Oswaldtwistle
Banned
<edit..sorry didn;t see the other three pages of the thread>
Sorry, I'm anyhow this morning. Will re-read this thread when I've got time.
Sorry, I'm anyhow this morning. Will re-read this thread when I've got time.
Barclays/TFL cycle hire scheme in London
- Thread starter se5
- Start date
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Would have been a bit more useful if they supplied a larger map to actually see the exact locations in detail.
I wonder what these bikes will look like. I hope their nothing like the godawful yellow and green jobbies that seem to be in place in Hammersmith and Fulham. I wouldn't be seen dead riding one of those.
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
mattie
missing in inaction
I used the Paris bikes for a week or so back in 2007, when there were still bugs to be ironed out but the concept had obviously been successful.
The main problem was the return of bikes - many, many peple all make the same types of journey at the same time, so that if I wanted to ride down to the Louvre from the Science park in the morning I'd struggle to find a bike at the start and then struggle to find a free bay at the end. The situation reverses in the late afternoon.
There were vans travelling round servicing the bikes and 'seeding' the racks, but I would argue you need a far greater number of bays than bikes to make sure you don't have to cylce further away than you started in order to drop the bike. Is there space in London, near tube stops or attractions, to locate these? This happened a couple of times in Paris, once by the Eiffel Tower and once near a restaurant we were meeting in (forget where).
Re. the inability to lock the bikes to anything else, the point is that there should be enough bikes to dock one, do your shopping, walk the few hundred yards to the bays and take another. As you only have 1/2hour of hire time (the charges are really there to discourage longer hires) in my opinion it's really intended to support 1-way hire. Encouraging round trips would mitigate the need for more bays, but I think commuting was where the problem lay.
Of course, this is all Paris' interpretation/implementation, I suspect London may need to do things differently. I worry about how the cycle paths would work, Paris kerbed off set cycle lanes on the major roads, would that work in London, or would we end up with touritsts riding on pavements?
Also, the Paris scheme is essentially funded by advertising rights on the bays, so expcet loads more hoardings about the place.
A member of the London Cycling Campaign in Lambeth has plotted the proposed Lambeth locations on a google map - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ms...1.499179,-0.124111&spn=0.044188,0.132179&z=14 which offers more detail
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Useful. If I'm ever in Lambeth I guess.
Looking further the spreadsheet the Guardian article links to has a listing of the sites - see http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rz6fDPld_pCqaSFw1cMM9DQ Click on the borough name at the bottom of the page (probably some nerd is creating an appropriate google map at this very moment). As I undertsand it these are only proposals and subject to getting planning consent etc so when its actually rolled out the locations might be slightly different.
*bump* because I was in Paris this weekend, used the Velib scheme, loved it and am now very excited about it arriving in London 
I think it could totally change the way you engage with the city. As tourists we hopped about all over the place in an unplanned way because it was so easy to zip about backwards and forwards, and I can see how that could translate back to my home environment too - journeys that would be too far to walk and either impractical or hassle-y to make by tube will suddenly become easy.
I can see how there would be more demand for that in Paris, with the different style of shopping - I saw quite a few people leaving the bikes outside boulangaries and the like, because they're popping in to make a transaction that's going to take 5 mins tops. It suits the way they shop.
The devil is definitely in the detail with this though. We didn't find any problems in Paris with the distribution of bikes - we never came across a dock which didn't have bikes, or that didn't have a few spaces - although some were close to empty and others close to full, so you could see how it could easily happen. If you can't be fairly confident of getting a bike when you need one and dropping it off where you want to, then the system falls to pieces.
I think it could totally change the way you engage with the city. As tourists we hopped about all over the place in an unplanned way because it was so easy to zip about backwards and forwards, and I can see how that could translate back to my home environment too - journeys that would be too far to walk and either impractical or hassle-y to make by tube will suddenly become easy.
I can see how there would be more demand for that in Paris, with the different style of shopping - I saw quite a few people leaving the bikes outside boulangaries and the like, because they're popping in to make a transaction that's going to take 5 mins tops. It suits the way they shop.
The devil is definitely in the detail with this though. We didn't find any problems in Paris with the distribution of bikes - we never came across a dock which didn't have bikes, or that didn't have a few spaces - although some were close to empty and others close to full, so you could see how it could easily happen. If you can't be fairly confident of getting a bike when you need one and dropping it off where you want to, then the system falls to pieces.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I think London is totally ready for this. Most excellent.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yeah, I hope they don't make the mistake here of installing it half-heartedly, then watching it fail because it has been done half-heartedly, and then saying, oh well, what a shame that didn't work.
I read the feasibility study that TfL did, and they did acknowledge that you couldn't do a pilot exercise or anything because the scale of the scheme would be critical to its success - ie you've got to do it wholeheartedly, or it will fail.
They've been able to learn from a couple of other big cities, so they shouldn't make any rookie errors. My only worry is some unexpected 'London Factor' confounds it.
citydreams
on the road again
..and he goes by the name of Boris Johnson.
There's been so much pressure on TfL to deliver this for May next year that safety concerns have been decidedly overlooked. Thankfully it looks like the go live date has to be rolled back until suppliers can deliver the scheme.. if ever..
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Any word on pricing yet?
CD, you are saying this won't be ready for next May?
CD, you are saying this won't be ready for next May?
citydreams
on the road again
Any word on pricing yet?
CD, you are saying this won't be ready for next May?
Pricing is still dependent upon awarding the winning bid to supply the scheme.. There has been some modelling work done, but it's all finger in the air type stuff.
The only real news comes from Mayor's Question Time
BoJo in response to Question No: 925 / 2009 said:
I think the May date is way too optimistic.. the rumour is that no-one can deliver the bikes in time.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Obviously don't answer this question if you are not allowed to, but is it likely to be in the same ball park as a one day travel card?
BTW I know your politics differs from the Mayor's but I don't think it is *neccesarily* a bad thing that Mayor Johnson is putting you under pressure to deliver for a specific date. Ultimately it is your job (TfL's I mean) to deliver services, and the Mayor's job to hold you to account in doing so.
citydreams
on the road again
We didn't get to see the original pricing model.. Internal politics of TfL has gone crazy over bike policy (try finding out what the cycle working group has achieved in 6 months of arse scratching!!)
We hypothesised on the basis of 6000 bikes used 6 or 7 times a day with a budget of around £140 million written off over a five year period.. meaning each trip would 'cost' £1.85.
Then, suddenly, the assumed number of trips per day increased. Fancy that..!
Unfortunately it seems that the oyster card cannot be used with the cycle hire scheme on roll out due to technological incompatability.. And pricewise, nothing is competely certain. We're still a long long way from being able to speculate on who/when/where &c the cycles will be used.
Aye, but we should also have a duty of care to the public. That seems to be forgotten in the race to deliver the Mayor's re-election campaign, sorry, cycle improvments.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Revenue projection: 6.5 x £1.85 x 7 = £84.17 per bike per week.
Oh I see, the scheme breaks even at 6.5 journey's per day and £1.85 per journey.
The scheme breaking down, per bike, to £2,330 over the four years - at that £1.85 per journey.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Massive fail if you can't use Oyster
Agree totally.
christonabike
Elm Park Bencher
I know this may be a niave question, but why aren't problems like these ironed out first?
If people on a bullitin board can ask about these things, how come no-one else in a position to do something about it didn't say so? Something along the lines of: "Well, people need to be able to use their Oyster Cards with this scheme, it's not rocket science, lets do it......"
Ta
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
I'll reiterate - massive intense mega-fail. Velib can use Navigo, so this should use Oyster. Point 1 on the agenda guys!
citydreams
on the road again
Not our fault!!
Boris wants cycle hire at whatever cost. Doesn't matter that he stood for "value for money". He's going to spunk as much money as possible on shiny new bikes.
p.s.. This is the same Boris who 'lost' several bikes left unlocked outside Westminster Palace because he expected the security guards to look after them. Parp! Parp!
Boris wants cycle hire at whatever cost. Doesn't matter that he stood for "value for money". He's going to spunk as much money as possible on shiny new bikes.
p.s.. This is the same Boris who 'lost' several bikes left unlocked outside Westminster Palace because he expected the security guards to look after them. Parp! Parp!
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
How is Paris costed - do we know if it breaks even?
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
It's a secret. Velib is financed by an advertising company (they get free access to half the hoardings associated with the scheme)
http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html
I have no idea how the London scheme will be funded.
http://newmobilityagenda.blogspot.com/2009/02/reports-of-velibs-demise-greatly.html
I have no idea how the London scheme will be funded.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
I'm sorry, Citydreams, this just doesn't add up. Now I realise you post on these boards voluntarily, on a personal basis, and not as some sort of spokesman for TfL. But if there really is loads of money being 'spunked' on this, then how come you can't make it Oyster compatitable. It isn't rocket science, as another poster said.
I really don't get the relevance of this at all.
citydreams
on the road again
That's the thing. Procurement is already in place for the preplanned Oyster upgrade. Contracts already stipulate when they need to deliver by. More money will be spent on Oyster integration, but only once money has already been spent on some other type of payment channel to ensure that cycle hire can happen by May 2010.
If Boris held off on the cycle hire scheme for another year then it could all be done at once.
I think it's worth writing to your London Assembly Member more than TfL. It's not their decision.
Another bugbear is that even once Oyster is intergrated into the cycle hire scheme, that doesn't mean that you will be able to use your travelcard to take a bike. There are no plans in place for that. That would require a Mayor with cajones to neogtiate with the Train Operation Compaines for a resettlement over travelcard revenue. I can't see it happening. The TOCs have only just finished twisting our arm over the introduction of the Oyster barriers.
citydreams
on the road again
Basically, the financing of the cycle hire scheme is left to someone who can't even be bothered to lock his own bike up, no mater how many times it gets nicked from the same place.
