BBC license fee ‘to be abolished in 2027’. What will that mean?

[YouSir]

That's kinda why I suspect R4 will go. Costs virtually nothing, but doesn't get publicity.

People will protest, but what are they going to do, withhold their licence fee? Complain and... what? Be called a Karen if they admit their complaint in public? Nothing else will happen.

And because lots of older people like it it'll be "OK boomers." "Use podcasts." People with privileges they absolutely refuse they to admit that they have will offer useless advice and laugh at anyone who can't follow it.

Sorry. The licence fee is regressive, but the way to change it is not by Tory fiat that makes it clear that the BBC is going to have to lick the govt's boots to get any funding for any services whatsoever. Changes put in place by Tory govts are always only in favour of the rich.

R4 will be the last of the radio stations to go I'd have thought, older and wealthier demographic, BBC and Tories alike would be loathe to offend them.

 

[Curiouscarl]

Um, you're criticising trainees for their lack of experience?

No. worse.
They don't care. They don't want to be nurses. They want to be like the people on TV.
I worked with a Nurse who had no experience before becoming a nurse. Her apathy towards people was frightening.
We needed things from the nurse's office once. She was the only one who was legally allowed in there.
She couldn't be fucked and didn't go.
You're told before you go to Uni. Get experience before you go into this field. Go to a Nursing home or some other setting.

 

[Humberto]

IME nurses and other NHS staff go above and beyond, particularly and notably throughout the pandemic. Their remuneration and support however is 'apathetic' on the government's part.

 

[Dom Traynor]

In New Zealand (obviously baring in mind we're a much smaller country with much less money) we have a range of publicly funded media avenues the best of which is probably NZ on Air who fund local creators to make TV and radio for any broadcaster from local state owned to Netflix, as well as some state owned broadcasters funded by a mixture of general government funding pool and advertising and sponsorship. And shows can also be funded by a mix of models, depending on what is appropriate.

Of course nothing is perfect but it feels like a much more balanced and cost effective model and in an economy the size of the UKs it could under the right leadership lead to massive improvements in output from a progressive point of view.

 

[tommers]

Whatever the new funding model is, and I agree that there does need to be a new model, it's going to involve cuts. And that's where I'm not so optimistic. They're not going to cut Strictly, for instance. Don't want to pick on Strictly particularly, but it's an example of a popular 'star'-driven show whose main presenters are paid a lot of money. They are unlikely, in fact, to particularly question their 'talent' payment model of light entertainment, which does involve paying people huge sums. They'll do what they always do when they're making cuts. They'll target the likes of Radio 6 or Radio 3 again, despite the fact that they cost a fraction of the money of the light entertainment TV. They've already gutted BBC4 and made it incredibly uninteresting.

Bottom line is that I don't trust the BBC to figure out that some of the most interesting and most challenging TV isn't expensive to make but does involve a bit of imagination.

Isn't that exactly the problem? All the other television commissioners only care about audience share, advertising revenue etc etc. So things like Strictly (which , by the way, millions of people absolutely fucking love) are what is produced. Radio 6, Radio 4, Radio 3, BBC 4, BBC 3 etc etc etc all go out the window. The licence fee is exactly what allows that stuff to happen. Otherwise it's just another ITV. The way it is funded is what gives it the ability to do stuff like handle about 30% of my kids' homeschooling during the first lockdown, or make some documentary about somebody I've never bloody heard of.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Isn't that exactly the problem? All the other television commissioners only care about audience share, advertising revenue etc etc. So things like Strictly (which , by the way, millions of people absolutely fucking love) are what is produced. Radio 6, Radio 4, Radio 3, BBC 4, BBC 3 etc etc etc all go out the window. The licence fee is exactly what allows that stuff to happen. Otherwise it's just another ITV. The way it is funded is what gives it the ability to do stuff like handle about 30% of my kids' homeschooling during the first lockdown, or make some documentary about somebody I've never bloody heard of.

I guess my point there is a gripe about 'star' wages. Can they be justified within a licence-fee-paid model? It's nothing new, of course, and I don't have a good answer. Morecambe and Wise were the highest paid stars on TV when they were on the BBC. But when 'stars' include run of the mill presenters, I would suggest that something has gone wrong. The BBC concept of 'talent' is flawed.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I never paid the licence fee once in 15 years when I lived in the UK, so I would totally support scrapping it. It's a regressive tax on the poor in order to fund centrist news propaganda and Jimmy Saville noncery.

I think this could be a real vote winner for the Tories if Labour get sucked into a pointless argument over it.

I agree. I stopped watching the utter shite that is telly atleast 12 years ago. It's a pile of wank, and it's only got worse over time (the vast majority of it anyway - it's extremely rare that there's anything worth watching).

 

[Curiouscarl]

IME nurses and other NHS staff go above and beyond, particularly and notably throughout the pandemic. Their remuneration and support however is 'apathetic' on the government's part.

I agree. They called them essential workers. But their fundamental workers. Without them, we'd be absolutely fucked.

And the knock on effect of, low pay, under appreciated, yadda yadda. Is that, good Nurses and Doctors are leaving in the droves.

While the politicians get consistent pay rises. Nurses are clapping for.

I did buy 3 houses with all the claps I bottled though.

 

[Humberto]

Thank you masked mans

 

[keybored]

In New Zealand (obviously baring in mind we're a much smaller country with much less money) we have a range of publicly funded media avenues the best of which is probably NZ on Air who fund local creators to make TV and radio for any broadcaster from local state owned to Netflix, as well as some state owned broadcasters funded by a mixture of general government funding pool and advertising and sponsorship. And shows can also be funded by a mix of models, depending on what is appropriate.

That's how you ended up with gems like Bad Taste decades ago and we're still getting shovelled dirge like Line of Duty to this day

 

[Balbi]

In New Zealand (obviously baring in mind we're a much smaller country with much less money) we have a range of publicly funded media avenues the best of which is probably NZ on Air who fund local creators to make TV and radio for any broadcaster from local state owned to Netflix, as well as some state owned broadcasters funded by a mixture of general government funding pool and advertising and sponsorship. And shows can also be funded by a mix of models, depending on what is appropriate.

Of course nothing is perfect but it feels like a much more balanced and cost effective model and in an economy the size of the UKs it could under the right leadership lead to massive improvements in output from a progressive point of view.

lmao yeah but when we did do a journalism fund to solve the problem of declining media revenues the right have gone fucking psycho about the govt paying journalists to do journalism

 

[Dom Traynor]

lmao yeah but when we did do a journalism fund to solve the problem of declining media revenues the right have gone fucking psycho about the govt paying journalists to do journalism

Yeah of course, certain on the right are ideologically opposed to any public funding of anything so...

 

[mauvais]

It's probably got big downsides, but if I were asked to pay 4 quid a month for iPlayer, for instance, I would. I watch it more than Netflix, which is six quid a month.

The equivalent Netflix subscription is £10 (HD) or arguably £14 (4K) a month.

Netflix's economic model is also not sustainable.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This video, from the pre-cancellation age, is warmly nostalgic, almost of another epoch in fact, but also reminds us that the concept of public service broadcasting is ultimately one worth defending against scum like Johnson and his pals in media corp:

 

[AmateurAgitator]

This video, from the pre-cancellation age, is warmly nostalgic, almost of another epoch in fact, but also reminds us that the concept of public service broadcasting is ultimately one worth defending against scum like Johnson and his pals in media corp:

I refuse to be lectured, patronised to and told what to think by the privileged, pompous Cleese.

 

[pogofish]

R4 will be the last of the radio stations to go I'd have thought, older and wealthier demographic, BBC and Tories alike would be loathe to offend them.

It is maybe the station most likely to be sold-off more or less as-is as a standalone brand to more reactionary aspects of the media, who could see their status boosted by its standing with their target market. Other stations are more difficult to separate from commercial alternatives these days and easier to swallow-up/replace with their existing content.

Similarly Radio 3 for media looking for a more "cultured" focus.

 

[pogofish]

Don't they still let Capita do the dirty work?

Yup - I had dealings with them just last year over my late mother's licence. She died just a few weeks before her free licence expired, so they went after her and then me as her executor (because I had written to properly inform them!) for not renewing it and It took a fair number of attempts before I finally got to someone who would accept her demise!

 

[Pickman's model]

No. worse.
They don't care. They don't want to be nurses. They want to be like the people on TV.
I worked with a Nurse who had no experience before becoming a nurse. Her apathy towards people was frightening.
We needed things from the nurse's office once. She was the only one who was legally allowed in there.
She couldn't be fucked and didn't go.
You're told before you go to Uni. Get experience before you go into this field. Go to a Nursing home or some other setting.

anecdote is not persuasive evidence

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree. I stopped watching the utter shite that is telly atleast 12 years ago. It's a pile of wank, and it's only got worse over time (the vast majority of it anyway - it's extremely rare that there's anything worth watching).

there is a programme which all urbanites should be watching this evening

BBC Two - Natural World, Short Versions, Penguin Post Office

Documentary looking at a post office in Antarctica that is surrounded by 3,000 penguins.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[pogofish]

I refuse to be lectured, patronised to and told what to think by the privileged, pompous Cleese.

TBF, Cleese had not really begun to reveal the depths of his pompousness/politics at that point.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm very concerned what will happen to the position of the BBC's Northern Correspondent.

 

[Raheem]

I'm very concerned what will happen to the position of the BBC's Northern Correspondent.

View attachment 306357

It will be like those Japanese soldiers who didn't find out the war had ended, I expect.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm very concerned what will happen to the position of the BBC's Northern Correspondent.

View attachment 306357

the bbc's north of england correspondent is a woman

 

[Ĝasper]

And payments from the government will be dependent on them not being critical

This is the Spanish system

 

[chilango]

The BBC exists to manufacture, and impose, a legitimate British culture. One that has tended to be white, conservative and middle-class. It inculcates the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment.

It is, and apologies for the use of Althusser here, an ideological state apparatus par excellence.

 

[chilango]

...and it's deeply worrying to see responses here, and especially elsewhere, walking into the same trap that Brexit laid. A defence of the BBC based upon liberal middle-class tastes with same appeals to cultural and intellectual authority blindly pushing those who don't get the same value out of the institution into the arms of the latest slash n burn, disaster capitalist enterprise of market extremists.

 

[The39thStep]

The BBC exists to manufacture, and impose, a legitimate British culture. One that has tended to be white, conservative and middle-class. It inculcates the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment.

It is, and apologies for the use of Althusser here, an ideological state apparatus par excellence.

The Likely Lads was good though

 

[Brainaddict]

The BBC exists to manufacture, and impose, a legitimate British culture. One that has tended to be white, conservative and middle-class. It inculcates the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment.

It is, and apologies for the use of Althusser here, an ideological state apparatus par excellence.

I agree with this, but I suppose the argument others here are making is that the alternative is corporate-controlled culture driven entirely by profit. It's the devil or the deep blue sea.

Of course with the rise of social media people do actually produce more of their own culture outside these hierarchies than has been the norm for quite a while now. The platforms may be corp-controlled but the content is much more variable as a result of the varied people making it (with both good and bad content coming as a part of that, including politically speaking). Probably the best hope is neither BBC nor Netflix, but we have to admit there's still only a small percentage of the population (mostly younger) involved in cultural creation online.

 

[chilango]

The Likely Lads was good though

Before my time.

The Young Ones was good though.

Am I doing this right?

 

[Pickman's model]

The BBC exists to manufacture, and impose, a legitimate British culture. One that has tended to be white, conservative and middle-class. It inculcates the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment.

It is, and apologies for the use of Althusser here, an ideological state apparatus par excellence.

we know what it exists for. but the extent to which it in fact achieves those objectives seems to me to be rather different. does it inculcate the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment? it may aspire to. it may attempt to. it may even have some success in those fields. but in the changing way people access news and entertainment, with sky, netflix, amazon and so on in competition with the terrestrial channels (not to mention social media and the range of non-bbc radio stations) i think it's a big ask to say it manages to do all those things. i think your post requires some qualification.