Armstrong tests positive?
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I don't actually blame someone who doesn't follow cycling, doesn't follow doping issues in sport and doesn't have a breeze about the legal issues involved for holding views like those expressed by leftistangel on this thread. As long as they are willing to change those views in discussion.
The fact is that so far Armstrong's people have been able to use his wealth, celebrity and pre-existing public image as a hero to shape the public understanding of this process, and they've been able to do it without USADA being able to answer back because of the protections he and the rest of those facing USADA charges enjoy. That period is likely to come to an end, but undoing the Armstrong PR campaign will take some time.
Will presumably have to wait until Bruyneel decides what he wants to do. Until then I assume time Lance can continue his spin.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Lots of people are saying that this is a bad day for cycling. But it might be a great day if it results in taking doping issues out of the hands of the UCI and giving them to WADA and the national doping organisations. USADA and Tygart deserve a lot of credit for how they've handled this. And NADA's had a good week, opening an investigation into Kloden et al.
Another positive is that Bruyneel's days as a DS have to be numbered now. I can't see him having a role in pro cycling next year.
Another positive is that Bruyneel's days as a DS have to be numbered now. I can't see him having a role in pro cycling next year.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
That's my understanding of Tygart's comment to Shane Stokes anyway: That they can reveal the strength of their evidence, but not until all of the alleged conspirators have their cases dealt with.
I don't think that Bruyneel will actually proceed to arbitration in the end. He's too close to Armstrong to go so directly counter to Armstrong's strategy. But he can certainly keep USADA from answering Armstrong back for a while.
It's also possible that Celaya will take it to arbitration. That would be funniest outcome, but like Del Moral and Ferrari, I don't really see why he would bother.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Next year? If he doesn't take it to arbitration he'll be fucked before the end of the Vuelta.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Quite! A couple of weeks ago he said he'd go to arbitration, and I'm assuming he'll keep saying that if only to delay things so he can finish the Vuelta. Perhaps he'll switch to Lance's position when the race ends.
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
If the UCI had a fit and proper person test there would hardly be any DS's eligible. Mind you the premier league found
Thaksin Shinawatra fit and proper enough to own a prem FC. I wonder who you'd have to be to be actually noted as unfit and unproper. Charlie Manson? Joseph Mengele? Harold Shipman? I wonder what Phil and Paul are going to erase Johan from their SIM cards or will they all remain girls together?
Thaksin Shinawatra fit and proper enough to own a prem FC. I wonder who you'd have to be to be actually noted as unfit and unproper. Charlie Manson? Joseph Mengele? Harold Shipman? I wonder what Phil and Paul are going to erase Johan from their SIM cards or will they all remain girls together?
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Lance is an investor in Paul's gold mine. Nothing will change.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Just to make sure people popping in get this - THIS IS REAL
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
http://www.uci.ch
Conspicuous silence from McQuaid and cronies, not even 'there is a statement pending'. This itself is a story in its own right. Verbruggen and McQuaid presided over the dirtiest 20 years in any professional sport and took millions of dollars selling a bent product. On the outside thats fraud. If I were ASO I'd seize this opportunity as the perfect time to form a breakaway league of races...
Conspicuous silence from McQuaid and cronies, not even 'there is a statement pending'. This itself is a story in its own right. Verbruggen and McQuaid presided over the dirtiest 20 years in any professional sport and took millions of dollars selling a bent product. On the outside thats fraud. If I were ASO I'd seize this opportunity as the perfect time to form a breakaway league of races...
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
'This is my body, and I can do whatever I want to it.'...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
shut up veins
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
An old quote from Verbruggen - "Je mange un plat de spaghetti le matin du marathon, mais n'est-ce pas là que commence le dopage ?" Not quite sure of the best translation, but maybe "If I eat a plate of spaghetti before a marathon - isn't that the beginning of doping?"
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
It would have been fucking great if Obree had ridden into the twat instead of missing him by a few inches.
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
Liggett has certainly been on some kind of dope for years.
Am finding watching Vuelta refreshing without his inane comments.
Venom aside, he is part of the establishment with his feet nicely under the table. No other reason how he could have lasted so long.
Sherwen's gold mine partly explains his acceptance.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Liggett said he would quit if Lance was found to have doped. I hope he takes this as his cue. The Vuelta coverage is so much better with whoever they are. Rendell? Some Scottish bloke? And Hammond is much better than Boardman. Maybe next year we'll have clean racing AND bearable commentary!
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Oh please God, let Liggett quit.
The stand ins are better, but I still find Harmon and Kelly to be the best pairing of English language commentators. Harmon is a relatively entertaining professional babbler, while Kelly knows his stuff. But that's an issue of personal taste, people can reasonably prefer different teams as long as they aren't Phil and Paul!
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
Far more than that, $5m was the bonus for the last of his wins, it had been incerasing by $1m a year, all the other were paid out. |So I think we are talking about 1+2+3+4+7 , $17m. the last bonus of $5m was actually $7m in the end with interest and legal charges, It wasnt about doping in the end, and even LA own lawyers didnt use an anti-doping stance. All they contended in the endwas that the contract said if LA wins, he gets paid, not of he wins clean! So to use tha fact that LA won this case as proof he has proved he was clean is a red herring.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That v good on first look. Ta.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
USADA says Lance has to forfeit his winnings - that's quite a bit of money, which he would have shared with his team. I wonder if he'll ask Landis, Hamilton and Andreu to return their take?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
what a cunt.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
I've been reading everything I can get my hands on but there's one thing I don't get - why has Hincapie spilled the beans to USADA? That seems to be the biggest reason why Lance has caved. We know that Hincapie had to give sworn statements to the Federal investigators - he had no choice, he was subpoenaed. But the feds dropped the case, so how come Hincapie has talked to USADA? Does USADA have the right to be copied on Hincapie's statements? I can't see why Hincapie would talk to USADA voluntarily. He wouldn't want to rat on Lance. If USADA accused him of doping he'd just accept a 2 year ban - he's retiring anyway. Even a lifetime ban would be OK as his retirement plan seems to be running his clothing company, not being a DS.
I've seen it suggested that the feds shared info with USADA, but that sounds like it would be legally dodgy. Perhaps you need to look at more personal/psychological reasons - once he's spilled all it may be hard to go back to lying, perhaps he's been riding clean for a while and wants to protect his legacy. Is it even definite that he was one of the witnesses?
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