Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?

[nightowl]

The mental health thing reminds me of when I was trying to get help for my son a couple of years ago when he was going through severe teenage trauma. I got the impression that unless you were about to slit your wrists you either had the choice of waiting for endless months for an assessment or reaching into your own pocket to go private.

 

[emanymton]

Anyone else feel like the NHS almost doesn't exist for them any more?​

The scenario with trying to book an appointment as well is exactly mine and I'm sure a lot of others experience I always think though, if you're always way down the queue even if you dial bang on opening - who does get the first appointments? Surely someone must but how come it's never us? Unless it's a scam which I think is a possibility, I.e. there are no early appointments and everyone is told they're way down the queue, that way they can say the same to everybody that once you get to number one after a few hours - no appointments left. If they do this then they can repeatedly do anything but see patients every morning.

I'm not sure about scam but there is something odd. As I said mine only used to do same day appointments and it was impossible to get one by phone, but I never had a problem when I just walked down for when they opened. And while I was there they would not be taking lots of calls.

This was a time I was off sick with stress for about 2 months and was having an appointment every week or 2 to renew my fit note, and then I got covid not long after I went back and ended up needed a fit note for another week, so I had quite a bit of experience with the system at the time.

 

[lazythursday]

Mine is ok if you fill in the online form - they come back to you fairly quickly and once that's led to an actual appointment. But it specifically says it's for non-urgent stuff, I dread to think what it's like booking an urgent appointment. But it increasingly feels like you have to pre-research stuff yourself and know what you want them to do for you, and also as someone else said above, learn to interpret your own tests because most of the time there's no follow up or anything. I've ended up going private for physio and also paying for my own tests sometimes because dealing with the GP is difficult and I'm aware plenty of people need the slots more than me.

A friend of mine with multiple conditions has been really screwed by a terrible GP practice - not reading or responding to letters from consultants, not prescribing urgent drugs, not passing on info and tests etc back to hospitals. Doing zero of the co-ordination role GPs should do. She had to fight really hard to get another practice because there's not a single other practice that will normally take people from her area. You hear the same horror stories over and over from different parts of the country. The whole thing is fucked.

I don't think this situation is entirely due to lack of funding for GPs either. It was basically predicted by the Wanless Report twenty years ago - which said that due to the rise of chronic conditions and people living longer the health service would be overwhelmed without a step change in prevention / more people being fully engaged with their own health. But all that stuff would have required more regulation of things like junk food, a lot more money spent on public health initiatives, all stuff that was far too nanny state for the Tories to accept. Instead they palmed public health off onto local authorities and slashed spending to the bone. And we are where we are.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating what has already been said.

The NHS at basic level is utterly appalling, it would shame a developing nation.

The NHS when the shit hits the fan is magnificent. If you are seriously ill it moves quickly and effectively.

 

[editor]

I've given up on my GP as it's totally impossible to get an appointment - or even get through to a human.

However, when I went through the 'call 111/app' route recently I had brilliant treatment - within an hour they'd set me with an appointment in my local hospital and I got treated really promptly.

 

[lazythursday]

I've given up on my GP as it's totally impossible to get an appointment - or even get through to a human.

However, when I went through the 'call 111/app' route recently I had brilliant treatment - within an hour they'd set me with an appointment in my local hospital and I got treated really promptly.

Yeah, my friend who I mentioned a few posts ago has had brilliant service from 111 - they have sometimes effectively overruled the GP and insisted on them providing an appointment, or have sent their own roving GP.

 

[freshapple]

My Brixton GP is great. Get either a same day telephone or same day/next day appointment.

 

[editor]

My Brixton GP is great. Get either a same day telephone or same day/next day appointment.

Can you share their details because I've got to switch from the Akerman centre,

 

[Lotte]

I'm mentally ill. Took me 2 years to get a therapist, who was excellent. During that time I self-harmed a lot and was picked up by the police after I sat on the edge of a platform at a tram station crying and debating whether to jump. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

On the one hand in terms of the treatment I get for my MS the service is brilliant. As is my GP.... when I can get through to them which is so, so difficult and frustrating.

111 is great, I've taken to phoning them and using that as a way of getting a GP/hospital appointment.

 

[Jammy smears]

It can be really hit and miss.
I haven't seen my GP in over a decade as I've been lucky with my health and usually just see the chemist for minor things and diagnose myself via google. The last time I used the NHS was when I got a callback after a routine mammogram, I had a letter within days calling me in for a check up, I had biopsies done and another more indepth mammogram and a some other type of scan, the nurses were absolutely wonderful looking after me. Within a month I was called back for the results, thankfully all clear for cancer, just had some other stuff going on that they will keep an eye on. It was faultless from start to finish.
My son has also had only good dealings, he's back on forth to the GP with anxiety, acid reflux and constipation and every time they let me in with him as he's autistic and doesn't want to talk to them and they're so good with him and are going through every medication known to man to try and help him.
My husband on the hand went to see his GP mid pandemic with one leg twice the size of the other, he was seen quickly and checked out and referred to a lymphodema clinc, over a year went by without hearing a thing so he got back in touch with his GP who had lost the referal so they started again from scratch and this time he was prescribed tablets to make him pee. It was another year or more before he went to see the specialist who measured him up for leg wraps and upped the dose of his diuretics. A few months later he was in total agony where his kidneys are. I told him to stop taking his tablets which he did. He rang the clinic who told him to continue taking tablets but to make appointment with GP for blood tests. He wanted to start taking the tablets while he waited for GP appointment but I'd googled the side effects and insisted he didn't. It took two weeks to see the GP who told him to quit the tablets immediately, thankfully he already had, it took another month to fit him in for bloodtests. Two weeks later they rang to say his cholestoral was borderline but no mention of the results for what he'd actually had bloodtests for! Meanwhile he's on no medication and his leg and foot is uncomfrtably swollen and we're still waiting for someone to do something. It's been four years now.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'm mentally ill. Took me 2 years to get a therapist, who was excellent. During that time I self-harmed a lot and was picked up by the police after I sat on the edge of a platform at a tram station crying and debating whether to jump. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

that the system is so crap

it seems that the general approach to mental health is that there's a very small gap between 'sorry, you're not bad enough for us to do anything, go away' and 'sorry, you're too bad for us to do anything, go away'

one friend ended up doing time when police intervention to a mental health crisis did not end well...

 

[moochedit]

I didn't do the 'phone up at 8am thing', I just asked them for their next appointment. It was two weeks away. Day before the appointment they phoned me up and say the doctor's off sick, you can see a physio or a (insert acronym I've heard of before). What's an (acronym) I ask. Oh, someone who treats minor injuries. Can't prescribe or diagnose. Actual doctors mostly do mental health now, they said. What are my chances of seeing a doctor I asked. Next appointment is in a week and a bit. I've already been waiting in pain for a fortnight, wasn't really willing to wait another ten days on top of that so I've accepted the physio appointment. But I likely need some imaging done and I have no idea if a physio can or will order that.

I saw a "clinical pharmacist" and eventually got referred to the hospital. I think the gp did the actual referal (copy of letter is on my nhs app) although i never met the gp in person.

 

[Elpenor]

More importantly if you can get the results to get into medical school why would you spend that long at Uni and accrue the significant debt to do an very stressful and difficult job that pays, at junior doctor level, very poorly (Lab gov doing something about that, but not fixing anything else) and places you in work situations that are at best morally harmful, at worst genuinely unsafe.

spot on - poor junior doctor pay and conditions risk losing the talent pipeline to corporate jobs, not to forget those who will decide at 18 not to study medicine as they can do the same long hours of a junior doctor in corporate finance or law for a far higher salary.

 

[teqniq]

Maybe I am fortunate but right now the service and treatment I have been getting from the NHS has been exemplary. Got a nasty infection in my leg. Got to see my GP twice with little difficulty and was referred to on of our nearby large hospitals. Put on intravenous antibiotics, sent to another hospital the next day for an ultrasound scan on my leg for suspected deep vein thrombosis - all clear thankfully. Intravenous antibiotic treatment ongoing as a out patient, slowly getting better. Cannot sing their praises highly enough.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Mine is ok if you fill in the online form - they come back to you fairly quickly and once that's led to an actual appointment. But it specifically says it's for non-urgent stuff, I dread to think what it's like booking an urgent appointment. But it increasingly feels like you have to pre-research stuff yourself and know what you want them to do for you, and also as someone else said above, learn to interpret your own tests because most of the time there's no follow up or anything. I've ended up going private for physio and also paying for my own tests sometimes because dealing with the GP is difficult and I'm aware plenty of people need the slots more than me.

A friend of mine with multiple conditions has been really screwed by a terrible GP practice - not reading or responding to letters from consultants, not prescribing urgent drugs, not passing on info and tests etc back to hospitals. Doing zero of the co-ordination role GPs should do. She had to fight really hard to get another practice because there's not a single other practice that will normally take people from her area. You hear the same horror stories over and over from different parts of the country. The whole thing is fucked.

I don't think this situation is entirely due to lack of funding for GPs either. It was basically predicted by the Wanless Report twenty years ago - which said that due to the rise of chronic conditions and people living longer the health service would be overwhelmed without a step change in prevention / more people being fully engaged with their own health. But all that stuff would have required more regulation of things like junk food, a lot more money spent on public health initiatives, all stuff that was far too nanny state for the Tories to accept. Instead they palmed public health off onto local authorities and slashed spending to the bone. And we are where we are.

This is the fundamental shift , GPs now are much more aobut being Specialists in Chronic disease management and before the recruitment crisis got acute RCGP were still pushing for GPCCT to require 4 or 5 years of post grad ( plus the 2 foundation years) training rather than the 3 ( plus the 2 FY) and routine Urgent care is in the hands of UTCs , often co -located with Emergency Departments , as Walk in Centres / Stand alone UTCs in the same town as a Emeertgnecy department seemed ot create system / throughput issues , plus also created arguably unnecessary but Arse -coverage driven C1 and C2 Interfacilty emergency ambulance transfers. what we see in Towns without an Emergency Department is often that the UTC has an expanded offering ( senior medical presence in the day, Plain film X rays , Fracture clinic as outreach etc)

 

[SpookyFrank]

Got referred for an x-ray on the 23rd of August. Was marked 'urgent'. Today I got sick of waiting for an appointment and phoned the hospital. They had an address for me from 30 years ago but otherwise had no idea who I was, no referral received. Phoned the GP surgery, yes we sent it. Phoned the hospital, no sorry there's no referral. Got the GP surgery to resend the referral. Phoned the hospital again, still nothing.

I mean for fuck's sake. What am I supposed to do? This is just to get to the back of the queue for an x-ray appointment, after which I'll have to go back to the doctor who I still haven't been able to see in a month of trying.

E2a: GP surgery getting really fucking snippy with me now. It's clear that between them and the hospital someone has made a mistake but I don't care what the mistake is or who made it, I just want my x-ray. They made a point of telling me, oh we've got 4,000 patients on the books you know. OK, all the more reason to make sure your basic processes for stuff like referrals actually work. If you don't want endless phone calls from patients trying to access care, maybe you should try actually helping them the first time, being as that's your fucking job.

Got to go in for a blood test tomorrow. If they manage to fuck that up as well I don't think I can mentally cope with it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Still dealing with lingering fatigue from Covid in July. I didn’t know I was supposed to inform my GP I had it and had 7 days off, so work want a fit note for 2 days. My surgery informed me they wouldn’t issue one retrospectively and cos I didn’t tell them about it when I was ill with it. So I booked a face to face appointment with a doctor I’ve known for half of my life, as I’m sure they’ll issue the note.
This was back in August, but the next appointment I could get was next Tuesday, so that’s a long wait.
However, I still haven’t recovered, probs cos I didn’t rest enough in my convalescence (I cycle to work and the 15 minute commute is quite an intense anaerobic workout both ways).
So I’m having a few days off, not leaving the flat, in case I’m tempted to rush myself out of breath.
I’m only supposed to ask about one thing in my 10 minute appointment though. Can’t decide if I should ask for a double appointment and wait even longer or just to ambush them with all of my ailments.

tl;dr:
Got an appointment next week for one thing, but my health situation has become more complicated. It will take more than the allotted 10 mins to go through it. Should I just insist on the day that they listen to my woes, or should I cancel and rebook for a double appointment? At the mo, there’s a 6-8 week wait for a next appointment.

 

[Red Cat]

I would go and tackle the first issue, which is the fit note. Then give them some idea of the other things you want to bring up and see how far you get in the one appt.

 

[steeplejack]

I'm a diabetic and honestly couldn't ask anymore from the NHS, diabetic clinics they run are brilliant and really supportive, staffed by people who can't do enough for you.

GP care is another matter, it has basically collapsed. My local GP surgery is intent on developing a "Netflix style" £20 a month fee so semi-private patients can jump the queue. Hardly a rock solid commitment to healthcare free at the point of need. I'm leaving the current city where I live soon enough and won't be sad to see the back of the Tory cunts. I know from friends in the South East that GP services have fallen apart under the pressures in certain areas.

That said, bad as things are, things are much, much worse in other countries in Eastern Europe. Bribes for quicker treatment are routine. In Bosnia I know someone who gave birth and beyond the actual moment of birth itself was left to fend for herself- no care, no treatment, no interest. You pay if you want the doctor to give a vague shit rather than none at all, and family members bring food and comforts. During Covid folk in Belgrade were desperate to avoid being sent to one particualr tumbledown old hospital- it's where you went to die, unofficially, as there was little treatment available. In Macedonia, hospital buildings are often in a very poor state and there's a general rule- enjoy yourself, but don't get ill.

Someone I know in Bosnia needed an urgent scan for potential cancer (turns out they were fine, thankfully, after they went private). At the state hospital a puffed up receptionist with expensive nails leafed through a big leather volume of appointments (they still exist) and offered, in July, an appointment for May next year- the first available. LOL.

Yes there are acute problems with public healthcare and GP services in the UK but there's an awful long way to fall. There's at least some residual chance of things getting better here. Ultimately, the root of the problem is an ageing population with consumerist type expectations overwhelming the system with complex problems and demands, coupled with a hollowing out of the care sector. That's before we get onto the commodification of healthcare for profit.

 

[Saffy]

I'm waiting for some investigations. Was supposed to be on the 2 week referral pathway but I didn't quite meet the criteria. I'm trying to be a Pollyanna about it and think surely that means they're not that worried about me.
Checked my nhs app and I have an appointment booked for late September at 2am. From asking friends I think this is just a placeholder and I'll get a phone call or later on that day. Who knows!

 

[mentalchik]

Got referred for an x-ray on the 23rd of August. Was marked 'urgent'. Today I got sick of waiting for an appointment and phoned the hospital. They had an address for me from 30 years ago but otherwise had no idea who I was, no referral received. Phoned the GP surgery, yes we sent it. Phoned the hospital, no sorry there's no referral. Got the GP surgery to resend the referral. Phoned the hospital again, still nothing.

I mean for fuck's sake. What am I supposed to do? This is just to get to the back of the queue for an x-ray appointment, after which I'll have to go back to the doctor who I still haven't been able to see in a month of trying.

E2a: GP surgery getting really fucking snippy with me now. It's clear that between them and the hospital someone has made a mistake but I don't care what the mistake is or who made it, I just want my x-ray. They made a point of telling me, oh we've got 4,000 patients on the books you know. OK, all the more reason to make sure your basic processes for stuff like referrals actually work. If you don't want endless phone calls from patients trying to access care, maybe you should try actually helping them the first time, being as that's your fucking job.

Got to go in for a blood test tomorrow. If they manage to fuck that up as well I don't think I can mentally cope with it.

I feel your pain....waited almost 5 weeks for an MRI to then discover they didn't look at the right area



Am still waiting for my x-ray results which was10 days ago...meanwhile my life is turning to shit....i love and cherish the NHS and i totally understand the pressure they're under but simple stuff like proper communication would go a long way to help and also speed things up....i don't see the point of taking notes if no fucker actually reads them

 

[PTK]

Or when you get transferred from one hospital to another, and apparently an email was not received, and you have to self-refer for certain kinds of support.

 

[taperoo2k]

Mental Health services just aren't there, even for basic stuff like talking therapies. The waiting lists are long, all I managed to get was online group therapy during the pandemic. I've heard a lot of horror stories from those who've tried to access
crisis teams.

My GP surgery is in a bit of disarray at the moment, the senior partner died unexpectedly from natural causes at the end of August. They are still
providing services, but I guess sorting out the management side of the practise and grieving for a colleague/friend must be very hard. Still, I've got my asthma review tomorrow,
so the patient facing side of things is running smoothly. I've had some minor issues with the surgery over the years, but they were usually ironed out quickly.

 

[Artaxerxes]

GPs drew up the drawbridge and barricaded themselves away during covid and I don’t think they ever really opened themselves up again.

 

[Edie]

GPs drew up the drawbridge and barricaded themselves away during covid and I don’t think they ever really opened themselves up again.

Jfc what a frigging ignorant opinion

My two best mates are GPs and we got pissed together last night. For reference I’m a Consultant. When I tell you we spent about three hours talking about how fucking hard their jobs are compared to mine I’m not exaggerating.

Here are some ways their job is mind bogglingly hard:

• Ten minute appointments, the shortest pretty much anywhere in the world
• Up to 48 patients a day, telephone and face to face, plus home visits
• Admin (and by this I mean clinical admin like referrals, results etc) on top
• Undifferentiated patients
• Enormous burden of risk of missing the zebra. Everyone misses a zebra at least once in a career- then you get sued and it’s fucking insanely stressful
• The sheer complexity of most LTC patients nowadays
• The worried well
• The hEDS, MCAS, fibro, functional complex patients
• The fact primary care IS now the MH service cos secondary care MH services are de facto non-existent for all but a few
• GP to kindly… do fucking everything that really should be done in secondary care (start, monitor drugs, follow up this that the other) because secondary care is rammed and the buck ALWAYS stops with GPs
• The absolute shit show that is quack PAs, paid for by ARRS, supervised by GPs so a conscientious GP in effect has to see/discuss all THEIR patients as well. The less conscientious don’t supervise closely and the PA will just make shit clinical decisions and let more people die than would have if they’d actually seen a doctor who has been to medical school and trained post-medical school for five years before they see a patient unsupervised.

Let me tell you, I have done five years med school, plus a PhD genetics, plus all my royal college membership exams (60% pass rate per exam), plus worked as a doctor for TEN YEARS, and I know for an absolute fact that I would not be safe to do a days work as a GP.

Slag off GPs at your own cost. Because you will not find a harder working, more passionate advocate for patients or the NHS than our GPs. And guess what? The Government are getting rid by stealth anyway, replacing them with PAs, advanced paramedics, ANPs, prescribing pharmacists etc etc. And like lambs to the slaughter you will go.

Pay them fucking double and be grateful.

 

[Edie]

And always, always ask for a doctor.

Especially if you’re having an anaesthetic. If you think me or mine would ever be anaesthetised by a fucking AA quack with a zoology degree and a two year mickey mouse course “in the medical model” you’re having a laugh. Except it’s not fucking funny.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Jfc what a frigging ignorant opinion

My two best mates are GPs and we got pissed together last night. For reference I’m a Consultant. When I tell you we spent about three hours talking about how fucking hard their jobs are compared to mine I’m not exaggerating.

Here are some ways their job is mind bogglingly hard:

• Ten minute appointments, the shortest pretty much anywhere in the world
• Up to 48 patients a day, telephone and face to face, plus home visits
• Admin (and by this I mean clinical admin like referrals, results etc) on top
• Undifferentiated patients
• Enormous burden of risk of missing the zebra. Everyone misses a zebra at least once in a career- then you get sued and it’s fucking insanely stressful
• The sheer complexity of most LTC patients nowadays
• The worried well
• The hEDS, MCAS, fibro, functional complex patients
• The fact primary care IS now the MH service cos secondary care MH services are de facto non-existent for all but a few
• GP to kindly… do fucking everything that really should be done in secondary care (start, monitor drugs, follow up this that the other) because secondary care is rammed and the buck ALWAYS stops with GPs
• The absolute shit show that is quack PAs, paid for by ARRS, supervised by GPs so a conscientious GP in effect has to see/discuss all THEIR patients as well. The less conscientious don’t supervise closely and the PA will just make shit clinical decisions and let more people die than would have if they’d actually seen a doctor who has been to medical school and trained post-medical school for five years before they see a patient unsupervised.

Let me tell you, I have done five years med school, plus a PhD genetics, plus all my royal college membership exams (60% pass rate per exam), plus worked as a doctor for TEN YEARS, and I know for an absolute fact that I would not be safe to do a days work as a GP.

Slag off GPs at your own cost. Because you will not find a harder working, more passionate advocate for patients or the NHS than our GPs. And guess what? The Government are getting rid by stealth anyway, replacing them with PAs, advanced paramedics, ANPs, prescribing pharmacists etc etc. And like lambs to the slaughter you will go.

Pay them fucking double and be grateful.

My experience of GP's has mostly been good. But at present they're all guarded by rotweiler-esque admin staff whose job seems to be not letting anyone get anywhere near one. That and failing to send a simple fucking email properly.

 

[Edie]

My experience of GP's has mostly been good. But at present they're all guarded by rotweiler-esque admin staff whose job seems to be not letting anyone get anywhere near one. That and failing to send a simple fucking email properly.

You have no idea. And I say that kindly.

 

[Edie]

I’m sorry to be harsh but the days of how good your “experience” is are over.

You do right to relentlessly chase everything because those that can’t, won’t or are too ill to will be lost.

The system is utterly broken. A sham health service that is more dangerous in its pretence of delivering care than if you didn’t think it was there at all. A roll on the roulette of whether your life will be saved or you’ll die in an ED waiting room, from cancer treatment delayed, in labour in dire understaffed maternity units, or just on the floor at home from the ambulance that came 6 hours too late.

Get private healthcare asap.

My kids, most other doctor colleagues I know and the fucking GMC do If that doesn’t signify something to you I cannot help you. I’m uninsurable (brain aneurysm, CKD 3b, RA) so I’ve just accepted I’ll die young.

None of this is your GP receptionists fault for fuck sake.