Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[chainsawjob]

Thanks iona, I hadn't thought of that, I could ask my therapist to write, good idea. She saw what a state I was in when I made the phone call the other day.

Spoiler: reply to spoilered bit

I absolutely get what you've written. The process of writing down what I struggle with day to day was soul-destroying to say the least. Having to detail all the failure to function like most people do. And most of it being invisible to anyone looking in from the outside. I can put on a pretty convincing show of functioning vaguely normally. What people don't see, like with you, is the days I don't wash, dress, eat properly, don't get household stuff done, get out of bed, manage to speak to anyone or even make eye contact, the stuff I dip out of cos I can't face it, the time I spend hiding. And it's fucking scary and depressing to lay all this out on a form, it does mental/emotional damage. To lay all this out to be picked over by unsympathetic, uncaring strangers whose priority seems to be to prove I'm lying. And then the feeling like a fraud, cos sometimes I do function to a sufficient degree. I hit a very ill patch while I was doing this.

I'm sorry you're facing a possible move. I hope your support worker will properly take into account your needs, and will hear some of what you've written here about how you would struggle with that.

Good luck with the rest of the form. I had online support from a bunch of friends when I was filling mine in (elsewhere), and I really did give them a blow by blow account of what question I was on/ how much I'd completed, and the days I was ready to give up and couldn't face doing it any more. It really helped keep me going til I got to the end of it, took me a couple of weeks (plus the two weeks it took me before I could face getting started). Helped to have a rant about it all, to people who understand and have been through it themselves. Plus my therapist gave me support, I'd convinced myself I didn't 'deserve' it until she gave her view on it. Without the support and validation I don't think I'd have stuck with it.

 

[chainsawjob]

I've rung ATOS to say I won't be attending, and put it in writing as a back up. They said they thought the DWP'd likely accept my reason as valid, although they can't promise obv. Some hope, fingerscrossed.

 

[Celyn]

Oh, all fingers and toes crossed. If ATOS thinks DWP will be OK, I'd think it will be, ATOS not being known for excessive optimism.

What a damn hassle, though. But for now you get to breathe for a few days /weeks.

 

[WouldBe]

It says on Atos's website they'll only rearrange once, so I wasn't hopeful.

When I had my DLA to PIP assessment with ATOS, they cancelled the first appointment. I had to cancel the second appointment and I managed to turn up for the third. I'm sure it said somewhere in one of the letters that you were allowed to reschedule twice and if you didn't attend the third appointment then you may be sanctioned.

Not sure if I'd be able to find the info again as I've got a memory like a sieve and have difficulty concentrating but I'll have a look for you.

 

[WouldBe]

my meltdowns tend to be quiet and invisible so it's not immediately obvious that I could be entitled to claim) and it's a proper headfuck.

It's not nice but make them visible. Have a meltdown at the assessment and throw a tantrum. Don't try to hide it just let it all out and try to record it even if you do it secretly.

Good luck.

 

[chainsawjob]

Thanks WouldBe, don't worry too much looking for it. The ATOS faq says you can change it once, and that's what they told me on the phone. Maybe it's got more stringent, or maybe it's down to the reason you cancel.

Thanks fishfinger and Celyn

 

[equationgirl]

I am the master of understatement, this has screwed me right up, I'm in a bit of a state (still understatement). Very upset that my friend who I arranged to come with me, had forgotten about an appointment she has herself when I asked her which dates she couldn't make, honest mistake, but hard nonetheless when I'd rearranged it to ensure she could come with me.

During my therapy appointment yesterday my therapist suggested I ring them there and then and explain the person I need to accompany me can't come and ask for a reschedule. I did. It says on Atos's website they'll only rearrange once, so I wasn't hopeful. And the answer was no. (My therapist was surprised at their inflexibility, I wasn't). They said they could note the reason I couldn't come, but would have to then send my file back to the DWP for them to make a decision on whether my reason for not being able to attend was permitted. And then presumably I would be either offered a further appointment or my benefit stopped due to 'failure to attend'. I thought the latter was more likely so decided to keep the appointment even if it meant going by myself.

Today I've finally faced getting my copy of the form out to look at, and I've categorically stated I need someone to accompany me. So fuck it, I ain't going alone. If I turn up by myself it's gonna be instant fail. I'm gonna ring them today and tell them it's not possible for me to attend because I can't arrange support to come with me. It's a big risk because it might mean they instantly stop my DLA which I can no way afford atm. But then I can presumably appeal?

Shit I've just googled this, it doesn't look like you can appeal against a decision that your reason for failing to attend was not good enough. So it would be start from scratch with a new application.

(from here FAILURE TO ATTEND PIP ASSESSMENT )

The person above had also rearranged once previously because they'd been booked an appointment nowhere near where they lived, same as me. They do this on fucking purpose. To test whether you can get there.

Shit.

I asked my friend if she'd be prepared to rearrange her dentist appointment to come with me, but she'd just received her ESA medical date through and can't face any more stress atm. Fair enough. I've had an offer from someone else to accompany me, but she can't make Friday either due to a hospital appointment.

This is an inhumane system Wholly designed to make you give up (which I nearly have done at several points during this process).

Think I'll still ring and cancel it, it's a gamble but there's a slim chance they might give me another appointment. Think I'll write a back up letter quoting what I said on my form about needing support to attend and also arguing for a paper-based assessment rather than face to face (well I had to ask ).

Wish me luck.

Where in the UK is your appointment? If you're near me in Glasgow I can come with you if it's the afternoon.

This is such a shitty fucking process, it is designed to hurt people not help them . the cockwombling fucktards.

Eta: I see you have decided not to go. Hope you feel a bit better now.

 

[iona]

Thanks iona, I hadn't thought of that, I could ask my therapist to write, good idea. She saw what a state I was in when I made the phone call the other day.

Spoiler: reply to spoilered bit

I absolutely get what you've written. The process of writing down what I struggle with day to day was soul-destroying to say the least. Having to detail all the failure to function like most people do. And most of it being invisible to anyone looking in from the outside. I can put on a pretty convincing show of functioning vaguely normally. What people don't see, like with you, is the days I don't wash, dress, eat properly, don't get household stuff done, get out of bed, manage to speak to anyone or even make eye contact, the stuff I dip out of cos I can't face it, the time I spend hiding. And it's fucking scary and depressing to lay all this out on a form, it does mental/emotional damage. To lay all this out to be picked over by unsympathetic, uncaring strangers whose priority seems to be to prove I'm lying. And then the feeling like a fraud, cos sometimes I do function to a sufficient degree. I hit a very ill patch while I was doing this.

I'm sorry you're facing a possible move. I hope your support worker will properly take into account your needs, and will hear some of what you've written here about how you would struggle with that.

Good luck with the rest of the form. I had online support from a bunch of friends when I was filling mine in (elsewhere), and I really did give them a blow by blow account of what question I was on/ how much I'd completed, and the days I was ready to give up and couldn't face doing it any more. It really helped keep me going til I got to the end of it, took me a couple of weeks (plus the two weeks it took me before I could face getting started). Helped to have a rant about it all, to people who understand and have been through it themselves. Plus my therapist gave me support, I'd convinced myself I didn't 'deserve' it until she gave her view on it. Without the support and validation I don't think I'd have stuck with it.

Therapist letter sounds good. If there are any services who'd be familiar with the benefits system that you could contact either nearby or online etc then it might be a good idea to get in touch with them too, even just so they're in the background if you need them to help with stuff later on. No stress if that sounds like too much though, it's not essential

And yeah, the other stuff you wrote. That exactly. The whole "deserving/undeserving" "scroungers" bollocks is so insidious, even if you utterly reject that crap yourself it still somehow sneaks into your head and sits on your shoulder nagging at you.

One of the things I'm finding makes this even harder is the effect PIP will have on other entitlements. At 25, LHA means I'll only be entitled to the "shared" rate of housing benefit for the next 10 years. I'm exempt from that coz I've been in a homeless hostel, but no one can tell me how long that applies for and I'm terrified I'll get dumped somewhere then kicked out when my hb drops however many months or years later and have to go through the whole streets > hostel > move on cycle again. The daily living rate of PIP would mean I'm exempt the whole time I'm claiming it, and I wouldn't necessarily lose it if I managed to start working a bit.
Same with other stuff - I just found out I'd be entitled to a bus pass if I score 8 points on "verbal communication" (or "moving around" but my mobility isn't an issue). That means I "need communication support to be able to express or understand basic verbal information" "safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as I need and in a reasonable time". I consider myself fairly articulate, but when I actually go through that descriptor word by word and look at the examples and guidance online I could qualify. I often avoid any type of verbal communication completely. I don't hear things right, or at all, and other people have similar issues with the way I speak. I forget things. I need things explained or repeated, although I often just guess or give up entirely. I'd have these issues much more often if I didn't just avoid the situation in the first place by avoiding people. But that descriptor could apply to me. So great, I'll get a bus pass and start going out and doing loads of things that help me get a bit better at verbal communication. Then what? As soon as I get at all better, they'll take it off me. I either have to stay this fucked forever, or magic myself into holding down a job that'll pay for all the help I've come to rely on.

It's not nice but make them visible. Have a meltdown at the assessment and throw a tantrum. Don't try to hide it just let it all out and try to record it even if you do it secretly.

Good luck.

Oh I will, at the assessment. Not intentionally but I find them incredibly stressful and I don't have enough self control not to.

Not that it made any difference at my last ESA one - according to the report I "looked well" "appeared well kempt" "did not appear to be trembling" "did not make any rocking movements" "was able to sit still during the interview" "coped well at interview" and various aspects of my speech and concentration were "normal" No mention of the shaking, the rocking and hand-flapping (autistic "stimming"), the fidgeting, the trouble I had answering anything, the fact I was self-harming throughout the entire assessment to the point that my hands were covered in blood and the nurse shouted at me multiple times to "stop it!" I'm hoping to have someone with me this time, and I'm living inside now, so I will at least be in a better position to appeal if they come out with a similar load of lies this time. And I'll definitely try and record it, even if secretly, as you say

 

[bmd]

One thing I think would be very helpful is to have all the answers that you've sent them, with you at the interview. The person interviewing me was very skilled in Motivational Interviewing and kept asking me the same question and then repeating back to me parts of my answers in a polished up kinda way. If I did it again I would take my answers and just repeat them to the interviewer every time they asked me the same question.

They started off the interview asking me how I had got there. I asked him if the interview had started and he said no, just making conversation.

PIP takes so much energy. So so much. That's why you need support. Not so much for your application but because it's a lot harder on your own. I couldn't be arsed with it in the end. I know I'm eligible, just cannot be doing with even being in that building, never mind speaking to an ATOS person.

 

[iona]

bmd I was planning on taking both a list of the points descriptors and my answers (which copied from those) so I can just keep repeating their own words back at them

Sorry to hear about your experiences with the cunts. Is there no way you could access enough support to get you through an assessment etc?

 

[iona]

One more question down (well, two but one of them was just three ticks and a "N/A")

Just three more to go, but one is the most relevant and one is the question that'll decide all of my mobility component points (anyone would think they leave this stuff 'til last to fuck us up ) Gonna try and do them all tonight if I can, but at least get two done and then I can always do the last with my support worker when I go through it all with him in the afternoon.

 

[Celyn]

Well, "like" for supportive thoughts for you doing all this rather than "like", but you'll know what I mean. Generally I mean I hope it is not too bad and shit.

With everything and with your support worker, I do hope for a good result for you.

 

[iona]

Yeah, I feel like I need to post to clarify the intention behind my "likes" sometimes but I don't think people ever assume they were for the shit bit of whatever was posted

Ta Celyn

 

[Celyn]

Yeah, I feel like I need to post to clarify the intention behind my "likes" sometimes but I don't think people ever assume they were for the shit bit of whatever was posted

Ta Celyn

Ta also, I've been going through the whole ESA thing, and a thing that someone else posted utterly describes it for me, you know - that bloody obviously, if can get to the whatsit office, then that is a "good day". And if can get to the damn office, be assessed only for that time in that day. And guess what - they never see the days when not able for anything. Oh I will shut up now and now rant and whine.

 

[equationgirl]

Ta also, I've been going through the whole ESA thing, and a thing that someone else posted utterly describes it for me, you know - that bloody obviously, if can get to the whatsit office, then that is a "good day". And if can get to the damn office, be assessed only for that time in that day. And guess what - they never see the days when not able for anything. Oh I will shut up now and now rant and whine.

I Don't think it's whining at all - people have repeatedly posted that the stress of these things knocks them out for days or weeks after assessment. There's no question asking 'how long were you debilitated for after the assessment?' - perhaps there should be...

 

[chainsawjob]

Absolutely Celyn, if it was one of the worst days I wouldn't be able to get there, or if I did, be able to get across what I needed to. And it's the after-effects (and the preceding effects) of what it takes to get there. None of this is seen. Edit: just seen equationgirl's post, I totally agree, it's not whining, totally valid.

bmd the like was for the rest of your post not the bit about not being able to deal with PIP. You're right it takes so much energy. It has totally dominated my time and preoccupied my mind while it has been ongoing, especially these last few days.

My kids are at home on half term, and I haven't been able to really 'be' (mentally/emotionally) with them since Tuesday because all my mental energy is spent on dealing with PIP, and the effect it's had on my health making me more withdrawn and isolating. Crap for them, but at least my husband is out of work and at home (Guilt, guilt, shame, comes with the territory). Such relief when I decided I wasn't going to go to the assessment today. And I'm back in the room... to a point.

 

[chainsawjob]

Where in the UK is your appointment? If you're near me in Glasgow I can come with you if it's the afternoon.

This is such a shitty fucking process, it is designed to hurt people not help them . the cockwombling fucktards.

Eta: I see you have decided not to go. Hope you feel a bit better now.

Thanks so much for this offer equationgirl, that's so kind of you. I'm down South, so no where near Glasgow unfortunately.

I've had another offer from a friend to come with me if I get another appointment, so hopefully one way or another I'll have someone.

iona glad you’re getting through the questions, yes I'm sure they do all they can to fuck us up, and make it as difficult as possible to score points, in the way they phrase and order the questions. Good that you've got your support worker to go through it all with you.

I don't know what you have to do to not appear 'normal' at a medical, the bar must be set pretty damn high

Yes, and the signs of distress and agitation they conveniently fail to notice or record

I've tried a local disability advice service in the past, but the person I saw wasn't very clued up. I've had online advice from the Benefits and Work forum, they've been really helpful over my recent ESA balls up, so I can go back to them if I need more advice.

And yeah, the other stuff you wrote. That exactly. The whole "deserving/undeserving" "scroungers" bollocks is so insidious, even if you utterly reject that crap yourself it still somehow sneaks into your head and sits on your shoulder nagging at you.

Yes it's impossible, however hard you try, not to be influenced by this stuff. And people are more isolated and dispersed these days, there’s not the services there used to be where you knew a lot of people with similar problems, I think this makes me feel less valid.

One of the things I'm finding makes this even harder is the effect PIP will have on other entitlements.

Absolutely.

And yes the whole thing of trying to work out if the descriptors apply, and the threat that if your symptoms improve in any way it'll all just be taken away as soon as you're getting on your feet. It's harsh. In the past things used to be a lot less harsh, more flexible, people were given a chance, not undermined for getting better.

 

[equationgirl]

It absolutely should not be this hard. Having just done my postal vote for the election the first thing I checked was candidates' records on benefits issues, and chose accordingly.

Any one of us could have to go through this process. People should be able to concentrate on getting better, not navigating a system set up to break them.

Fuck, I hope the tories lose.

 

[iona]

That cunt of a form is fucking done Still waiting for a letter from my support worker, and need to add a photocopy of my deed poll because half my evidence is under a different name but other than that it's all checked, photocopied AND scanned onto computer, and ready to post when I get my ESA next week so I can pay for recorded. Thank fucking fuck, now I can attempt to get back to my "normal" until the next round of interrogation.

Thank you to everyone who's listened to my ranting, and good luck to everyone waiting on ESA, PIP etc bollocks.

 

[bmd]

bmd I was planning on taking both a list of the points descriptors and my answers (which copied from those) so I can just keep repeating their own words back at them

Sorry to hear about your experiences with the cunts. Is there no way you could access enough support to get you through an assessment etc?

I probably could now tbh. I just don't know if I could stop myself from vaulting across the desk and stabbing the interviewer repeatedly in the eyeballs with my specially sharpened pencil. It is my favourite ATOS fantasy.

 

[bmd]

I've decided I'm going back on Olanzapine. I should probably let the local shop know so that they can stock up, take on a couple more staff etc. Olanzapine is actually an anagram of EAT MORE FOOD ALWAYS.

I'm going back on it because I am tired of self-medicating. It works but it's isolating and shit in other ways so it's time to get back on the horse. Well, off the Horse and back on the weird meds.

 

[iona]

I probably could now tbh. I just don't know if I could stop myself from vaulting across the desk and stabbing the interviewer repeatedly in the eyeballs with my specially sharpened pencil. It is my favourite ATOS fantasy.

Mine is usually a biro to the carotid

(Liked your other post for the positivity of making decisions, not the tired and rubbish bits, if that makes sense)

 

[bmd]

Mine is usually a biro to the carotid

(Liked your other post for the positivity of making decisions, not the tired and rubbish bits, if that makes sense)

Ah, the good ol' Biro. A design classic I believe.

I'm not going there with the 'likes' thing. I started to and then thought "I'm going to send myself crazy!" More crazy. Crazier. See?

 

[gindygoo]

So, firstly I should say hi... Hi

I didn't join up here for this thread, and in fact didn't know you had a dedicated thread/room for this stuff. Pretty chuffed about it though as I'm gonna need a shit load of help in the not too distant.

I've got an illness called systemic sclerosis with (now secondary, used to be primary) Raynauds and Gerds. It's all under the CREST umbrella of illnesses (CREST syndrome - Wikipedia) and as it's an auto immune disorder it quite literally knocks me for six for about 60% of my life.

Now I get ESA highest rate and highest rate of DLA (care component) and full award of LHA as I'm over the age threshold for that.

I know that PIP and universal credit assessments are gonna hit me soon. Even though after the gov said no more 'forever awards' would be given, and reassessed everyone using ATOS (just before PIP was intro'd), I was actually awarded the continuing award and have had no further assessments since. I do consider myself extremely fortunate in that respect.

Anyway yes, that's my life on shitty benefits that you're repeatedly told you don't deserve (even though I've paid a shitload of taxes as I've worked solid since being able to, from the age of 14 in fact). After becoming too ill to work, I did fight to get what I was entitled to. But now my illness has taken a throttling hold on me, I'm not sure I've got that fight still in me.

 

[WouldBe]

I probably could now tbh. I just don't know if I could stop myself from vaulting across the desk and stabbing the interviewer repeatedly in the eyeballs with my specially sharpened pencil. It is my favourite ATOS fantasy.

If you did you'd still get awarded 0 points for being a danger to others.

 

[equationgirl]

Welcome to the thread gindygoo hope you stick around on Urban.

 

[chainsawjob]

Hiya gindygoo

 

[Orang Utan]

fingers crossed for thursday:

 

[gindygoo]

Welcome to the thread gindygoo hope you stick around on Urban.

equationgirl thank you, I think I might just do that.

 

[bmd]

Hiya gindygoo

Hope you find what you need here.