Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[Treacle Toes]

If you want to troll go ahead,

Erm what?

Thanks for your permission to post here, see I just love people telling me what I can and can't do. Must be these pesky ovaries and all the man hating anger I am carrying around.

 

[Dowie]

Aren't you making a bit of an assumption that all these men are straight and want relationships with women ?

I didn't state all of them were and its kind of irrelevant - even setting aside significant portions of gay, bi and asexual males there are still going to be millions of straight, unmarried 'broken branches'. It would be interesting if homosexuality saw a big increase in China and/or if it forced attitude changes - perhaps China could become gay friendly (they legalised it in the late 90s and stopped classifying it as a mental illness just over a decade ago so there is some hope I guess...)

After WWI it was feared that there'd be a similar problem to the one you describe because of all the excess women (compared to the number of young and single men who were either maimed, psychologically wrecked, or had been killed by the war or Spanish Flu), who would never marry, or (even if they married) would never bear children.

As it turned out, society adapted to allow women to socialise and enjoy themselves with or without men. Similarly, working to support themselves became more acceptable. Cohabiting spinsters, with no implication of them being lesbians, became far more the norm.

In the end, those so-called excess women turned out to be a blessing, not a burden on society. They didn't have to worry about childcare etc, so they had the time and energy for other things.

I'm not sure the fact excess women didn't cause an issue can necessarily indicate that excess men won't... Its been an issue in the past for China.

 

[extra dry]

I am half way through his manifesto, the guy had major issues from an early age. But that is still no excuse for what he did. Mental health care in the USA is failing a lot of people. Just all very sad and avoidable.

 

[rekil]

More terrible and extraordinarily worthless opinions on this mess, this time courtesy of Milo Yiannopoulos.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/27/virgin-killer-was-not-a-misogynist-but-a-madman

So ignore the shoddy, opportunistic posturing from feminists about Rodger’s crimes. It’s the blurring of fantasy and reality in today’s video game-obsessed young men that’s the real enemy. If there’s a cultural milieu that contributed to the creation of Elliot Rodger, it was that of nihilistic video games, not the myth of patriarchal oppression.

 

[DotCommunist]

he said aetoligy

 

[Red Cat]

I've read his manifesto, and what I'm left with is that for Elliot Rodger, this wasn't about having a girlfriend. It was exclusively about having a tall, blonde, high-status girlfriend. Other women and girls exist in his writing but are dismissed as irrelevant.

His overwhelming driver seems to have been status, he was obsessed with things being high class/low class, and his anger and frustration seems to have been entirely related to not attaining the status he believed he deserved. His typical teenaged horniness then got railroaded into the "incel" mindset (involuntary celibate), which became a self fulfilling prophecy.

He wasn't prepared to complete his uni classes or work for a living, so he spent thousands on lottery tickets (but only when the jackpot was a massive cumulative rollover)... He saw any women other than tall, glamorous blondes as insignificant, and got furious when they didn't come up to him and start chatting him up.

I think the misogyny, while vile, was the lesser of his furies.

Yes. He talks very early on, about when he was 6, about not having been allowed to go on a ride at Universal Studios because he was too short and how humiliated he felt. And that, I think, is the crux of it. Some psychotherapists say that if you're really paying attention, the central problem is clear in the first session. And I think his problem is right there in the first pages. And the rest, a desperate and increasingly paranoid and grandiose means of overcoming that.

I've felt compelled to think about this but I feel quite sick now.

 

[Red Cat]

I am half way through his manifesto, the guy had major issues from an early age. But that is still no excuse for what he did. Mental health care in the USA is failing a lot of people. Just all very sad and avoidable.

Well, maybe not. There is no guarantee that any mental health work will be successful.

I think it would be really good if we could just get over having to say it's no excuse every time we offer explanations on these matters - does anyone really think that explanation = oh, that's ok then ?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Interesting thought: if he'd been captured instead of killed, how many here would be clamoring that he receive the death penalty?

Not that interesting really is it?

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

I guess the Chinese are about to find out!

They'll be roped into the Chinese army and there will be a WW3.
Problem solved...

 

[Mikey77]

More terrible and extraordinarily worthless opinions on this mess, this time courtesy of Milo Yiannopoulos.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/27/virgin-killer-was-not-a-misogynist-but-a-madman

Blaming it on computer games is no better than blaming it on PUA. Plenty of bloggers are labelling the guy according to their own agenda. I think one of the most significant labels I heard again and again from Americans is "loser". But then if this guy was a "loser" for being an anti-social virgin is it any wonder he would end up in a downward spiral. The self fulfilling prophecy thing has something in it, but popular culture - hedonistic winner "frat boys", and "losers" are also relevant labels. Perhaps he fulfilled other people's prophecies. I wonder if this is a twice a decade thing. I'm off to Ladbrokes.

 

[dylanredefined]

They'll be roped into the Chinese army and there will be a WW3.
Problem solved...

Manpower is one thing the PLA does not need already has over 2 million soldiers plus reserves. Technically it has conscription never needed to use it as it has plenty of volunters.

 

[xenon]

Yes. He talks very early on, about when he was 6, about not having been allowed to go on a ride at Universal Studios because he was too short and how humiliated he felt. And that, I think, is the crux of it. Some psychotherapists say that if you're really paying attention, the central problem is clear in the first session. And I think his problem is right there in the first pages. And the rest, a desperate and increasingly paranoid and grandiose means of overcoming that.

I've felt compelled to think about this but I feel quite sick now.

What do you mean. That one minor incident could be the foundation of his problems?

It begs the question, how can such a nominally trivial incident have such a profound effect. What's different about him, his psychology. (retorrical obv.)

 

[Red Cat]

What do you mean. That one minor incident could be the foundation of his problems?

It begs the question, how can such a nominally trivial incident have such a profound effect. What's different about him, his psychology. (retorrical obv.)

Of course not! It's symbolic of his relationship with himself and the world. It's the underlying dynamic of all his relationships.

Hope that's clearer.

 

[Idris2002]

I'm off to Ladbrokes.

Never to return, I hope.

 

[Idris2002]

Manpower is one thing the PLA does not need already has over 2 million soldiers plus reserves. Technically it has conscription never needed to use it as it has plenty of volunters.

What if they need some minefields cleared?

 

[xenon]

Of course not! It's symbolic of his relationship with himself and the world.

Ah right gotya.

 

[likesfish]

What if they need some minefields cleared?

Much better ways of doing it the pla is quite hi tech these days.
The days of huge numbers of poorly equipped conscripts are over for any would be world power which china wants to be.
The only thing a massive army with an ak and a bowl of rice vs the US is a prisoner of war problem.

 

[Mikey77]

Much better ways of doing it the pla is quite hi tech these days.
The days of huge numbers of poorly equipped conscripts are over for any would be world power which china wants to be.
The only thing a massive army with an ak and a bowl of rice vs the US is a prisoner of war problem.

The Viet Cong did OK.

 

[Red Cat]

Can this conversation be taken to another thread?

 

[Idris2002]

The Viet Cong did OK.

They knew how to deal with the likes of you, anyway.

 

[DotCommunist]

The Viet Cong did OK.

in the 60s, on home ground

 

[Mikey77]

in the 60s, on home ground

My point was a bowl of rice and a gun is no barrier to beating a superpower. Of course there are other variables, like how many kids should be napalmed etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Much better ways of doing it the pla is quite hi tech these days.
The days of huge numbers of poorly equipped conscripts are over for any would be world power which china wants to be.
The only thing a massive army with an ak and a bowl of rice vs the US is a prisoner of war problem.

it's a fucking massive problem if you let your prisoners have aks

 

[likesfish]

The viet comg got wiped out during the tet offensive So they didnt do ok and the nva regualrs didnt win till uncle sam went home.
So the chinese army wants to look at least on paper as if it can go toe to toe with the us it needs all the toys not another million men with aks.

 

[Belushi]

Seriously, the thread has turned into blokes discussing whether we should reintroduce polyamory and the Vietnam war?

 

[Greebo]

Seriously, the thread has turned into blokes discussing whether we should reintroduce polyamory and the Vietnam war?

Perhaps some men just aren't ready to think seriously about what other ways (apart from continuing the bloodline/family name, becoming a soldier, or becoming a monk) might exist for them to make a lasting contribution to society in general.

 

[Idris2002]

Seriously, the thread has turned into blokes discussing whether we should reintroduce polyamory and the Vietnam war?

POLYANDRY.

Not all kinship systems, etc.

 

[Mikey77]

it's a fucking massive problem if you let your prisoners have aks

Didn't the SAS show how easily that could be sorted out in Afghanistan. They must have been effective. I distinctly remember Martin McGuiness being quite ruffled on Question Time.

 

[Pickman's model]

Didn't the SAS show how easily that could be sorted out in Afghanistan. They must have been effective. I distinctly remember Martin McGuiness being quite ruffled on Question Time.

 

[Idris2002]

Jaysus, ZZTop are looking awful rough these days.