Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby's time is up.

[stavros]

Is there anything to be said for saying another mass?

 

[vanya]

Suffer the little children to come unto Me...

 

[Dom Traynor]

Not a very helpful comment.

Why? bcuster is a muppet but it feels like an apt time to mock Anglicans.

 

[quiet guy]

Is there anything to be said for saying another mass?

That would be ecumenical matter


Surprised it hadn't already been said

 

[elbows]

They were the so-called Bash Camps founded by a chap named Nash. Their aim was to create a cadre of conservative evangelical leaders recruited from only the most prestigious public schools, who would wage was against liberalism and Anglo-Catholicism. They succeeded in their aim producing lots of evangelical clergy and bishops dominating one wing of the C of E- an Anglican Militant Tendency but obviously more committed and successful.

Here is traditional evangelical view

‘Bash’

‘Bash’ On 27 July Rev. John Stott went to be with the Lord. The man responsible for pointing him to Christ as a public schoolboy was Rev. E. J. H. Nash. This article remembers this unusual, but devoted, servant of Jesus Christ. It was half an hour into the service. A man slipped quietly into...

www.evangelical-times.org

And more realistically

The abusive toxic culture produced by the evangelical doctrine of penal substitution — Unadulterated Love

The Iwerne Trust produced many of the most prominent Evangelical Christian leaders, people associated with Reformed theology in the Church of England over the past 40 years. At the heart of the Iwerne philosophy was a brand of wholehearted, sacrificial, masculine Christianity maintained by a detaile

www.unadulteratedlove.net

The wikipedia page for Nash has a couple of other details about him which really set the scene for creating an environment ripe for abuse.

E. J. H. Nash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Including:

He used military terminology: Nash was known as commandant, his deputy, adjutant and the leaders were officers.

a "lack of interest in social issues" and "a large dose of self-denying otherworldliness."

John Stott reports: "His letters to me often contained a rebuke, for I was a wayward young Christian and needed to be disciplined. In fact, so frequent were his admonitions at one period, that whenever I saw his familiar writing on an envelope, I needed to pray and prepare myself for half an hour before I felt ready to open it."

the union was marked by his methods: a very simple evangelical gospel; meticulous preparation; a wariness of emotions or intellect and assiduous “personal work” before and after conversion."

On hearing one leader expressing himself in a way characteristic of the renewal, he said "will officers please not pray such emotional prayers,"

Some have noted that Nash created an "oddly male, oddly elitist, and oddly simplistic world.

Chapman notes: "He was an unassuming yet eccentric figure who avoided tomato pips, took a bewildering array of medications, and enjoyed juvenile humour."

Controversy is eschewed by "Bash campers"; it is held to be noisy and undignified - and potentially damaging. As a result many issues which ought to be faced are quietly avoided. Any practical decisions that must be made are taken discreetly by the leadership and passed down the line. The loyalty of the rank and file is such that decisions are respected; any who question are liable to find themselves outside the pale... It does not give a place to the process of argument, consultation and independent thought which are essential to any genuine co-operation, inside the church or outside it.

Nash could be "single-minded to the point of ruthlessness" and "courageous in challenging people about their actions or priorities," but that this could become "over-direction"; some even needed to make a complete break in order to be free of his influence.

And a few other details pertaining to the elitist nature of 'his mission':

he "had a vision in a railway carriage that he was to win Britain for Christ."

His prayer was "Lord, we claim the leading public schools for your kingdom."

Nash focused on those individuals that he felt had special leadership qualities, "not from snobbery, but from strategy."[13]According to Bishop David Sheppard, Nash would pray "Lord, we know that thou dost love one talent and two talent men, but we pray that thou wouldst give us a five talent man."

John King said: "Many 'Bash campers' went from school to Cambridge and became pillars of the Cambridge Inter-Collegiate Christian Union, so that it was possible, when the movement was at its zenith for a boy to go from public school to Cambridge, to ordination, to a curacy and to a parish of his own without encountering the kind of life lived outside those particular circles...

 

[Boo Radley75]

Sir Michael Take CBE (@sirmichaeltake.bsky.social)

Let’s get a PROPER cleric to replace Justin Welby & take charge of The CofE: Bishop Russell Brand The Rev Huw Edwards The Rev Cardew Robinson Archbishop Phillip Schofield Prince Andrew The Rev Richard Communard The Rev Paula Vennells Rick Wakeman Father Brown Mrs Brown & her boys Mark Chapman. 🙏

bsky.app

 

[tim]

Kathy Newman interviewing Smyth's son, P J, who was also victim of beatings and controlling behaviour, when he had cancer his father told him that it he was being punished by God for dishonouring his parents.

 

[PR1Berske]

From Private Eye. I've used Google Lens to try and copy and paste the column, forgive me for any errors in the process.

THE EDITOR WRITES...

LATTENDED the Trustees Annual Dinner at the British Museum on Wednesday last week, having once curated an exhibition there a list since. It was and good, but as I stood with: sa gathering few years ago and been on the guest of the "great a drink In my hand I couldn't help noticing that the man standing across the Great Con was the Archbishop of Court from Can Canterbury. me

This was the day after he to resign had been forced in disgrace scandal and cover-up abase in for his role in an appalling of monstrous rch of England the Church he would turn up to a It was jaw- Like many guests there, I could not believe pablic event. dropping. But there with his wife, exchanging not only was he pleasantries with other guests, but he made a bee line for a me and came over 10 pl was said. I told introduce himself to the small group 1 standing with. "Justin Welby," he him that I knew who he was. He then said, looking around: "Isn't this lovely?"

I am afraid at this point I couldn't contain myself and refused to allow him to use the politeness of the British establishment to get away with what I thought was extraordinarily shameless behaviour. I said: "It is lovely that you have resigned." It is not the most brilliant piece of repartee ever, but he did at surprised and asked me if that is what I at least look thought. I said I didn't particularly want to be rude, but yes, that was exactly what I thought. was not being any ruder than a lot of people in the church. He then said that I

I explained that Private Eye had been writing about this scandal and his part in it for years. He then started to protest that our coverage had not been entirely accurate. I said it felt odd for me to address the Archbishop of Canterbury on the subject of humility, but that it was really not appropriate for him of all people at this of all times to comment on anyone else's grip on truth and lies. an He looked at me attentively and said

it was really not appropriate for him of all people at this of all times to comment on anyone else's grip on truth and lies. an He looked at me attentively and said


rapidly: "Do you mean lies before or after 2013" a reference to whether he was lying between 2013 and 2017, or whether he was lying long before that about how much he knew about the behaviour of his disgusting friend John Smyth. I asked whether four years wasn't enough lying for him. At this point our conversation ended.



Welby proesounced himself horrified by read whan he lese shocked

Throughout the rest of the evening, various other guests told him he was "very brave" to come to the party. I disagreed and thought the word "brave" should be reserved for, say, people like Andy Morse, the victim of the abuser who had come forward at great personal cost and denounced the church for its behaviour. One guest told me he had hugged Welby "in a spirit of Christian forgiveness". That seemed to me exactly the problem: that these particular Christians were far too keen to forgive each other for their sins and far too slow to seek justice for the poor victims in their flock.

Welby seemed to me to be unrepentant and unashamed. I am not convinced he has been punished enough - unlike the poor boys his friend so mercilessly flogged in the name of Christianity.

 

[Dom Traynor]

And that's why whatever his faults Ian Hislop is legend.

 

[19force8]

From Private Eye. I've used Google Lens to try and copy and paste the column, forgive me for any errors in the process.

Dom, that's virtually incomprehensible. I suspect Google has a clerical bent.

The photo is totally legible. It's a fine piece by Hislop, though not nearly harsh enough on Welby. Especially after Welby's farewell speech in the Lords.

His crack about the church needing a "head to roll" was despicable. Suggesting he was a scapegoat and not a key actor in the whole affair.

 

[PR1Berske]

Dom, that's virtually incomprehensible. I suspect Google has a clerical bent.

The photo is totally legible. It's a fine piece by Hislop, though not nearly harsh enough on Welby. Especially after Welby's farewell speech in the Lords.

His crack about the church needing a "head to roll" was despicable. Suggesting he was a scapegoat and not a key actor in the whole affair.

I did think about removing the transcription, I suspect the columns really confused Lens. There is a growing call across the internet to add alt-text to images and I'm trying to be good in doing so

 

[19force8]

I did think about removing the transcription, I suspect the columns really confused Lens. There is a growing call across the internet to add alt-text to images and I'm trying to be good in doing so

Sorry for getting your name wrong

I agree about the Alt text thing even if I rarely remember myself.

 

[stavros]

The photo is totally legible. It's a fine piece by Hislop, though not nearly harsh enough on Welby. Especially after Welby's farewell speech in the Lords.

I'm pretty sure Hislop's piece was published before the Lords speech.

Google Lens has possibly confused itself in looking for page 94 in the Eye.

 

[HeAthen]

Wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or use this one but the Archbishop of York is now accused of allowing sex offenders to continue working in the chruch. Interestingly, when Welby resigned in disgrace Cottrell seemed to only be interested in the impact it would have on the church rather than the devastating effect the abuse has had on the victims.

Calls for Archbishop of York to resign over abuse case failings

Steven Cottrell knew that a priest was banned from being alone with children, but did not dismiss him.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[krtek a houby]

All too depressingly familiar in other denominations

 

[HeAthen]

All too depressingly familiar in other denominations

Absolutely, and regardless of the base religion (and of course organisations with no religious bent to them). It seems that the victims are always a secondary concern to these people.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Absolutely, and regardless of the base religion (and of course organisations with no religious bent to them). It seems that the victims are always a secondary concern to these people.

All about damage limitation for the institution

 

[krtek a houby]

Absolutely, and regardless of the base religion (and of course organisations with no religious bent to them). It seems that the victims are always a secondary concern to these people.

It's all about saving face and letting such abuses be someone else's problem.

 

[tim]

All about damage limitation for the institution

Or the powerful individual which, is the reason we have NDAs. The we'll pay you handomly providing you keep your mouth shut approach.

 

[VivaE]

A fine example of principles V 'principles'. What an absolute self-serving disgrace Welby is.

A children’s charity has rejected a Christmas donation from the outgoing Archbishop of Canterbury, saying that accepting it would not be consistent with its work in supporting victims of child sexual abuse.

Earlier this week Justin Welby – who will officially quit in early January over failures in handling a Church of England abuse scandal – sent an annual e-card for the festive season, and said he was making a donation to The Children’s Society. A message accompanying the card from Mr Welby and his wife Caroline noted that the charity “works with children affected by criminal and sexual exploitation, abuse” and other issues.

But the charity announced on Friday that it had “respectfully decided” not to accept the donation. Mark Russell, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “After careful consideration, we have respectfully decided not to accept the donation offered by the outgoing Archbishop of Canterbury.

Children’s charity rejects Christmas donation from Archbishop Justin Welby

The Children’s Society said it is committed to supporting survivors of abuse and accepting the donation would not be consistent with its principles.

uk.yahoo.com

 

[Wilf]

A fine example of principles V 'principles'. What an absolute self-serving disgrace Welby is.

Children’s charity rejects Christmas donation from Archbishop Justin Welby

The Children’s Society said it is committed to supporting survivors of abuse and accepting the donation would not be consistent with its principles.

uk.yahoo.com

A children's charity rejecting a donation from the A of C, wow. Good on 'em of course, it's just a measure of how far the world has turned.

 

[Agrippa57]

An institution - nay a superstition masquerading as a belief system - confected as a form of coercive control and administered by coercive controllers is found to be coercively controlling members of its purported "flock".
No surprise to me.
Religion has proved to be nothing less than disastrous at best and murderous at worst for millennia.

 

[VivaE]

An institution - nay a superstition masquerading as a belief system - confected as a form of coercive control and administered by coercive controllers is found to be coercively controlling members of its purported "flock".
No surprise to me.
Religion has proved to be nothing less than disastrous at best and murderous at worst for millennia.

That's a given. But what really grieves me here is that Welby, despite the exposed amoral and self-serving rot at the heart of him, is still trying to position himself as someone actively on the side of moral good.

Ian Hislop is my Person of the Year for his righteous takedown of him.

 

[tim]

Direct link to the File on Four programme on David Tudor, the abusive priest who wasn't allowed to be alone with children or to enter Essex Schools but still got promoted to be Area Dean and Honourary Canon of Chelmsford Cathedral.They liked him because he hads charisma and can fill the pews of previously empty churches.

File on 4 Investigates - The abuse survivors calling on archbishop of York to resign - BBC Sounds

As with Welby, the Bishop of Newcastle, seems to be the only one in the hierachy willing to speak out.

 

[quiet guy]

Church hierarchy in full on war against each other. Shame on them for not doing anything about these scandals at the time and now only voicing their "concerns" when they possibly see a glimmer of a chance at the top spot.

 

[weltweit]

So glad not to be CofE .. nor in fact Cof anywhere for that matter