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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

My wife, who is my "carer", had a phone call from the DWP about our claim for DLA this morning. The caller informed her that because the DLA form didn't have a "return by" date on it they would only pay from the date they received the form which was in April.

The form was given to me by the Job Centre before I started chemo last September. I've been so ill that we didn't return the form until April though we made it clear that I was ill even before I started chemo.

The lack of a "return by" date was not down to us, that was a mistake made by the issuing Job Centre. Do you think we would have grounds for appeal in asking for our claim to be backdated till the beginning of chemotherapy treatment?


Get your appeal in Libertad. As my point above, after seeking advice from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, "reasonable adjustment" could be argued in your case. Emphasise this point and I suggest you involve your MP too.
 
It will probably go against you. Althought the assessor may not know the contents of the phone calls they may have a record that you phoned x times over y days and this will be assumed that you can use the phone.

If you can't get anyone to make the phone calls for you then get a cheap dictaphone and a telephone adaptor and record the calls yourself. If the Atossers then use your calls against you, you then have the proof to use against them when you do them for fraud by misrepresentation. :)

Hi I can't afford a dictaphone for one time use.
I can get someone to phone once but I doybt tthey will phone srveral times as someone suggested may be required.
Normally I would think its paranoia but with atos you can't be paranoid enough it seems.
 
Hi I can't afford a dictaphone for one time use.
I can get someone to phone once but I doybt tthey will phone srveral times as someone suggested may be required.
Normally I would think its paranoia but with atos you can't be paranoid enough it seems.
You can get a dictaphone for £30 from Argos. :)

If you have long term health problems you will need it again in 2 years time when you get reassessed and then in another 2 years etc. :(
 
You can get a dictaphone for £30 from Argos. :)

If you have long term health problems you will need it again in 2 years time when you get reassessed and then in another 2 years etc. :(
Hi Wouldbe

I dont think I will be assessed in two yrs time cos I will possibly only be on ESA for the twelve months of contributions based, as I will get paid zero income related ESA as its means tested and my £499 (not enough to live on) pension may be my sole income.
 
Hi Wouldbe

I dont think I will be assessed in two yrs time cos I will possibly only be on ESA for the twelve months of contributions based, as I will get paid zero income related ESA as its means tested and my £499 (not enough to live on) pension may be my sole income.

You don't know that panpete, you can't assume that you won't get put into the support group.
 
Hi Wouldbe

I dont think I will be assessed in two yrs time cos I will possibly only be on ESA for the twelve months of contributions based, as I will get paid zero income related ESA as its means tested and my £499 (not enough to live on) pension may be my sole income.

What I'm going to say here, panpete, is said supportively, not critically.

In just the last two posts you've made, you're demonstrating something the cognitive behaviouralists like to call "errors of thinking". I don't much like that term, because it somehow implies that certain types of thinking are "wrong" by some external standard. But they have a point, because the kind of thing that term refers to are often ways of thinking that sabotage any possibility of progress.

The first is in your apparent determination to be rendered powerless by circumstances, with regard to the dictaphone idea. It is easy, perhaps if we are feeling pessimistic or persecuted, to see there as being no way through, and that can sometimes (often!) tend to lead us to automatically assume there is no solution, and to find ways in which that is the case. With the dictaphone, as has been pointed out, these devices aren't prohibitively expensive, which means more than one thing: first, it is possible that you might be able to afford one (you could look on it as a useful investment just in case you find yourself needing to record further interactions with agencies), but even if that isn't possible, it means that someone else may have one that they will be prepared to lend or give you. So, rather than seeing it as a complete obstacle, consider the possibilities.

Secondly, your predictions regarding the likely outcome of your assessment. Along with "mind reading", "predicting the future" is a common "error of thinking", and again tends to arise when people are very discouraged or pessimistic, often with good reason, about their prospects. But there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and if you go into situations automatically assuming that the worst outcome will result, you are going to find that negative things happen more often.

It's interesting that, in a way, you are using the latter prediction to justify your choice not to try and find a way of recording your assessment - this is circular reasoning, as there is enough evidence on here to show that recording assessments can provide useful information with which to challenge them. Which would mean that your prediction of being put onto ESA, while possibly right at the point of the DWP decision, is wrong in that you will be in a better position to appeal and challenge the outcome.

Seriously - there are a lot of things you cannot control, but it seems to me that you are lumping in with them things you could control if you chose to. It doesn't guarantee a positive outcome, but the current approach is most definitely guaranteeing a negative one.

Think about it.
 
Received DLA decision today. Awarded lower rate. They obviously didn't read the evidence that we'd provided.
Going to appeal. Will they suspend the lower rate award while we appeal?

Really don't need this stress right now, waiting for a CT scan to see if my gall bladder and pancreas are fucked. When I read the letter my whole right hand side went into spasm, fucking agony. That'll be stress then. :)
 
Received DLA decision today. Awarded lower rate. They obviously didn't read the evidence that we'd provided.
Going to appeal. Will they suspend the lower rate award while we appeal?

Really don't need this stress right now, waiting for a CT scan to see if my gall bladder and pancreas are fucked. When I read the letter my whole right hand side went into spasm, fucking agony. That'll be stress then. :)

I can't see the lower rate getting suspended while you appeal - Appeal's one thing, your award for lower rate is something else.

As ever though, don't take my word as gospel.

And don't run out of build up again ;)
 
Hey Libertad join the club, the MRI scan I had a couple of weeks ago has confirmed my brain is fucked-up, with a 94 day wait before I'm able to see a neurosurgeon. The good news is it is "considered benign".
 
Hey Libertad join the club, the MRI scan I had a couple of weeks ago has confirmed my brain is fucked-up, with a 94 day wait before I'm able to see a neurosurgeon. The good news is it is "considered benign".

94 days???!!! NINETY-FOUR DAYS???!!!! Dear god, what is your PCT playing at? Any way you can get this brought forwards?
 
With this shower of shite in government hacking away at PCT's as I type I very much doubt that. I've yet to experience my benefits being stopped altogether as yet. As I think I remarked on this thread earlier, the DWP have said they'd email the Benefits Agency with regards to my 24 month stay of execution, but I don't hold out much for the, incompetent, or deliberate by design, bureaucratic balls up that's likely to happen. I'll go to the press then, that's if my battered brain holds out in the meantime.
 
What I'm going to say here, panpete, is said supportively, not critically.

In just the last two posts you've made, you're demonstrating something the cognitive behaviouralists like to call "errors of thinking". I don't much like that term, because it somehow implies that certain types of thinking are "wrong" by some external standard. But they have a point, because the kind of thing that term refers to are often ways of thinking that sabotage any possibility of progress.

The first is in your apparent determination to be rendered powerless by circumstances, with regard to the dictaphone idea. It is easy, perhaps if we are feeling pessimistic or persecuted, to see there as being no way through, and that can sometimes (often!) tend to lead us to automatically assume there is no solution, and to find ways in which that is the case. With the dictaphone, as has been pointed out, these devices aren't prohibitively expensive, which means more than one thing: first, it is possible that you might be able to afford one (you could look on it as a useful investment just in case you find yourself needing to record further interactions with agencies), but even if that isn't possible, it means that someone else may have one that they will be prepared to lend or give you. So, rather than seeing it as a complete obstacle, consider the possibilities.

Secondly, your predictions regarding the likely outcome of your assessment. Along with "mind reading", "predicting the future" is a common "error of thinking", and again tends to arise when people are very discouraged or pessimistic, often with good reason, about their prospects. But there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and if you go into situations automatically assuming that the worst outcome will result, you are going to find that negative things happen more often.

It's interesting that, in a way, you are using the latter prediction to justify your choice not to try and find a way of recording your assessment - this is circular reasoning, as there is enough evidence on here to show that recording assessments can provide useful information with which to challenge them. Which would mean that your prediction of being put onto ESA, while possibly right at the point of the DWP decision, is wrong in that you will be in a better position to appeal and challenge the outcome.

Seriously - there are a lot of things you cannot control, but it seems to me that you are lumping in with them things you could control if you chose to. It doesn't guarantee a positive outcome, but the current approach is most definitely guaranteeing a negative one.

Think about it.
Hi Existentialist,

Will I be allowed to take a dictaphone into the interview?
If so, then I will take one in.

I see what you mean about some people leading us to think there is no solution to problems they present. I also felt like that about my mum and dad.
They have a lot in common with the government. For instance, it only recently occured to me, that my mum and dad used to make my life as difficult as possible and were very negative and they brainwashed me into thinking I was trapped or stuck in various positions.
For instance, when I was 24 back in 1990, I wanted to leave home, and my mum said I would never get a council house, cos all the single mums would keep overtaking me in the queue, so I gave up.
Anyway, I digress from Atos and the govt, (theyre both one and the same greedy immoral beast) to me.
My parents were unreasonable, and atos/govt are too, so, when dealing with unreasonable people, I get paranoid and think up all sorts of irrational situations.
If were dealing with more average people, I would not be so keen to look for malicious intent.

If it wont be a problem for me to take a dictaphone into the interview, I will, so long as it will record clearly and not a load of muffled incoherent noise.
 
Will I be allowed to take a dictaphone into the interview?
If so, then I will take one in.

I recall assessors making a problem of it, but I'm too tired to remember where.

Strategy: take someone with you who can take copious notes. This itself makes the assessor take care.

Also have a concealed dictaphone.

Then if there are issues, you can transcribe the tape the notes. See?
 
I recall assessors making a problem of it, but I'm too tired to remember where.

Strategy: take someone with you who can take copious notes. This itself makes the assessor take care.

Also have a concealed dictaphone.

Then if there are issues, you can transcribe the tape the notes. See?
This.

Test the concept: put the dictaphone in your pocket and try talking to people. Check it back afterwards and see.

Also...
I see what you mean about some people leading us to think there is no solution to problems they present. I also felt like that about my mum and dad.
They have a lot in common with the government. For instance, it only recently occured to me, that my mum and dad used to make my life as difficult as possible and were very negative and they brainwashed me into thinking I was trapped or stuck in various positions.
For instance, when I was 24 back in 1990, I wanted to leave home, and my mum said I would never get a council house, cos all the single mums would keep overtaking me in the queue, so I gave up.
Anyway, I digress from Atos and the govt, (theyre both one and the same greedy immoral beast) to me.
My parents were unreasonable, and atos/govt are too, so, when dealing with unreasonable people, I get paranoid and think up all sorts of irrational situations.
If were dealing with more average people, I would not be so keen to look for malicious intent.
Can you see, reading back what you have said here, how you manage to turn other people's problematic behaviour into your problems?

You're equating the government with your parents (very Freudian), but using both examples as ways ("they brainwashed me"/"If I were dealing with more average people, I would not be...") of explaining how your behaviour is not your own, but dictated by others.

You might want to think about challenging those assumptions.

This is my favourite Dictaphone joke:

"Can I borrow your Dictaphone?"

"No, use your finger like everyone else".

Ithangyew.

PS, I meant it about the assumptions.
 
When dealing with Atos, I feel as if I am dealing with my parents.
Both are/were unreasonable.
What am I meant to assume when dealing with such people where anything goes?
I do not know anyone who I could ask, to take copious notes for me.
If I did know someone, I would ask them.
If I snook a dictaphone into my bag, and Atos ended up writing down something I didn't say, what redress would I have, given that I would be giving myself away by telling them I recorded the interview on the sly?

Thanks
 
How about doing both? Record the session on your Dictaphone and make notes on a pad. Then, after the session, write up fuller notes from your recording.
 
When dealing with Atos, I feel as if I am dealing with my parents.
Both are/were unreasonable.
What am I meant to assume when dealing with such people where anything goes?
I do not know anyone who I could ask, to take copious notes for me.
If I did know someone, I would ask them.
If I snook a dictaphone into my bag, and Atos ended up writing down something I didn't say, what redress would I have, given that I would be giving myself away by telling them I recorded the interview on the sly?

Thanks
Read what Laptop said. Allow me to transcribe with subtitles...

You have someone in with you who is giving every appearance of taking copious notes. This is perfectly legit, though he could be doing Sudoku puzzles so long as he isn't caught.

You have, also, hidden in your pocket, one Dictaphone, covert recording for the use of.

Following the travesty...I mean, assessment, you transcribe the recording of the session as notes (notes being perfectly acceptable to take).

Should there be any issue with the assessment, you produce your notes, denying all existence of the Dictaphone ("no, use your finger"), and trounce them.

Assume nothing when dealing with such people. Definitely don't assume that they are your parents - the people who work for ATOS are usually unfamiliar with the concept of parenthood...and certainly the concept of parenthood within wedlock (see what I did there?).
 
How about doing both? Record the session on your Dictaphone and make notes on a pad. Then, after the session, write up fuller notes from your recording.
Ah yes, the "billy no mates" option, should work just as well :) Although, of course, you might be demonstrating competence by being able to take comprehensive notes - it'd be better if it were someone else, even if they're just a complete stooge.
 
I may be missing something but why would you be surreptitiously recording your ATOS assessment with a dictaphone anyway? A recording of your medical is available free of charge from ATOS (as long as you request it in advance).
 
When dealing with Atos, I feel as if I am dealing with my parents.
Both are/were unreasonable.
What am I meant to assume when dealing with such people where anything goes?
I do not know anyone who I could ask, to take copious notes for me.
If I did know someone, I would ask them.
If I snook a dictaphone into my bag, and Atos ended up writing down something I didn't say, what redress would I have, given that I would be giving myself away by telling them I recorded the interview on the sly?

Thanks

afaik, covert recordings can be used as evidence at tribunals, but you need to do transcriptions.
 
Read what Laptop said. Allow me to transcribe with subtitles...

You have someone in with you who is giving every appearance of taking copious notes. This is perfectly legit, though he could be doing Sudoku puzzles so long as he isn't caught.

You have, also, hidden in your pocket, one Dictaphone, covert recording for the use of.

Following the travesty...I mean, assessment, you transcribe the recording of the session as notes (notes being perfectly acceptable to take).

Should there be any issue with the assessment, you produce your notes, denying all existence of the Dictaphone ("no, use your finger"), and trounce them.

Assume nothing when dealing with such people. Definitely don't assume that they are your parents - the people who work for ATOS are usually unfamiliar with the concept of parenthood...and certainly the concept of parenthood within wedlock (see what I did there?).
Hi

I see what you mean now :) I got confused, sorry.
What do you mean about subtitiles? and also about atos staff having kids out of wedlock?
Sorry this has affected my mind, so I am not quick on the uptake as normal.
 
Hi

I see what you mean now :) I got confused, sorry.
What do you mean about subtitiles? and also about atos staff having kids out of wedlock?
Sorry this has affected my mind, so I am not quick on the uptake as normal.
Don't worry about it. It's really just me not trying quite hard enough not to be a complete cunt.
 
you need to request a recorded home assessment. you will need backup from your gp.gp needs to spell out that you are dangerous to yourself and others if you are placed under unnecessary stress.

I've got no idea what bakunin's gp said to atos, but they chose not to proceed with assessing him at all. if your gp cooperates and writes explaining half of what you've told us, you could well get a similar result.
 
I may be missing something but why would you be surreptitiously recording your ATOS assessment with a dictaphone anyway? A recording of your medical is available free of charge from ATOS (as long as you request it in advance).

If you're lucky enough for the centre you're attending to have a functioning recording device (of which there are a grand total of 11 for 118 centres).
 
I may be missing something but why would you be surreptitiously recording your ATOS assessment with a dictaphone anyway? A recording of your medical is available free of charge from ATOS (as long as you request it in advance).

Has anyone ever heard or seen a credible report of a request for recording being granted?
 
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