Another Russian spy hit?

[AnnaKarpik]

I am interested in the machinations and thinking behind this...

As others have said, why use a nerve agent that can be traced so easily and obviously to Russia? <snip>

Even May couldn't say the Russians made this nerve agent; the best she could manage was the Russians developed it.

Seems unlikely to me that this has been much of a secret for all of the intervening fifty years; if we can ID it, we can surely make it. And if we can make it, undoubtedly others can too.

I'm still looking for a plausible motive. Looking tough for the electorate at home smells wrong if it is true that we can retaliate in meaningful ways. I don't think this is a miscalculation that Putin & co would make. If Anyone-but-Russia wanted to damage Russia though, they found a great way to do it.

 

[2hats]

Seems unlikely to me that this has been much of a secret for all of the intervening fifty years; if we can ID it, we can surely make it. And if we can make it, undoubtedly others can too.

It’s been an open ‘secret’ for years. Probably synthesised in a handful of research labs at analytical quantities but AFAIK only the Russians have stockpiled it and the only ones (publicly recorded) to have previously observed its effects on humans. But, again, creating test samples is a long way from weaponising it, testing it thoroughly and understanding it, let alone delivering it as a targeted hit. I’ll bet that there are not many outfits in the world competent enough to do that, get away with that.

I'm still looking for a plausible motive. Looking tough for the electorate at home smells wrong if it is true that we can retaliate in meaningful ways. I don't think this is a miscalculation that Putin & co would make. If Anyone-but-Russia wanted to damage Russia though, they found a great way to do it.

Fill your boots. It would appear to be a win-win for him; HMG can’t retaliate in any meaningful way. Do you think they'll have the spine to reject dirty Russian money that they and the city/establishment have been happy to court and lap up?

 

[teqniq]

Even May couldn't say the Russians made this nerve agent; the best she could manage was the Russians developed it.

Seems unlikely to me that this has been much of a secret for all of the intervening fifty years; if we can ID it, we can surely make it. And if we can make it, undoubtedly others can too.

I'm still looking for a plausible motive. Looking tough for the electorate at home smells wrong if it is true that we can retaliate in meaningful ways. I don't think this is a miscalculation that Putin & co would make. If Anyone-but-Russia wanted to damage Russia though, they found a great way to do it.

I would have thought the motive was fairly obvious - if you think as do I that it was the Russians. Read the Chatham House analysis I posted, they think the UK is weak, quite possibly not without due cause and they want to send a message both as a warning to exiles/opponents that they will never be safe anywhere and to the UK government, something along the lines of 'what are you going to do about this?'

 

[maomao]

May's fucking mugged herself off giving Putin an ultimatum on this. There is no way to proceed without looking like an even more useless cunt than she did at the start of it all.

 

[Badgers]

I just heard (on the radio) that The move to freeze assets of Russian oligarchs would be welcomed by Russia as they want them and their money back in Russia.

 

[2hats]

I just heard (on the radio) that The move to freeze assets of Russian oligarchs would be welcomed by Russia as they want them and their money back in Russia.

This is covered in the Guardian article above.

 

[Badgers]

This is covered in the Guardian article above.

Cheers

 

[DotCommunist]

And now the Russians have gone too far.

 

[Badgers]

And now the Russians have gone too far.

So war then?

 

[DotCommunist]

So war then?

they put one of ours in the morgue, we put one of thiers in the.....er...worse than morgue

 

[2hats]

they put one of ours in the morgue, we put one of thiers in the.....er...worse than morgue

They put one of ours in a sports bag and fifteen of theirs in the morgue...

 

[not-bono-ever]

I can imagine the conversations in the kremlin - We need a PR stunt to assure my victory in the upcoming election. maybe topping some foreign based defector or expat we don't need, big stylee, use some nerve gas or some shit. make it messy and shizzle

In Germany - No - merkel is a hard hitter and will kick off.
France - Nopes, Macron is ambitious and will play this to his advantage.
USA-like lol, we have that covered already bro'
Belgium - who the fuck wants to live in Belgium.
UK ? - May is proper rubbish and even her dog hates her.

UK it is then

 

[DotCommunist]

Russia’s ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, Alexander Shulgin

eh?

 

[2hats]

eh?

Yeah, that really is the name of the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the OPCW.

 

[not-bono-ever]

the ultimate chemical weapon...

 

[not-bono-ever]

Discreet calls have been made to see how much support there is for a move to exclude Russian banks and financials from the swift payment system. I gather support has been far less than lukewarm and the Bank of England is holding its head in its hands as we speak. Cash is king as they say.

Its been done with Iran and NK but Russia is a rather different fish

May Plots to Punish Russia as Crisis Over Poisoned Spy Deepens

"In the category of responses the prime minister can speak about publicly, there’s little the U.K. can do alone. Russia expects diplomatic expulsions, but pan-national sanctions would involve months of lengthy negotiations with other countries. More drastic measures such as cutting Russian banks off from SWIFT, a global messaging system that facilitates the transfer of payments between thousands of banks, are unlikely, one person close to the Kremlin said.
Britain hasn’t been in touch with SWIFT and, in any case, the organization wouldn’t disconnect banks unless EU members decided unanimously to impose sanctions and directed financial messaging providers to isolate a national banking network, as happened with Iran in 2012"

Computer says no

 

[DotCommunist]

mental images of 'Putin laughing at us' about this sort of thing, might want to consider whether some of their own reactions provide additional comic fodder.

'lots of 'we' and 'us' flying about suddenly eh.

Personally I was mulling it over last night as to wether I should feel guilty about enjoying this all. I mean, all of the people involved are terrible people so I think its ok

 

[IC3D]

Assassination drones called Maybots could crush our enemy's in the Kremlin and be useful clout in brexit negotiations

 

[not-bono-ever]

'lots of 'we' and 'us' flying about suddenly eh.

Personally I was mulling it over last night as to wether I should feel guilty about enjoying this all. I mean, all of the people involved are terrible people so I think its ok

This is my quandary also DC

ETA - not daughter collateral obvs as per posts below

 

[Magnus McGinty]

including the daughter?

 

[teqniq]

Well on the face of it his daughter would appear blameless and if she survives may be invalided for the rest of her life.

 

[kebabking]

'lots of 'we' and 'us' flying about suddenly eh.

Personally I was mulling it over last night as to wether I should feel guilty about enjoying this all. I mean, all of the people involved are terrible people so I think its ok

Does that include the staff at the coffee house our friends gave their contaminated notes and change to, or the person who sat in the seats they vacated, or the off duty Doctor who went to help them in the street and who - almost certainly - got their contaminated vommit on her clothes and skin?

Does it include the minimum wage ancillary staff at the hospital who have been dealing with their contaminated clothes, sheets, medical waste?

You have a very fine brain - it makes me weep to sometimes see the rubbish you say without engaging it.

 

[likesfish]

they put one of ours in the morgue, we put one of thiers in the.....er...worse than morgue

hull's nice at this time of year

 

[teqniq]

Oh and the copper. I know it's line of duty stuff but I bet he never expected to be poisoned with a nerve agent during the course of his job

 

[DotCommunist]

all right, apart from all the innocent people I hadn't thought of then.

 

[not-bono-ever]

hmmmmmmm. they do have a point

 

[AnnaKarpik]

Seems to me that you need to have a certain set of beliefs about Russia and Putin for this to make sense.

I'll just throw this in too; Russia is certified as having destroyed their chemical weapons capabilities The UK government is manufacturing its nerve agent case for ‘action’ on Russia

It was notable how little appetite the British had for having a go at Russia when NATO generals were on TV trying to terrify us with Russian troop movements during the western backed crisis in Ukraine. Perhaps this will stiffen our resolve.

 

[YouSir]

Seems to me that you need to have a certain set of beliefs about Russia and Putin for this to make sense.

I'll just throw this in too; Russia is certified as having destroyed their chemical weapons capabilities The UK government is manufacturing its nerve agent case for ‘action’ on Russia

It was notable how little appetite the British had for having a go at Russia when NATO generals were on TV trying to terrify us with Russian troop movements during the western backed crisis in Ukraine. Perhaps this will stiffen our resolve.

What action are they supposed to be propagandising for? The US has no interest, the EU is hardly likely to follow the UK's lead and May will do shit all by herself. I've seen people saying that this is all Iraq style buildup to give the state a free hand, but to do what? Granted, the old Red Menace stuff might be useful domestically to make up a national security line to stand on, but who's going to rig something like this to bolster May?

 

[elbows]

What action are they supposed to be propagandising for? The US has no interest, the EU is hardly likely to follow the UK's lead and May will do shit all by herself. I've seen people saying that this is all Iraq style buildup to give the state a free hand, but to do what? Granted, the old Red Menace stuff might be useful domestically to make up a national security line to stand on, but who's going to rig something like this to bolster May?

I guess time will tell, has anyone combined this sort of thinking with fears about a plot to derail Brexit yet?

 

[not-bono-ever]

Craig Murray, Snowden , Israel, Porton down and false flags - If this was a scripted into a movie , it would star Lewis Collins