Apple is betting the farm on a VR headset

[8ball]

Going by this page there’s 13 VR titles for the PS5:

PS VR games | The best PS VR games out now & coming soon | PlayStation

Check out some of the biggest and best PS VR games out now and upcoming, watch the latest trailers and discover the incredible new realities that are waiting for you.

www.playstation.com

IME VR games tend to be a lot smaller than their non VR counterparts; unless they’re a port but ports never really work too well.
Perhaps there’s backward compatibility with PS4 games. As I said above VR works really well for car racing games so a headset is worth it for that if you’re REALLY into car racing games. I played Project Cars 2 on the PC and that was head and shoulders above playing it on a screen even with the Quest 1. There were some niggles though which forced me to remove the headset at times in menus. Presumably this would work better if the console and headset are the same manufacturer.

You correctly point out another issue: no backwards compatibility with PSVR 1.

Some of the launch titles are apparently really good, but I think Sony are relying a bit on the PS5 still being good for flat games when someone is waiting for a new title to come out on the VR.

Either that, or ports of older games coming through quite quick (most of those “new” titles are ports).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You correctly point out another issue: no backwards compatibility with PSVR 1.

Some of the launch titles are apparently really good, but I think Sony are relying a bit on the PS5 still being good for flat games when someone is waiting for a new title to come out on the VR.

I wonder if they’ve sorted motion tech. As in games worked better for me if just my head and arms needed to move. So driving, flying a plane, standing still and shooting etc. traversing landscapes was more problematic. That’s where you get motion sickness. I never really got sick but it felt… weird. I was always looking forward to being inside Minecraft for nosiness but that experience was never improved by VR really.

 

[8ball]

I wonder if they’ve sorted motion tech. As in games worked better for me if just my head and arms needed to move. So driving, flying a plane, standing still and shooting etc. traversing landscapes was more problematic. That’s where you get motion sickness. I never really got sick but it felt… weird. I was always looking forward to being inside Minecraft for nosiness but that experience was never improved by VR really.

That’s a tricky one with a lot of half-way solutions out there. In terms of the weirdness, though, a significant number of non-gamers initially find moving in an FPS via thumbstick a bit sick-making.

It goes away for most people after a shortish time, but if I had tried it out at a friend’s house and wanted to barf, there’s no way I’d gamble a four figure sum on it getting better (or even £550 on top of a PS5 I already owned, if I did so).

Had it not been for sanity-theatening lockdown boredom, I probably wouldn’t have bought the Quest 2 (£300 at the time).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

That’s a tricky one with a lot of half-way solutions out there. In terms of the weirdness, though, a significant number of non-gamers initially find moving in an FPS via thumbstick a bit sick-making.

It goes away for most people after a shortish time, but if I had tried it out at a friend’s house and wanted to barf, there’s no way I’d gamble a four figure sum on it getting better (or even £550 on top of a PS5 I already owned, if I did so).

Had it not been for sanity-theatening lockdown boredom, I probably wouldn’t have bought the Quest 2 (£300 at the time).

Haha lockdown drove me to the Quest also. I had a PC that could run games via cable also. It’s probably the best headset out there for being able to do both. Well only headset actually.

 

[8ball]

Haha lockdown drove me to the Quest also. I had a PC that could run games via cable also. It’s probably the best headset out there for being able to do both. Well only headset actually.

Yeah, most PC VR reviews seem to be done with the Q2. Plus you have the Airlink these days if your home network has the grunt.

Bit of a shame that the PSVR2 is cabled. Ditching them makes certain physical games like Superhot way more immersive with a decent-sized playspace.

 

[newme]

That’s a tricky one with a lot of half-way solutions out there. In terms of the weirdness, though, a significant number of non-gamers initially find moving in an FPS via thumbstick a bit sick-making.

It goes away for most people after a shortish time, but if I had tried it out at a friend’s house and wanted to barf, there’s no way I’d gamble a four figure sum on it getting better (or even £550 on top of a PS5 I already owned, if I did so).

Had it not been for sanity-theatening lockdown boredom, I probably wouldn’t have bought the Quest 2 (£300 at the time).

I use the quest 2 standing up and have no problems with it at all, balancing the headset with a better strap and rear battery did help a lot tho but extended the use by hours. Actually found it far easier to get used to than a new controller for a console. Having a reference thing to work to on the floor is useful tho so you don't wander off and know where the front is.

The metaverse idea is stupid, the platform is great for certain things. Buying things, not so much unless its ingame items. Same reason Amazon got disappointed with Alexa, it was supposed to get more orders through not be a novelty. On that front it failed. It simply is not better than a flat screen and is definitely worse in a lot of ways for that purpose. Sure it will have some good apps that could be monetised and extremely useful for adding value to some areas but walking into a virtual shop is more annoying than doing it in an actual shop. AR type features for real shops would be more useful than this but not with a headset.

 

[Crispy]

There's two types of VR motion sickness. The major case is when the virtual world acclerates (ie. rotates, or changes speed), your inner ear doesn't feel the same acceleration, which cuases nausea, and can be acclimated to given enough time. The minor case only seems to affect particularly sensitive people, and is caused by the tiny lag between your motion and the display updating. AFAIK, this can't be acclimated to, so can only be solved by getting the latency right down.

VR experiences that deliberately accelerate the view are badly designed. Constant motion in one direction is fine. In Google Earth VR, when you move around, the view of the world shrinks to tunnel vision, revealing a static grid everywhere else. This is enough of a visual cue to match the inner ear sensing no acceleration.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah, most PC VR reviews seem to be done with the Q2. Plus you have the Airlink these days if your home network has the grunt.

Bit of a shame that the PSVR2 is cabled. Ditching them makes certain physical games like Superhot way more immersive with a decent-sized playspace.

The other plus for the quest over other headsets was that you didn’t need to install external tracking equipment. How does the new PSVR2 shape up on that front?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There's two types of VR motion sickness. The major case is when the virtual world acclerates (ie. rotates, or changes speed), your inner ear doesn't feel the same acceleration, which cuases nausea, and can be acclimated to given enough time. The minor case only seems to affect particularly sensitive people, and is caused by the tiny lag between your motion and the display updating. AFAIK, this can't be acclimated to, so can only be solved by getting the latency right down.

VR experiences that deliberately accelerate the view are badly designed. Constant motion in one direction is fine. In Google Earth VR, when you move around, the view of the world shrinks to tunnel vision, revealing a static grid everywhere else. This is enough of a visual cue to match the inner ear sensing no acceleration.

I love google earth in VR.

E2a strangely the part of the NE I’m from has full 3D photogrammetry on it. Where as I would have expected it would have been last on the list. There isn’t full UK coverage (or wasn’t in 2020).

 

[8ball]

The other plus for the quest over other headsets was that you didn’t need to install external tracking equipment. How does the new PSVR2 shape up on that front?

Inside-out tracking, as with the Quest.

 

[elbows]

The minor case only seems to affect particularly sensitive people, and is caused by the tiny lag between your motion and the display updating. AFAIK, this can't be acclimated to, so can only be solved by getting the latency right down.

VR experiences that deliberately accelerate the view are badly designed. Constant motion in one direction is fine. In Google Earth VR, when you move around, the view of the world shrinks to tunnel vision, revealing a static grid everywhere else. This is enough of a visual cue to match the inner ear sensing no acceleration.

Multiple factors combine to make the vomit-inducing nature of the flight sim near the end of this 1990 Tomorrows World segment on VR quite obvious, especially to those who endured some sub-optimal framerates earlier in the current era of VR.

 

[8ball]

Multiple factors combine to make the vomit-inducing nature of the flight sim near the end of this 1990 Tomorrows World segment on VR quite obvious, especially to those who endured some sub-optimal framerates earlier in the current era of VR.

I remember watching that at the time.

 

[skyscraper101]

There was also that mid nineties one which briefly features in the movie Hackers alongside Bunk off the Wire.

 

[Ming]

Multiple factors combine to make the vomit-inducing nature of the flight sim near the end of this 1990 Tomorrows World segment on VR quite obvious, especially to those who endured some sub-optimal framerates earlier in the current era of VR.

I had a go on one of those back in the 90’s in the Trocadero centre. It was like standing in a dustbin with 20lbs on your head while being stared at by loads of other drunk people. Bit of a laugh actually (dragon themed).

They also head an Aliens themed kind of maze thing where you got chased about by a man in a rubber suit.

 

[skyscraper101]

Good roundup here of what to expect...

AR/VR Headset Rumor Recap: 10 Features Coming to Apple's Next Major Product

Apple in less than two months is planning to enter a new product category, debuting its first mixed reality headset. Rumors suggest that the upcoming...

www.macrumors.com

Couple of key points which I think are notable.

Apple is aiming for comfort, and the AR/VR headset is rumored to be made from mesh fabric and aluminum, making it lighter and thinner than other mixed reality headsets that are available on the market. Apple reportedly wants the weight to be around 200 grams, which would be significantly lighter than the 722 gram Quest Pro from Meta

Over 3 times lighter than the Quest Pro has to be a big draw. As I've always said the biggest problem with VR is the weight and comfort of the headsets. The all but confirmed external battery is going to be key here to losing all that weight.

Also on Quest Pro beating:

Apple plans to use two high-resolution 4K micro-OLED displays from Sony that are said to have up to 3,000 pixels per inch. Comparatively, Meta's new top of the line Quest Pro has LCD displays, so Apple is going to be offering much more advanced display technology.

I'm really looking forward to the ratcheting up of VR in the coming months with competition like this and Apple v Meta's billions

 

[8ball]

I'm really looking forward to the ratcheting up of VR in the coming months with competition like this and Apple v Meta's billions

Won't exactly be very direct competition unless Apple can reduce costs considerably.
We'll have to see how much the Quest 3 costs, though, and also how compatible the Apple headset is with non-Apple PC tech (esp. given the current non-existent software base).

 

[elbows]

how compatible the Apple headset is with non-Apple PC tech (esp. given the current non-existent software base).

I would be very surprised if Apple showed any interest in that side of things at all, its not what they are aiming for I dont think. They will be anticipating developers making stuff for this device within its own ecosystem, and are probably prepared for this to be a long slog. The likely price of the first gen device means they dont need mass market apps from day one anyway, though they do need to make it interesting enough that some developers are prepared to give it a try and build for the platform using the first gen device.

As for the reduced weight, thats easier to achieve when you move some of the device to a pack that you wear elsewhere. But I'm trying to resist getting into these details too much until its formally announced.

 

[8ball]

I would be very surprised if Apple showed any interest in that side of things at all, its not what they are aiming for I dont think.

Well, I hope they considered what happened to Betamax when doing their risk analysis.

 

[pbsmooth]

Is this your first time reading about an Apple product?
The closed ecosystem and premium price seems to have worked pretty well for them these last few years.

 

[8ball]

Is this your first time reading about an Apple product?
The closed ecosystem and premium price seems to have worked pretty well for them these last few years.

The closed ecosystem that actually exists do you mean?

In this case, unlike with other products, Apple are starting from behind.

 

[elbows]

The closed ecosystem that actually exists do you mean?

There was a time before it existed for their other devices too though. They had to get developers to make iphone apps long after the iphone arrived (since there was no app store initially) and then the same with the ipad and the watch.

The difference with those of course was that they could fairly rapidly appeal to developers by demonstrating that lots of customers owned those devices. Their VR/AR offering wont have that sized base on offer in the early years. But they can afford to play a somewhat long game with that platform.

All the same, reports indicate that there is unease within the company about certain aspects of the device and its prospects. Its not surprising, there are a bunch of factors that make it tricky. Just making another device that can tap into existing PC VR apps is not the answer though. What they need is to gradually develop a mix of features that might make this sort of wearable device more compelling, and hope that some developers stumble on some killer apps and something that can overcome the sense that this sort of tech is a solution looking for a problem.

I have to take a very long view rather than writing things like AR off in general, because so far AR is in a very immature phase, and it would be wrong for me to assume it will never ever go anywhere compelling just because its shown few signs of that in its early years. In the past Apple has sometimes got its timing right in terms of waiting till the tech components were good enough before combining them into a device with a very Apple-like set of compromises, a different set of compromises than other companies had gone for, stuff that people could sneer at but that ultimately found mainstream appeal regardless. Its far from clear that they will manage to pull off that sort of compelling result with this device at this time. Wearable computing is tricky, as Google found out with the Glassholes and Microsoft with the Hololense etc etc. Companies are still afraid to completely abandon that whole direction forever though, since if a tipping point is eventually reached they dont want to lose out by being hopelessly late to the party. They'd rather be naively early.

 

[8ball]

There was a time before it existed for their other devices too though. They had to get developers to make iphone apps long after the iphone arrived (since there was no app store initially) and then the same with the ipad and the watch.

Without a comparable or superior offering being available from another provider…

All the same, reports indicate that there is unease within the company about certain aspects of the device and its prospects. Its not surprising, there are a bunch of factors that make it tricky. Just making another device that can tap into existing PC VR apps is not the answer though. What they need is to gradually develop a mix of features that might make this sort of wearable device more compelling, and hope that some developers stumble on some killer apps and something that can overcome the sense that this sort of tech is a solution looking for a problem.

The unease is hardly a surprise if this is the plan.

Should be said that this device is nothing like the Google glasses thing. I’m not sure to what extent they even intend it to be an outdoor thing, but at the moment it looks mostly like an updated VR offering, for which most of the money is currently tied up with gaming.

 

[elbows]

Without a comparable or superior offering being available from another provider…

That narrow view demonstrates is one of the problems with people simplifying everything down to a view that excessively conflates VR and AR, the broader fudge term Mixed Reality etc.

There is no doubt that despite not totally setting the world on fire to start with, Oculus eventually got a good enough offering for certain kinds of VR experience going via the Quest. And there are other options for more hardcore PC gamers, simulation fans, Playstation gamers etc. It broke through to the mainstream to the extent that the likes of my brother eventually got a Quest, but its not really exploded very far past the gimmick stage, its still a bit of a casual curiosity rather than something that had huge immediate implications for computing and gaming more broadly. Its gone well beyond what other gimmicks like the Microsoft Kinect ever managed, but I wouldnt say its gone too much further than the Nintendo Wii managed at its very peak. I say that because the Wii actually broke through a generational gaming barrier in the sense that it got my Mum and her friends to have 'Wii nights', some of the Wiis controllers actually got them to play games in a social group in a way they never showed any interest in doing with games using traditional controllers. But ultimately that Wii stuff didnt go anywhere, it crashed back down to gimmick earth once the novelty wore off and Nintendo (and others) failed to apply that potential to broader platforms and games etc. Perhaps VR has already escaped the same fate, but I wouldnt say its totally certain to be safely clear of the gravitational pull of planet gimmick just yet.

Apple will want to include some aspects that are somewhat comparable with Quest etc VR stuff into its offering, but its hardly the limit of their ambitions. But its far from certain that the underlying tech is ripe for compelling AR yet, and its hard to judge whether people will be inspired to come up with killer AR apps if weaknesses with the enabling tech side are still too great. Likewise skepticism about 'the Metaverse' is very understandable at this stage, but still potentially shortsighted.

I've got a couple of AR ideas myself (unlike VR where I initially had ideas but they quickly died) so I've kept a vague eye on what Apple has done with AR in its phones over the years. Nothing that got me too excited at all so far, a few necessary foundations being built that are still a bit too immature for my liking. The applications I have in mind really require the AR to be offered via a wearable device, not something that is occupying a hand. So I was hoping the first wearable offering from Apple might get us to a point where I could actually begin developing AR stuff. I'm not convinced thats actually going to turn out to be the case though, not with this first device at least. And even if it were just about good enough, what I'm thinking of is rather niche so I dont expect to be part of propelling this stuff into the mainstream even if all the pieces fall into place.

 

[8ball]

You missed my edit, but the form factor currently mooted for the Apple device doesn’t suggest any revolutionary AR applications to me. It looks more like a VR device with some extra development on the AR elements.

I think it’s likely that in the medium term at least, the tech will likely split, with most consumer AR being fairly unobtrusive (it looks like it might need to be less obtrusive than Google glass), and more VR-focused systems keeping a larger form factor and more onboard power. Probably with some options for group AR use in tailored environments (as opposed to when out and about).

There are also quite a few people who don’t get on (visually or motion sickness wise) with the tech as it is right now, but I expect that proportion will be whittled down over time.

 

[elbows]

Yes the hardware side of AR being in the slow lane is one of the reasons I downgraded my expectations from this first Apple device.

As for compelling killer apps for AR, I wont be surprised if ther fate of AR is tied not just to the hardware tech and wearable side overcoming certain barriers, but also some clever application of machine learning into the mix. I'm generally rather impressed by Apples modern processors, so the amount of grunt on offer may turn out to give them a bunch of advantages. Its just a question of whether people will harness the processing power in compelling ways quickly enough, and whether other problems with wearable devices and attitudes still get in the way too much.

 

[elbows]

And I write off the whole 'they need to compete with Quest etc' angle off as a red herring for this first device because of its likely price. Its not trying to compete and be mainstream with that sort of price, a price that sounds like it will be well beyond even what people are used to from the heaviest of Apples premiums. Some customers will be the sort of non-dev early adopters and Apple fans with very large amounts of money to burn, a segment that isnt interesting to me and who are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only sort of customers for this first gen device that are actually of interest to me are developers, and perhaps a few niche case users in specific industries. Apple need to include just enough in this device that some of those developers will have their imagination captured enough to justify investing in the platform at this stage, because they can imagine building specific compelling things. Those things eventually find a broader viable market via cheaper subsequent iterations of the tech is for a later chapter. Whats vital at this stage is that developers come and build some of this stuff, and I cannot predict too much about that till more detail emerges. Apple need to pitch the device to just enough developers successfully this year.

 

[8ball]

And I write off the whole 'they need to compete with Quest etc' angle off as a red herring for this first device because of its likely price. Its not trying to compete and be mainstream with that sort of price, a price that sounds like it will be well beyond even what people are used to from the heaviest of Apples premiums. Some customers will be the sort of non-dev early adopters and Apple fans with very large amounts of money to burn, a segment that isnt interesting to me and who are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only sort of customers for this first gen device that are actually of interest to me are developers, and perhaps a few niche case users in specific industries. Apple need to include just enough in this device that some of those developers will have their imagination captured enough to justify investing in the platform at this stage, because they can imagine building specific compelling things. Those things eventually find a broader viable market via cheaper subsequent iterations of the tech is for a later chapter. Whats vital at this stage is that developers come and build some of this stuff, and I cannot predict too much about that till more detail emerges. Apple need to pitch the device to just enough developers successfully this year.

That sounds like the kind of plan you might hatch if already minted and when you’re facing a decade of cheap credit to tempt developers and investors.

Apple have half of that going for them, but I’m not sure about the economics of it.

 

[elbows]

Theres every chance that my own personal focus on developers due to being one myself (albeit not personally active in Apples ecosystems at this time) means I am guessing wrong about the limits of how they will market this first gen device.

eg they probably will pitch it as being ready for consumers, despite the price. They will emphasise how powerful it is, the quality of the displays, the tracking/interaction systems. They will promote certain social features, and they will already have some 3rd party developers lined up to show off some games and apps. They will lean on some tv/cinema experiences. Maybe they will make use of the ipad software catalogue to help fill the initial content gap.

I've got no prediction about how compelling they will make that pitch. If they can make it seem like thge first full computing experience that is wearable then that might help. Its not hard to predict that people will take the piss out of the price and some other aspects, probably including the battery pack being worn elsewhere on the body and any attempt at a virtual keyboard. Those negative responses wont be a perfect guide as to whether the platform ultimately has legs, just like people initially taking the piss out of the ipad for its name and for 'just being a giant phone' was no guide as to the merit of tablets.

 

[8ball]

Going to be tricky considering that the first iPhone was in what is a fairly mid-range price for a smartphone today. In real terms they haven’t come down in price, and the top end models are a lot more.

There won’t be the kind of credit deals that people used to make smartphones affordable, and it is starting at a price point well beyond initial alternatives.
That said, the iPod was a pretty expensive mp3 player when it came out…

 

[Chilli.s]

Iv had time on several vr things, and was talked into getting the playstation one by younger gamer. Using any of them stood up does require a lot of space to do safely, a rich mate set up a room for one. I didnt find the size or weight of the headset too intrusive, what was the real barrier to enjoyment for me was the nausea after about an hour.