do nothing about labour as a member - despite your argument being that militants should join labour as they can change things in labour. You know they can't.

You offer some waffle about a future change through re-selection - i ask when this will happen (leaving aside how and that the party has stopped this) - silence.

 

[articul8]

when will this happen? When the balance of forces makes its possible. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that it can't and won't happen if you stay outside.

 

[audiotech]

Good grief a Bennite without Tony Benn.

 

[butchersapron]

when will this happen? When the balance of forces makes its possible. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that it can't and won't happen if you stay outside.

So no timetable - no realism.

OK, given that the people at the centre of the party got rid 40 years ago, do you envisgae it happening withion the next 40 years? And of course ignoring the decades worth of work to get to that point where the centre just flicked a finger and said bye. So we're ta;king 60 years at the very very least right?

 

[articul8]

There could be a new generation of Bennites - even be people who were leaning right in government could get swept along by a powerful extra-parliamentary force.

As St Luke said, with god nothing is impossible I'm not suggesting *waiting* for this to happen, I'm suggesting building up the maximum possible extra-parliamentary influence to drag Labour along in its wake

 

[butchersapron]

There could be a new generation of Bennites - even be people who were leaning right in government could get swept along by a powerful extra-parliamentary force.

As St Luke said, with god nothing is impossible

So no answer? Even after repeated prodding? Even after saying people are crying out for it? And why not? You know as well as i why not. You can't say what time-scale that your plan works on. It's at least 80 years plus though.

Just stop this shit.

 

[articul8]

I'm not going to make promises that can't be kept. I don't argue that the balance of political work should be tipped towards activism inside the Labour party right now- anything but.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not going to make promises that can't be kept. I don't argue that the balance of political work should be tipped towards activism inside the Labour party - anything but.

I don't want your promise. You push the idea that you have a plan and others don't - when prodded on it, you have nothing. Zero. Zilch. You don't even have a plan to defend your plan. Fuck off, you are a shambles.

 

[Delroy Booth]

There could be a new generation of Bennites

No doubt there could be, but why would they want to join the Labour party?

 

[butchersapron]

There could be a new generation of Bennites - even be people who were leaning right in government could get swept along by a powerful extra-parliamentary force.

As St Luke said, with god nothing is impossible I'm not suggesting *waiting* for this to happen, I'm suggesting building up the maximum possible extra-parliamentary influence to drag Labour along in its wake

Let's all focus on the party i'm a member of - and do stuff to make people vote and join it. In 2012.

 

[articul8]

I'm precisely NOT saying focus on the Labour party right now - I'm saying that it's an important space to contest because it's the only alternative to the coalition parties, but by far the biggest priority is extra-parliamentary struggle. The Labour leadership must be led, unwillingly in all likelihood.

 

[mk12]

I'm precisely NOT saying focus on the Labour party right now - I'm saying that it's an important space to contest because it's the only alternative to the coalition parties, but by far the biggest priority is extra-parliamentary struggle. The Labour leadership must be led, unwillingly in all likelihood.

What "extra-parliamentary struggle" are you referring to?

 

[butchersapron]

As St Luke said, with god nothing is impossible I'm not suggesting *waiting* for this to happen, I'm suggesting building up the maximum possible extra-parliamentary influence to drag Labour along in its wake

The aim = to drag the labour party somewhere careerist cunts like you feel happy with. That's focusing on labour. It's aim is totally about changing labour.

You literally just said it.

 

[articul8]

I'm referring to trade union militancy and - just as importantly - community action, service users, disabled people, carers, pensioners and all the rest of it resisting cuts and austerity.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm referring to trade union militancy and - just as importantly - community action, service users, disabled people, carers, pensioners and all the rest of it resisting cuts and austerity.

I'm suggesting building up the maximum possible extra-parliamentary influence to drag Labour along in its wake

To vote labour.

 

[revol68]

I fucking wish I could totally sell out and start hanging around the left bubble, certainly would help my job prospects.

 

[articul8]

The aim = to drag the labour party somewhere careerist cunts like you feel happy with. That's focusing on labour. It's aim is totally about changing labour.

You literally just said it.

That's a welcome side-effect of building up solidary and militancy *which is important in its own right*. It isn't to subordinate all activity to influencing Labour.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm referring to trade union militancy and - just as importantly - community action, service users, disabled people, carers, pensioners and all the rest of it resisting cuts and austerity.

- just as importantly -

soft voice here

 

[articul8]

I fucking wish I could totally sell out and start hanging around the left bubble, certainly would help my job prospects.

Sell out? I don't think so. I'm going to take a massive cut in salary to take up a job that I think is politically important. And I don't expect it to advance my career inside the Labour party either.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a welcome side-effect of building up solidary and militancy *which is important in its own right*. It isn't to subordinate all activity to influencing Labour.

What is and what isn't? You literally just said that all this lovely sexy work was only to help labour. Did you forget who you were talking to tonight?

 

[revol68]

Sell out? I don't think so. I'm going to take a massive cut in salary to take up a job that I think is politically important. And I don't expect it to advance my career inside the Labour party either.

The fact you can talk about getting a job that suits your politics says it all.

Cunt.

 

[butchersapron]

Sell out? I don't think so. I'm going to take a massive cut in salary to take up a job that I think is politically important. And I don't expect it to advance my career inside the Labour party either.

Oh brilliant, have you got a labour party job now?

 

[articul8]

I didn't say it was only, or principally, to help Labour. That is an important but secondary consequence.

 

[articul8]

Oh brilliant, have you got a labour party job now?

yes and no.

 

[butchersapron]

yes and no.

Well say what it is. You disgust me either way.

 

[articul8]

in that case you won't care